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Old 04/07/2009, 11:55 AM   #101
Randy Holmes-Farley
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You're welcome.

Good luck.


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Old 04/07/2009, 12:27 PM   #102
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After bleach washes, acid washes and adding Drayno to neutralize the acid I have changed out the tap water it is sitting in aobut 6-8 times over a few days. Despite all this there is still algae clinging to the rock (albeit it is dead and white). Even scrubbing with a toothbrush doesn't take it all off. Can I leave whatever doesn't readily come off and the snails will get it or is that bad?


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Old 04/07/2009, 12:45 PM   #103
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Quote:
Originally posted by Randy Holmes-Farley
this is coming out of acid or bleach?
If from bleach, you need to do a lot of rinsing or dechlorinating.
Randy, besides smelling the rock, any rule of thumb on how much cleansing the rock will need to remove the bleach?

would 3-5 rinsings and a few days w/ a dechlorinator be adequate. Obviously I will test/smell the rock, but I'm trying to figure out how much time to allot to this project.

I would let it dry first, but it's been raining and will continue raining all week...


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Old 04/07/2009, 01:55 PM   #104
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Removing all of the organic debris can be very difficult. I'd just live with the leftover algae threads. They should decay on their own when the rock is in a running system.


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Old 04/07/2009, 03:00 PM   #105
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thats what im doing now.not to worried about the agea at this point the rock pretty damn clean.im going to make up salt water tonight to get the cycling started.
thanks every one for all your help,what a ordeal that was.


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Old 04/07/2009, 03:08 PM   #106
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Hopefully the problem organisms won't come back.


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Old 04/07/2009, 11:48 PM   #107
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never really had agea problems,just REALLY bad aiptasias


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Old 04/07/2009, 11:55 PM   #108
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sorry,gwen that was for you.time to pass the thread keys
good luck and again thanx guys


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Old 04/09/2009, 07:47 PM   #109
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Okay...I'm confused....I've seen three different Acid/Water Ratios...

1:10
1:5
1:1

What should I be using...I've finished the bleach bath and done a few rinses...tested for Chlorine...0.0 there...now ready for Acid Bath, Rinse, Base ....oh and why not use a strong Kalk Solution for this....that's pH 12.0?


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Old 04/09/2009, 08:10 PM   #110
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The more water in the solution, the less dangerous it is to handle. The more acid, the faster the rock gets cleaned, and perhaps more cleaning gets done. I would add one part of acid to 10 parts of water, personally, but they'll all work.

A strong base rinse with kalk would be okay, but other solutions will do more neutralization with less liquid, and avoid any possible precipitation. I'd just add baking soda and test the pH now and then, personally. I think it's the safest to handle.


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Old 04/09/2009, 08:32 PM   #111
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So to be clear...you add baking soda to the acid bath until the pH tests in the proper range?


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Old 04/10/2009, 06:36 AM   #112
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oh and why not use a strong Kalk Solution for this....that's pH 12.0?

In terms of neutralizing acid, baking soda is as good or better than limewater. While the pH of limewater may be 12, you can add solid baking soda without adding a lot of water volume, and a gallon of limewater is only as good for neutralization as maybe 4 teaspoons of baking soda. You also will not overshoot the pH with baking soda.


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Old 04/10/2009, 05:44 PM   #113
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Thanks Randy


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Old 04/13/2009, 05:13 AM   #114
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Good luck.


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Old 05/13/2009, 10:12 PM   #115
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I, too, joined the rock bleaching/acid party and I have a few questions. I apologize if any of these have been previously answered.

1. I'm satisfied with the bleaching - I did two rounds 1/10 solution overnight, and while things aren't completely white and sterile looking, I'm ready to move onto acid. Besides rinsing and letting it dry, do I NEED to dechlorinate or let the rocks dry out for weeks before going to the acid? Or is that step necessary only if I was going bleach-only? I'm hoping I can just let it dry out and move on with the process.

2. I asked the lady at the pool store about Muratic Acid/Hydrochloric Acid, and she gave me what she told me was the same stuff only in solid form for safety reasons. I assumed it was chemically the same stuff, but now, looking at the ingredients, it's 93% Sodium Bisulfate. Is this an acceptable substitute? And if so, how much of this dry stuff would you recommend me add to the water for my solution?

Thanks everyone for your help!


