can i do this with out any proplems from any one?

customcolor · 03/16/2009, 01:49 PM

can i do the calender from cafepress.com like i had it but with a differant name just so the club has doest get in troube if any pics are false and price is cost so no prophits to any one but cafepress? i know i jumped when i did the shirts and such but no one had problems with the whole calender idea when bill asked in the thread when i was getting pics from all you if i was doing a calender

kesslerkid01 · 03/16/2009, 02:13 PM

I beleive no one knew that you were or are selling for a profit and who makes the profit Dave I think your idea is kool and yes you did work hard on it but what are you going to do if someone is that unhappy with what you are doing with said profit or the pictures them self like what facebook is going throu right now who really owns the pictures or who owns the rights to the products you are distrubting

yaitisme · 03/16/2009, 02:16 PM

Maybe if we were a real club or you were using the RC name/logo. I have no problem.

Although if there's a tricked out Bentley with sweet paint cruising around K-town I'm gonna think somethings fishy (pun intended) and I'm gonna want a cut of the action.

customcolor · 03/16/2009, 02:22 PM

the calenders wher not having a profhit on them to begin with. the price that was on them was what cafepress charges.

customcolor · 03/16/2009, 02:32 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by yaitisme
Maybe if we were a real club or you were using the RC name/logo. I have no problem.

Although if there's a tricked out Bentley with sweet paint cruising around K-town I'm gonna think somethings fishy (pun intended) and I'm gonna want a cut of the action.

i dont do bentlys. i would be to afraid to scratch it. paint one yes i would. calender wise i woul just call it a reef calender.

mark_mo · 03/16/2009, 03:50 PM

I feel really badly that all of this had gone down. You worked so hard!
It sounds to me from the previous post -- you'd just need to change it so it's "your" calendar (not FVRC) and then not sell it via this forum. Maybe just send out emails to people or PM people who are interested

johnanddawn · 03/16/2009, 04:33 PM

wow i missed something while at work today, what happened to the original thread - rc ban and remove it?
I personally thought the calendar was a cool idea and was going to order one

cubsare1 · 03/16/2009, 04:35 PM

You still have my permission to use the picture I sent in, yes it is my picture from my camera and I took it

RCS · 03/16/2009, 04:39 PM

Dave, are you making any money from this at all? If not, I don't see what the big deal is. Anyone who gave a picture knew what it was for and pretty much consent is implied. Anyone that's throwing a hissy fit...whatever, let is know and I'm sure there are more pictures available to fill the calendar. I've probably got a few hundred I can dig through and maybe pull up a couple good ones.

If you're actually making money from it, that may be a little different. I can't imagine it being that much from the small group of people we have here, but still, better safe than sorry in that case.

I missed pretty much anything that happened up until this point, but I'd like to hear the story if you're bored and want to PM me.

ZOKU · 03/16/2009, 04:49 PM

I don't see what the big deal is either...?? Everyone consented to offering Dave photos for the calendar. If the profits are Dave's... is there possible drama because the photos weren't his to begin with?? If that's the case... again, I don't see the issue? Everyone knew they weren't Dave's photos when they e-mailed them to him.

He's already stated in a previous post the calendars were not created for profit. It seems like he's charging whatever CafePress charges... doesn't seem like there should be much of an issue to me.

But I missed everything up until this point, too.

siropa · 03/16/2009, 04:59 PM

the sum up as I saw it unfold. just my perception, and by no means guaranteed to be accurate:

1) improper use of the FVRC name without group permission

2) posting something on RC that was to make a profit, but that the proceeds didn't directly go to the club. this equals commercial entity in the eyes of RC and is prohibited.

*i'm also going to add that this is just my perception of the events and in no way, shape or form means I agree or disagree with any of this.

sunfish11 · 03/16/2009, 05:01 PM

I don't have a problem as long as Dave only recoups what he put in to the project and sells at cost. It can't have the club logo and have a member make a profit off of it. That wouldn't be ethical. If the club was organized then well, the club would make profits. But we aren't and don't plan on it, so we can't do anything as a club to make a profit either. That is just the way it is.

Lisa

cubsare1 · 03/16/2009, 05:01 PM

I believe the problem was with the other items that were offered, he was making no profit on the calanders.

jlinzmaier · 03/16/2009, 05:11 PM

Jeremy

sunfish11 · 03/16/2009, 05:24 PM

You should stop this Jeremy. You are taking this to far.

Lisa

jlinzmaier · 03/16/2009, 05:30 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by sunfish11
You should stop this Jeremy. You are taking this to far.

Lisa

I've edited simply because I don't want to get booted but my points were entirely valid and anyone that's seen his posts would agree.

