New to Pipes

Dizzle63 · 04/28/2009, 04:38 PM

I am new to pipefish and wanted to get some information. I have read that they are difficult to wean onto prepared foods and that they do not like being around stinging organisms. What corals or anemones are safe or not safe with pipes? How well do they do in a relatively high flow environment (45X turnover)? Do they attach themselves like seahorses, or do they swim freely? Of the commonly available species, which is the most suitable for a mixed reef? Thank you in advance!

landlord · 04/29/2009, 04:58 AM

I would say that dragonface pipes are the most likely to be able to hold onto structures. At least when I had mine they scooted around in contact with the liverock.

They were housed in an SPS tank stocked full without any stinging issues. There was also a GBTA in the tank with them, no problems there either.

I found the hardest part about pipes is acquiring healthy specimens that make it past a couple weeks. I have gone through about 6 differnt pipes (3 species) and the only one to make it and thrive is my current yellow multibanded. He is a fat hog, chows down on frozen cyclops, swims with the bigger kids, etc...

Good Luck

landlord

wolfman1973 · 04/29/2009, 10:41 AM

the dragon faced pipes are one of the best for a mixed reef. you need to have lots of pods in there for them to eat because it is hard to get them to accept anything else. i keep mine in a mixed reef and they are doing great,in fact my male is carying his 5th batch of eggs.

Dizzle63 · 04/29/2009, 11:52 AM

Do they end up getting better color than the normal photos? I like them, but they seem to be drab compared to most of the others.

namxas · 04/29/2009, 01:09 PM

many of the "flagfin" (Doryhamphus sp.) of pipes make excellent additions to a reef, and for the most part are a bit easier to wean onto frozen than dragon-faced pipes simply by virtue of the size of their mouths.

Janss' (D. janssi and bandeds (D. dactyliophorus) are probably your two best bets, IMHO. bluestripes (usually D. excisus) are also a good choice, but are smaller, and unless you're sure you have a pair, males will fight to the death. i'd also shy away from yellow-banded (D. pessuliferus) and multi-banded (D. multilineatus) as their survival rate tend to be a bit sketchy even if you can get them eating.

the flagfins are free-swimmers, whereas dragon-faced pipes slither around between the rockwork and corals.

i kept a pair of Janss' in my reef for about 3 years and they did wonderfully. they even set up a cleaning station and groomed my other fish on occasion. they ate frozen Hikari mysis as well as pods they hunted in the tank.

HTH

Elysia · 04/29/2009, 02:38 PM

Personally, I wouldn't keep a pipe w/ any strong stinging coral, just to be safe. This includes all the fish eaters and the aggressive corals, including the carpet anemones, frogspawns, anchor, elegance, some of the open brains/meat corals... Especially if you are thinking of going the route of a dragon face pipe. They aren't the strong swimmers that the flagfin pipes are.

As far a using their tails, I think the only ones in the hobby that really do that are the alligator pipes.

Dizzle63 · 04/29/2009, 02:46 PM

Do pipefish recognize problem animals such as anemones and stinging corals? I have a friend with some tube anemones and the fish know that they are there and will not touch them. Are pipefish that "smart?"

mollymonticello · 04/29/2009, 06:27 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Dizzle63
Do pipefish recognize problem animals such as anemones and stinging corals? I have a friend with some tube anemones and the fish know that they are there and will not touch them. Are pipefish that "smart?"

It's only a matter of time before there is an accident. Anemones and Euphyllids should never be kept with pipefish or seahorses.

Dragonfaced pipefish are known for being slightly more tolerant to corals (SPS and soft corals) than other pipefish or seahorses, but they would be stung badly by an anemone if they were to touch one. I've seen dragonface pipes killed and partially consumed by moderate sized bulb anemones. Not pretty.

mollymonticello · 04/29/2009, 06:27 PM

sorry, double post!

mollymonticello · 04/29/2009, 06:28 PM

.

namxas · 04/29/2009, 09:17 PM

*waves to Felicia*

i mostly agree about Syngnathids and stinging corals and nems, but when i had my reef, i kept a tube nem and several large Euphyllia with my Janss' with no trouble (as mentioned, flagfins are super strong swimmers that don't really "perch" when out in the open. that being said, i wouldn't trust carpet nems or elephant ears with pretty much ANY fish.