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Old 05/13/2009, 11:51 PM   #116
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Eventually you need to get rid of any residual chlorine, however it does not need to be done before an acid treatment. I would not use the sodium bisulfate. It is a totally different chemical.

Muriatic acid is normally available at ACE Hardwarer HD and Lowes or any place that sells many concrete products. White vinegar is a good second choice but it would be more expensive to use and would take longer soaks. It would be easier and safer to handle though.

Sani-flush is a toilet bowl cleaner that is called a bubbling bowl cleaner. It is a bubbling bowl cleaner as it is about half sodium sulfate and half a mix of fragrences, a surfactant, [U]sodium carbonate[U] and water. The live rock would bubble, but I know of no one having used sodium sulfate for surface removal of calcium carbonate from live rock. I would save it to use as toilet bowl cleaner.



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Old 05/14/2009, 11:58 AM   #117
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I agree about the sodium bisulfate, and the dechlorination step. Commercial bleach is sodium hypochlorite, and it doesn't evaporate away. I'd use lots of Prime or some similar product.


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Old 05/14/2009, 05:02 PM   #118
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I have a question for you guys. I got some free rock that just had a ridiculous amount of hair algae on it. It was free so I took it and figured I would cook it until the algae disappeared. I put it in a tub with a heater and powerhead and let it cook. Months went by and the algae didn't get any better. So I took the rock out of the buckets to dry it out. Now it's dry but there is still a lot of white dried algae on the rocks. How can I get this off? I had a tub with 5 gals of vinegar that I used to clean pumps and skimmers so I tossed all the rock in there today. It's bubbling a lot. I'm hoping it will dissolve some of the left over algae. Is this the best way to accomplish this or would something else work better?


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Old 05/14/2009, 05:10 PM   #119
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Vinegar is the safest way to help rid phosphate and heavy metals. It may work on the organic matter as well. I would use bleach to brake the organic matter down myself and repeat until the organic matter is gone. Soak the rock in clean water with chlorine remover get rid of the bleach. Then soak it in the vinegar to get rid of the phosphate and heavy metals. The organic matter can contain phosphate and heavy metals as well. Soak the rock after treating with vinegar in clean water to get rid of the vinegar or this will cause bacterial blooms.


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Old 05/14/2009, 05:13 PM   #120
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I edited my post above. It's been a long day.


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Old 05/14/2009, 05:38 PM   #121
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With safety precautions, post-treatment with weak organic acids such as acetic (vinegar) will neutralize the NaOH, and volatilize the chlorine from residual hypochlorite.

True though without the mild acid being used the chlorine would not evaporate. However, the vinegar will release the chlorine as a gas. The safety precaustions are ventilation as chlorine gas is toxic.

The reason that people are told not to mix chlorine cleaning products with other cleaning products is that the other cleaning products may contain an acid thereby the chlorine will be volatized (turned into gas). A chlorine cleaning product that has an ammonia cleaning product added will result in the release of chloroamine gas which is also toxic.

The best methodoly is do the cleaning/soaking out doors. add the vinegar to your tbe already filled with water and leave the immediatte area for a few minutes.


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Old 05/14/2009, 05:48 PM   #122
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Thanks Fatman and Bertoni.

I'll pick up the real stuff from a hardware store tonight.

Bertoni, are you saying I should dechlorinate prior to the acid bath? Or just make sure to dechlorinate prior to sticking the rocks back in the aquarium?

I just want to be super sure since this is not at all my area of expertise and I don't want to do anything dangerous with mixing chemicals.


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Old 05/14/2009, 06:35 PM   #123
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Oops - I just noticed your newest post, Fatman, which I think clears up some of my concerns.

I'll do my mixing out in the garage then get outta there for a while


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Old 05/14/2009, 06:46 PM   #124
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Here is a recipe I found a little while back on bleaching rock. I personally haven’t tried it but I’m told that it works well. The ratio is a lot stronger than mentioned in other posts but it does use a lot baking soda to neutralize the rock so feel free to adjust the ratios.

3 days 50/50 bleach water
3 days freshwater soak (I do a water change every day, probably unnecessary but can't hurt!)
3 days 2 lbs. baking soda soak
3 weeks drying out

If you use a fan you can speed the drying out process by a week or so.


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Old 05/14/2009, 07:12 PM   #125
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Like Bertoni pointed out common house hold bleach does not evaporate, and it takes very little chlorine to wipe out a tank.

I can see no benefit that the baking soda would provide.


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