Now I know what RCS was talking about when he said it doesn't take formal structure for a club to get too political.

Jeremy

sunfish11 · 03/16/2009, 05:35 PM

Actually he has been a member for many years (at least 4 maybe more) and over that time he has helped people out with drilling tanks and other things. He used to participate constantly but he is in school and probably has some other things going on in his life. We all go through ups and downs in our participation level based on our commitments and current level of obsession with the hobby. His points were mostly valid weather you like to admit it or not. I had a couple of questions for Dave after I looked at Cafe Press last night as well. Granted I was going to PM them to him rather than throw a post up.

Lisa

Fishcrazy06 · 03/16/2009, 05:40 PM

Jason has been a member for quite some time and has gone out of his way in the past to help many of the club members out. Quite a few in matter of fact. I think all of your posts towards Jason are quite vicious and uncalled for. He even said in his original post that it wasn't totally directed at dave and he commented on how he thinks Dave is trying to do good towards the club. Everyone has their opinions. But I think you completely crossed the line on both of them posts. You may have edited them but I am sure enough people read them before you edited them.

Eric

jlinzmaier · 03/16/2009, 05:42 PM

Obviously you haven't seen or been aware of what I have. There have been some malicious outright attempts by him to stir up trouble. Maybe he's been an alright guy in the past but from what I've seen I have other opinions.

I do agree with the info that he posted, it's merely the way he did it and that's what I'm so ****ed about.

Jeremy

sunfish11 · 03/16/2009, 05:47 PM

Well get over it and keep the personal attacks off the Club Board. You have stirred up far more trouble with your last couple of posts than I ever saw Jason stir up.

Lisa

jlinzmaier · 03/16/2009, 05:47 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Fishcrazy06
Jason has been a member for quite some time and has gone out of his way in the past to help many of the club members out. Quite a few in matter of fact. I think all of your posts towards Jason are quite vicious and uncalled for. He even said in his original post that it wasn't totally directed at dave and he commented on how he thinks Dave is trying to do good towards the club. Everyone has their opinions. But I think you completely crossed the line on both of them posts. You may have edited them but I am sure enough people read them before you edited them.

Eric

Yes Eric, your right. I was way over the top - nothing more than heat of the moment. My sincere apologies to anyone I offended.

I do want to apologize to jmcarcz and I'll start a thread with that. I'm just frustrated at how he went about this. It could have been done much more tactfully and not with universal dictatorship like punishment to Dave.

Jeremy

jmkarcz · 03/16/2009, 05:52 PM

I'll keep this breif, as too many words seem to bother Jeremy.

I read, re-read, and read my post befor submitting it to ensure I was not saying anything disrespectul toward Dave and his efforts. I actually complimented him on his effort.

My post was not whether it was right or wrong.

Anyone who actually read it would see that.

I also point out that anything that identifies itself with the club should have the majority of the clubs approval. I didn't feel that this had been given the due process that it needed...

Now that I have given lots of one liners you can quote and take out of context... here is another one...

THIS IS NOT YOUR CLUB. IT IS NOT MY CLUB. ITS EVERYONES CLUB.

My post was in the interest of the club at large, not 2 people.

If DAVE and JEREMY feel I have wronged them in a personal way... PM me you phone number and I will call and we can talk.

I would also remind a few people of something that Lisa brings up inadvertantly. There are few that are left that have been aroung since the beginning. I haven't been, I came a short while after. I have long waited for the club to form into so much more than it is... but have you ever asked why so many of those names don't post any longer??? Did they leave...? or are they just sitting back and reading and watching for things to be done a better way?

Now here's the challenge... I was subjective in my post, please only respond if you can recripricate...

jlinzmaier · 03/16/2009, 06:00 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by jmkarcz
I'll keep this breif, as too many words seem to bother Jeremy.

I read, re-read, and read my post befor submitting it to ensure I was not saying anything disrespectul toward Dave and his efforts. I actually complimented him on his effort.

My post was not whether it was right or wrong.

Anyone who actually read it would see that.

I also point out that anything that identifies itself with the club should have the majority of the clubs approval. I didn't feel that this had been given the due process that it needed...

Now that I have given lots of one liners you can quote and take out of context... here is another one...

THIS IS NOT YOUR CLUB. IT IS NOT MY CLUB. ITS EVERYONES CLUB.

My post was in the interest of the club at large, not 2 people.

If DAVE and JEREMY feel I have wronged them in a personal way... PM me you phone number and I will call and we can talk.