Dizzle63 · 04/30/2009, 02:50 PM

Do the non-perching pipes eat microfauna the same way that dragon faced pipes do, namely red bugs?

wolfman1973 · 05/01/2009, 11:06 AM

dragon faces are stronger swimmers than most people give them,granted the do mostly crawl around.mine seem very smart when it comes to reconizing my anemones and hammer coral,in fact mine sometimes sleep within an inch of one of my anemones.now it is true that anemones and hammer like corals could be a danger to the pipes but i think that could be applied to alot of other critters we put in there with them!!!!!!!!!!1

namxas · 05/01/2009, 12:12 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Dizzle63
Do the non-perching pipes eat microfauna the same way that dragon faced pipes do, namely red bugs?

i've never heard of any other pipes eating redbugs...just dragon-faced. pods are another story, a pair pipes can put a REAL hurt on a system's pod population in short order.

i know a fellow in Germany who keeps DF's in his reef and they actually slither thru his Euphyllia with no apparent trouble.

porkchop48 · 05/02/2009, 07:31 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by wolfman1973
the dragon faced pipes are one of the best for a mixed reef. you need to have lots of pods in there for them to eat because it is hard to get them to accept anything else. i keep mine in a mixed reef and they are doing great,in fact my male is carying his 5th batch of eggs.

5th batch of eggs.. That is awesome. Have any hatched?

wolfman1973 · 05/02/2009, 05:56 PM

i have never seen them release the young and the young are the size of the parents food(very small) the male seems to release them every ten days or so and they mate the next day when the actinics come on. i have to get a good camera so i can take pics

mollymonticello · 05/03/2009, 03:20 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by namxas
i've never heard of any other pipes eating redbugs...just dragon-faced. pods are another story, a pair pipes can put a REAL hurt on a system's pod population in short order.

i know a fellow in Germany who keeps DF's in his reef and they actually slither thru his Euphyllia with no apparent trouble.

Are you talking about Ralph? I know he has Toadstool corals, etc, but I didn't know he had Euphyllids. Have you seen pictures of this?

suzimcmullen · 05/03/2009, 05:29 PM

I have 2 pipefish that was sent to me by Dana with CCritters. I am not sure of the type. One of them was pregnant and delivered 15 right after he came. The babies have doubled in size in just 2 weeks. I grow out brine shrimp and feed them my own formula that I have been developing over the last year. The pipes were small but able to eat baby brine from the start and now eat 3-4 day old enriched brine easily.

Suzi

namxas · 05/05/2009, 11:11 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by mollymonticello
Are you talking about Ralph? I know he has Toadstool corals, etc, but I didn't know he had Euphyllids. Have you seen pictures of this?

yeah, it was Ralph...i don't remember when or where i saw the pix, but i did ask him about it (unless i'm just having a "senior moment").

mollymonticello · 05/06/2009, 08:04 PM

I have to admit, I have a 1 inch Duncan frag in with my one bluestripe...I worry about it constantly. But so far, so good. The polyp is splitting, but maybe I won't have to get rid of it when it gets big?

Where the heck has Ralph been these days? I miss his photos.

Elysia · 05/07/2009, 08:55 AM

I didn't think Ducans had the sting of, say, an elegance.

Sometimes I think it comes down to things that can most easily be summed up by the term: luck. For example, a collector may chance upon a pipe to begin with due to the pipe being distracted by a commotion on the reef, and the health of the pipe may be very good; or a collector may catch the slowest pipe on the reef, the less fit, that maybe isn't so healthy. And your LFS may order that pipe from the wholesaler as soon as that fish comes in, or that pipe may sit at the wholeseller's for a week, not getting proper food, before it is subjected to the rigors of shipping. And during any of those flights, that pipe may sit out in 50 degree or 100 degree temps, or it may not.

Similarly, that pipe may be an old salt of the reef, and live in an area filled with all kinds of stinging corals and know how to navigate around them. Or it may be collected as a juvie, or from waters where tube anemones are not common, and thus have no experience with them. Who knows? I do think that fish can learn from experience (even goldfish in a pond learn to surface when footsteps near after they have been fed a few times.)

The LFS close by had quite a few CB pink skunk clowns in a tank with some buble tip anemones, and everything was going fine in the tank and it remained unchanged for about a month. Then, the LFS added two tube anemones to the same tank. The next time I went in, there wasn't a single pink skunk clown left -- and I doubt that they all sold....