I would also remind a few people of something that Lisa brings up inadvertantly. There are few that are left that have been aroung since the beginning. I haven't been, I came a short while after. I have long waited for the club to form into so much more than it is... but have you ever asked why so many of those names don't post any longer??? Did they leave...? or are they just sitting back and reading and watching for things to be done a better way?

Now here's the challenge... I was subjective in my post, please only respond if you can recripricate...

I'm done with this issue. You've said enough and done enough for people to see your true colors. I need not reciprocate anything, you say it for me.

Jeremy

customcolor · 03/16/2009, 06:11 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by siropa
the sum up as I saw it unfold. just my perception, and by no means guaranteed to be accurate:

1) improper use of the FVRC name without group permission

2) posting something on RC that was to make a profit, but that the proceeds didn't directly go to the club. this equals commercial entity in the eyes of RC and is prohibited.

kinda sums it up...even though this did kinda break my heart cuz the work i put into it, im a very cheerful guy and i dont hold grudges to anyone.

i did take a jump on other items that i thought other people may have wanted to get just to show there suport for the club and to say to everyone else that saw the other items eather worn or at home on a wall " hey im in a club for my work of art tank that i put togeather and im proud!" but yes i even staited that there was a mark up on most of the stuff by eather $1 or $2max....except the calendars. what i would have like to have done with the extra cash was to donate 90% to a save the reef .org website. but there was some controversy in the mater cuz like i said ...."i jumped" and i did bring that part up to anyone.....in which case it was brought to beerguy what was happening and the hole thread was shut down....

the whole thing was to be just the calenders and lots of you agreed on that ....i thank you for all the pics and such....but i went to far i guess.

yes the calenders where no profit what so ever! even though i made a fvrc logo that i even used as an avatar for a wile and also put on a cake during the meet at my house a year ago (only 3 of you guys saw it because i forgot to bring it out

) so i thought that was ok to use for the front cover of the calender and on some other items too...it said ....."it's not obsession....really!" and on some other items it just said FOX VALLEY REEF CLUB.

what im asking now is it ok to change the name of the calender so it doesnt say fox valley reef club on it and still have it availible for everyone here to buy "for NO profit!" just like that was staited in the origanal post to get some pics....if you read befor you posted pics you would have seen the first 2 posts after my first one on that tread...bill asked if it was for a calender and i said yes....later some one asked how much and i promised it was for cost....

i know lots of you realy liked the idea and gave many pics for me to choose from. but i will not offer any thing else on that store even if its for no profit to me or any one else besides the venders web site. unless i get an abroval for the calenders

by the way dont mind the spelling

jandlms · 03/16/2009, 07:18 PM

Jmkarcz was one of the local hobbyists that helped start this club. He has continually helped many members (newby and veteran alike) with varied projects from system design to tank drilling. He has ALWAYS been there for club members in need. NEVER has he attempted to instigate an argument on this forum. Anyone who thinks that he has is either deluding him/herself or completely mistaken.
The whole initial issue with Dave's nice attempt at providing calendars and other commercial items was raised by myself not Jason. Jason only jumped in with some valid points that he has learned in his current business classes. Any issues with what happened and why the thread was removed should be directed at me and the mods at ReefCentral. Any further criticism against Jason regarding this issue only further diminishes the critic on this board. I can be reached at any time should you wish to discuss why this whole issue was not appropriate (heartfelt and a great idea though it was) or appropriately handled. PM me and we can exchange phone numbers to handle this issue off of the club's board and time.

03/16/2009, 01:49 PM	#1
customcolor Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: kaukauna, wi. Posts: 3,881	can i do this with out any proplems from any one? can i do the calender from cafepress.com like i had it but with a differant name just so the club has doest get in troube if any pics are false and price is cost so no prophits to any one but cafepress? i know i jumped when i did the shirts and such but no one had problems with the whole calender idea when bill asked in the thread when i was getting pics from all you if i was doing a calender __________________ PLEASE DONT USE GREAT STUFF (THE YELLOW STUFF) IN YOUR TANK........USE POND FOAM (THE BLACK STUFF).. I BEG YOU! Great stuff====$5 a can 24-48 hour cure Epoxy to cover it====little as $5 for small projects or up to $100+ for larger projects and another 24-48 hour cure I hope you covered it well cuz if you didnt it will start to break down in a few months sand is another added cost to cover up the yellow. Pond foams====$9-$15 a can 24-48 hour cure DONE! You can cover it with sand if you want to (YOU DONT HAVE TO) though but thats added cost again Current Tank Info: 75 gal under way