If it works, great. But I have gone through my Borneman book and essentially put at least half of the corals listed in the category of "not appropriate for me" (either because they have a dismal rate of survival, need care that I can not give, or are too aggressive to fish and/or one another.)

Felicia, you need to post photos of your guppies sometime.

04/28/2009, 04:38 PM	#1
Dizzle63 Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: St. Louis, MO Posts: 593	New to Pipes I am new to pipefish and wanted to get some information. I have read that they are difficult to wean onto prepared foods and that they do not like being around stinging organisms. What corals or anemones are safe or not safe with pipes? How well do they do in a relatively high flow environment (45X turnover)? Do they attach themselves like seahorses, or do they swim freely? Of the commonly available species, which is the most suitable for a mixed reef? Thank you in advance!

04/29/2009, 04:58 AM	#2
landlord Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Alexandria, KY Posts: 1,940	I would say that dragonface pipes are the most likely to be able to hold onto structures. At least when I had mine they scooted around in contact with the liverock. They were housed in an SPS tank stocked full without any stinging issues. There was also a GBTA in the tank with them, no problems there either. I found the hardest part about pipes is acquiring healthy specimens that make it past a couple weeks. I have gone through about 6 differnt pipes (3 species) and the only one to make it and thrive is my current yellow multibanded. He is a fat hog, chows down on frozen cyclops, swims with the bigger kids, etc... Good Luck landlord __________________ Forget the Turtle Man, you got the Coral Man Live Action Fragging! Current Tank Info: 90 Gallon SPS Reef (Sump, Fuge, Skimmer, CX reactor, Chemical filtration, Overflow) by Lifereef, 2x400W 20K Radiums on IceCaps, 2x39W T5 "For fun", RK2, 4x Tunze 6055, Aqua Logic 1/3 HP Chiller, DIY RO/DI ATO 2-Part via Litermeter. Lotsa Clownfish

04/29/2009, 01:09 PM	#5
namxas Things With Stings R Us! Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Carson, CA Posts: 4,581	many of the "flagfin" (Doryhamphus sp.) of pipes make excellent additions to a reef, and for the most part are a bit easier to wean onto frozen than dragon-faced pipes simply by virtue of the size of their mouths. Janss' (D. janssi and bandeds (D. dactyliophorus) are probably your two best bets, IMHO. bluestripes (usually D. excisus) are also a good choice, but are smaller, and unless you're sure you have a pair, males will fight to the death. i'd also shy away from yellow-banded (D. pessuliferus) and multi-banded (D. multilineatus) as their survival rate tend to be a bit sketchy even if you can get them eating. the flagfins are free-swimmers, whereas dragon-faced pipes slither around between the rockwork and corals. i kept a pair of Janss' in my reef for about 3 years and they did wonderfully. they even set up a cleaning station and groomed my other fish on occasion. they ate frozen Hikari mysis as well as pods they hunted in the tank. HTH __________________ Greg Current Tank Info: too many to describe, but i think the count is up to "lucky 13"!

04/29/2009, 09:17 PM	#11
namxas Things With Stings R Us! Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Carson, CA Posts: 4,581	waves to Felicia i mostly agree about Syngnathids and stinging corals and nems, but when i had my reef, i kept a tube nem and several large Euphyllia with my Janss' with no trouble (as mentioned, flagfins are super strong swimmers that don't really "perch" when out in the open. that being said, i wouldn't trust carpet nems or elephant ears with pretty much ANY fish. __________________ Greg Current Tank Info: too many to describe, but i think the count is up to "lucky 13"!

05/06/2009, 08:04 PM	#20
mollymonticello Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Philadelphia Posts: 566	I have to admit, I have a 1 inch Duncan frag in with my one bluestripe...I worry about it constantly. But so far, so good. The polyp is splitting, but maybe I won't have to get rid of it when it gets big? Where the heck has Ralph been these days? I miss his photos. __________________ - Felicia - Current Tank Info: 55 + two 20 gallon refugiums coldwater with puffer, seahorses, gobies, crabs, starfish all from the Atlantic. 90 gallon w 20 gal refugium with Tilefish, Swallowtail Angel, Blue Tang, Clingfish, Naked Clown, Fancy white clown, brachio blenny, mollies

04/29/2009, 10:41 AM	#3
wolfman1973 Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: waterloo Posts: 73	the dragon faced pipes are one of the best for a mixed reef. you need to have lots of pods in there for them to eat because it is hard to get them to accept anything else. i keep mine in a mixed reef and they are doing great,in fact my male is carying his 5th batch of eggs.