03/16/2009, 02:13 PM	#2
kesslerkid01 Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Kaukauna Posts: 246	I beleive no one knew that you were or are selling for a profit and who makes the profit Dave I think your idea is kool and yes you did work hard on it but what are you going to do if someone is that unhappy with what you are doing with said profit or the pictures them self like what facebook is going throu right now who really owns the pictures or who owns the rights to the products you are distrubting __________________ its nice to be important but its more important to be nice Current Tank Info: 125 REEF,72 BOW FRESH,2-55 FRESH,32 HEX FRESH,SEVERAL SMALL TANKS.AND A PARTRIDGE IN A PARE TREE

03/16/2009, 02:22 PM	#4
customcolor Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: kaukauna, wi. Posts: 3,881	the calenders wher not having a profhit on them to begin with. the price that was on them was what cafepress charges. __________________ PLEASE DONT USE GREAT STUFF (THE YELLOW STUFF) IN YOUR TANK........USE POND FOAM (THE BLACK STUFF).. I BEG YOU! Great stuff====$5 a can 24-48 hour cure Epoxy to cover it====little as $5 for small projects or up to $100+ for larger projects and another 24-48 hour cure I hope you covered it well cuz if you didnt it will start to break down in a few months sand is another added cost to cover up the yellow. Pond foams====$9-$15 a can 24-48 hour cure DONE! You can cover it with sand if you want to (YOU DONT HAVE TO) though but thats added cost again Current Tank Info: 75 gal under way

03/16/2009, 03:50 PM	#6
mark_mo Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Oshkosh Posts: 200	I feel really badly that all of this had gone down. You worked so hard! It sounds to me from the previous post -- you'd just need to change it so it's "your" calendar (not FVRC) and then not sell it via this forum. Maybe just send out emails to people or PM people who are interested __________________ Molly & Mark Current Tank Info: 90 gallon reef; 20 gallon reef

03/16/2009, 04:49 PM	#10
ZOKU Resident Ninja Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Oshkosh, WI Posts: 560	I don't see what the big deal is either...?? Everyone consented to offering Dave photos for the calendar. If the profits are Dave's... is there possible drama because the photos weren't his to begin with?? If that's the case... again, I don't see the issue? Everyone knew they weren't Dave's photos when they e-mailed them to him. He's already stated in a previous post the calendars were not created for profit. It seems like he's charging whatever CafePress charges... doesn't seem like there should be much of an issue to me. But I missed everything up until this point, too. __________________ - SCOTT. Check out my homepage to see my build! Current Tank Info: 40B / Super Reef Octopus SRO2000INT / 35-gal. acrylic sump+refuge / 120W LED lighting / Water Blaster 3000 Return... IN PROGRESS!

03/16/2009, 02:16 PM	#3
yaitisme Moved On Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: North East Wisconsin Posts: 1,216	Maybe if we were a real club or you were using the RC name/logo. I have no problem. Although if there's a tricked out Bentley with sweet paint cruising around K-town I'm gonna think somethings fishy (pun intended) and I'm gonna want a cut of the action.

03/16/2009, 04:33 PM	#7
johnanddawn Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: wisconsin Posts: 733	wow i missed something while at work today, what happened to the original thread - rc ban and remove it? I personally thought the calendar was a cool idea and was going to order one

03/16/2009, 04:35 PM	#8
cubsare1 Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: menasha Posts: 523	You still have my permission to use the picture I sent in, yes it is my picture from my camera and I took it

03/16/2009, 04:39 PM	#9
RCS Moved On Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Neenah, WI Posts: 2,880	Dave, are you making any money from this at all? If not, I don't see what the big deal is. Anyone who gave a picture knew what it was for and pretty much consent is implied. Anyone that's throwing a hissy fit...whatever, let is know and I'm sure there are more pictures available to fill the calendar. I've probably got a few hundred I can dig through and maybe pull up a couple good ones. If you're actually making money from it, that may be a little different. I can't imagine it being that much from the small group of people we have here, but still, better safe than sorry in that case. I missed pretty much anything that happened up until this point, but I'd like to hear the story if you're bored and want to PM me.

03/16/2009, 04:59 PM	#11
siropa Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Neenah, WI Posts: 2,529	the sum up as I saw it unfold. just my perception, and by no means guaranteed to be accurate: 1) improper use of the FVRC name without group permission 2) posting something on RC that was to make a profit, but that the proceeds didn't directly go to the club. this equals commercial entity in the eyes of RC and is prohibited. *i'm also going to add that this is just my perception of the events and in no way, shape or form means I agree or disagree with any of this. __________________ See red house for pics. Current Tank Info: 275 reef, 75 FOWLR, 60g frag

03/16/2009, 05:01 PM	#12
sunfish11 Premium Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Weyauwega, WI Posts: 2,365	I don't have a problem as long as Dave only recoups what he put in to the project and sells at cost. It can't have the club logo and have a member make a profit off of it. That wouldn't be ethical. If the club was organized then well, the club would make profits. But we aren't and don't plan on it, so we can't do anything as a club to make a profit either. That is just the way it is. Lisa

03/16/2009, 05:11 PM	#14
jlinzmaier Premium Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Edgar Wisconsin Posts: 2,136	Jeremy Last edited by jlinzmaier; 03/16/2009 at 05:29 PM.

03/16/2009, 05:24 PM	#15
sunfish11 Premium Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Weyauwega, WI Posts: 2,365	You should stop this Jeremy. You are taking this to far. Lisa

03/16/2009, 05:35 PM	#17
sunfish11 Premium Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Weyauwega, WI Posts: 2,365	Actually he has been a member for many years (at least 4 maybe more) and over that time he has helped people out with drilling tanks and other things. He used to participate constantly but he is in school and probably has some other things going on in his life. We all go through ups and downs in our participation level based on our commitments and current level of obsession with the hobby. His points were mostly valid weather you like to admit it or not. I had a couple of questions for Dave after I looked at Cafe Press last night as well. Granted I was going to PM them to him rather than throw a post up. Lisa

03/16/2009, 05:40 PM	#18
Fishcrazy06 Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Wisconsin Posts: 1,548	Jason has been a member for quite some time and has gone out of his way in the past to help many of the club members out. Quite a few in matter of fact. I think all of your posts towards Jason are quite vicious and uncalled for. He even said in his original post that it wasn't totally directed at dave and he commented on how he thinks Dave is trying to do good towards the club. Everyone has their opinions. But I think you completely crossed the line on both of them posts. You may have edited them but I am sure enough people read them before you edited them. Eric

03/16/2009, 05:42 PM	#19
jlinzmaier Premium Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Edgar Wisconsin Posts: 2,136	Obviously you haven't seen or been aware of what I have. There have been some malicious outright attempts by him to stir up trouble. Maybe he's been an alright guy in the past but from what I've seen I have other opinions. I do agree with the info that he posted, it's merely the way he did it and that's what I'm so ****ed about. Jeremy

03/16/2009, 05:47 PM	#20
sunfish11 Premium Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Weyauwega, WI Posts: 2,365	Well get over it and keep the personal attacks off the Club Board. You have stirred up far more trouble with your last couple of posts than I ever saw Jason stir up. Lisa

03/16/2009, 05:52 PM	#22
jmkarcz Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2003 Posts: 2,727	I'll keep this breif, as too many words seem to bother Jeremy. I read, re-read, and read my post befor submitting it to ensure I was not saying anything disrespectul toward Dave and his efforts. I actually complimented him on his effort. My post was not whether it was right or wrong. Anyone who actually read it would see that. I also point out that anything that identifies itself with the club should have the majority of the clubs approval. I didn't feel that this had been given the due process that it needed... Now that I have given lots of one liners you can quote and take out of context... here is another one... THIS IS NOT YOUR CLUB. IT IS NOT MY CLUB. ITS EVERYONES CLUB. My post was in the interest of the club at large, not 2 people. If DAVE and JEREMY feel I have wronged them in a personal way... PM me you phone number and I will call and we can talk. I would also remind a few people of something that Lisa brings up inadvertantly. There are few that are left that have been aroung since the beginning. I haven't been, I came a short while after. I have long waited for the club to form into so much more than it is... but have you ever asked why so many of those names don't post any longer??? Did they leave...? or are they just sitting back and reading and watching for things to be done a better way? Now here's the challenge... I was subjective in my post, please only respond if you can recripricate...

03/16/2009, 07:18 PM	#25
jandlms Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Green Bay, WI Posts: 844	Jmkarcz was one of the local hobbyists that helped start this club. He has continually helped many members (newby and veteran alike) with varied projects from system design to tank drilling. He has ALWAYS been there for club members in need. NEVER has he attempted to instigate an argument on this forum. Anyone who thinks that he has is either deluding him/herself or completely mistaken. The whole initial issue with Dave's nice attempt at providing calendars and other commercial items was raised by myself not Jason. Jason only jumped in with some valid points that he has learned in his current business classes. Any issues with what happened and why the thread was removed should be directed at me and the mods at ReefCentral. Any further criticism against Jason regarding this issue only further diminishes the critic on this board. I can be reached at any time should you wish to discuss why this whole issue was not appropriate (heartfelt and a great idea though it was) or appropriately handled. PM me and we can exchange phone numbers to handle this issue off of the club's board and time.