04/29/2009, 11:52 AM	#4
Dizzle63 Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: St. Louis, MO Posts: 593	Do they end up getting better color than the normal photos? I like them, but they seem to be drab compared to most of the others.

04/29/2009, 02:38 PM	#6
Elysia Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Central PA Posts: 1,693	Personally, I wouldn't keep a pipe w/ any strong stinging coral, just to be safe. This includes all the fish eaters and the aggressive corals, including the carpet anemones, frogspawns, anchor, elegance, some of the open brains/meat corals... Especially if you are thinking of going the route of a dragon face pipe. They aren't the strong swimmers that the flagfin pipes are. As far a using their tails, I think the only ones in the hobby that really do that are the alligator pipes.

04/29/2009, 02:46 PM	#7
Dizzle63 Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: St. Louis, MO Posts: 593	Do pipefish recognize problem animals such as anemones and stinging corals? I have a friend with some tube anemones and the fish know that they are there and will not touch them. Are pipefish that "smart?"

04/29/2009, 06:27 PM	#9
mollymonticello Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Philadelphia Posts: 566	sorry, double post!

04/29/2009, 06:28 PM	#10
mollymonticello Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Philadelphia Posts: 566	.

04/30/2009, 02:50 PM	#12
Dizzle63 Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: St. Louis, MO Posts: 593	Do the non-perching pipes eat microfauna the same way that dragon faced pipes do, namely red bugs?

05/01/2009, 11:06 AM	#13
wolfman1973 Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: waterloo Posts: 73	dragon faces are stronger swimmers than most people give them,granted the do mostly crawl around.mine seem very smart when it comes to reconizing my anemones and hammer coral,in fact mine sometimes sleep within an inch of one of my anemones.now it is true that anemones and hammer like corals could be a danger to the pipes but i think that could be applied to alot of other critters we put in there with them!!!!!!!!!!1

05/02/2009, 05:56 PM	#16
wolfman1973 Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: waterloo Posts: 73	i have never seen them release the young and the young are the size of the parents food(very small) the male seems to release them every ten days or so and they mate the next day when the actinics come on. i have to get a good camera so i can take pics

05/03/2009, 05:29 PM	#18
suzimcmullen Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Midwest Posts: 890	I have 2 pipefish that was sent to me by Dana with CCritters. I am not sure of the type. One of them was pregnant and delivered 15 right after he came. The babies have doubled in size in just 2 weeks. I grow out brine shrimp and feed them my own formula that I have been developing over the last year. The pipes were small but able to eat baby brine from the start and now eat 3-4 day old enriched brine easily. Suzi

05/07/2009, 08:55 AM	#21
Elysia Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Central PA Posts: 1,693	I didn't think Ducans had the sting of, say, an elegance. Sometimes I think it comes down to things that can most easily be summed up by the term: luck. For example, a collector may chance upon a pipe to begin with due to the pipe being distracted by a commotion on the reef, and the health of the pipe may be very good; or a collector may catch the slowest pipe on the reef, the less fit, that maybe isn't so healthy. And your LFS may order that pipe from the wholesaler as soon as that fish comes in, or that pipe may sit at the wholeseller's for a week, not getting proper food, before it is subjected to the rigors of shipping. And during any of those flights, that pipe may sit out in 50 degree or 100 degree temps, or it may not. Similarly, that pipe may be an old salt of the reef, and live in an area filled with all kinds of stinging corals and know how to navigate around them. Or it may be collected as a juvie, or from waters where tube anemones are not common, and thus have no experience with them. Who knows? I do think that fish can learn from experience (even goldfish in a pond learn to surface when footsteps near after they have been fed a few times.) The LFS close by had quite a few CB pink skunk clowns in a tank with some buble tip anemones, and everything was going fine in the tank and it remained unchanged for about a month. Then, the LFS added two tube anemones to the same tank. The next time I went in, there wasn't a single pink skunk clown left -- and I doubt that they all sold.... If it works, great. But I have gone through my Borneman book and essentially put at least half of the corals listed in the category of "not appropriate for me" (either because they have a dismal rate of survival, need care that I can not give, or are too aggressive to fish and/or one another.) Felicia, you need to post photos of your guppies sometime.