The battle of the dreaded dinoflagellates... or chrysophytes? - Page 2

Boomer · 06/07/2009, 10:08 PM

Due to the way it is growing it is not Dino's. Those are Diatoms

ChrisKirkland · 06/07/2009, 10:11 PM

Ok... So I am guessing that Diatoms also have the O2 bubbles in it... and do they also grow/attach on to rock work/corals and glass?

Boomer · 06/07/2009, 10:23 PM

Yes, and thay also can have O2 bubbles, as can Cyano or Dino's. When they are on the SB most of the time if they are brownish it is Diatoms, if black, dark green or reddish to maroon, then Cyano. Dinos are different beast and look like "snoot" whith many more a larger bubbles. Thye are much more common to high water flow areas and not the SB, where you find Cyano and Diatoms which like lower current.

ChrisKirkland · 06/07/2009, 10:49 PM

Ok... So that mean that diatoms can even reside on the rock work?

Boomer · 06/07/2009, 11:25 PM

Yes, but are more common on the SB or glass. It is still possible you have Dino's but they are nowhere near as common as Diatoms. Do have any of this in high flow areas ? Re-looking at those pics together and the much more vertical extent and long tapered balloon like structures, it could very well be Dino's. It can be hard to ID from pics at times. I should not have jumped on Diatoms right away. Take some out and rub them between your fingers and see if they have a sand like feel to them, if so more than likely Diatoms. Dinos are know fro growimg gelatinous like matts and is why they are called "snot" alage. Yours have some what of a snot like look. That does not mean thye are always snot like. In early stages on the SB they look the same as Diatoms.

ChrisKirkland · 06/07/2009, 11:27 PM

There are some in the high flow areas where my seios blow at on the rock work and glass.

Boomer · 06/07/2009, 11:38 PM

Then I wold bet on Dino's

Compguy · 06/08/2009, 07:23 AM

Either way, I would check your RO/DI unit, it is more than likely the cause of this problem, somebody out here had the same problem and it was because of the water from his RO/DI unit, either your filters or your membrane needs to be changed. Use a TDS meter to keep an eye on its efficiency.

ChrisKirkland · 06/08/2009, 08:07 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Compguy
Either way, I would check your RO/DI unit, it is more than likely the cause of this problem, somebody out here had the same problem and it was because of the water from his RO/DI unit, either your filters or your membrane needs to be changed. Use a TDS meter to keep an eye on its efficiency.

True I have checked the TDS of my RODI unit and it reads zero... I also checked it with a hand held TDS tester is use in the field and it reads 1ppm.

Compguy · 06/08/2009, 08:35 AM

Do you remember when the last time your prefilter's, membrane or DI was changed, now that I think about it, for some reason I am thinking that the guy out here that had it might have said something about it not having to do with TDS, I could be completely wrong and off the wall because I can't remember but just a thought.

ChrisKirkland · 06/08/2009, 08:38 AM

Hmmm... if the water reads zero TDS then it should have nothing in it oly H2 molecules and O molecules...

gsxunv04 · 06/08/2009, 08:48 AM

Isnt your Ca high at 520? The algae looks like dinos to me, leave your lights off for three days. Do not do a water changem it feeds silicates to dinos. I would aggressively run carbon, ROX 0.8 in a PBR would be ideal.

ChrisKirkland · 06/08/2009, 08:50 AM

Thats what I run currently (oops I stuck an extra zero in my post about that :-)) Yes I do run my calcium a bit high, the SPS corals seem to like it...

Boomer · 06/08/2009, 11:59 AM

Some things I forgot

Diatome are not Chrysophytes, aka "Golden Algae" but Bacillariophytes. Chrysophytes use to include Diatoms but not anymore. Chrysophytes are almost exclusively Fresh Water.

There is also no need to runCa++ at thsoe levels of 520 ppm as it does not make coral grow any faster than it does say at 420 ppm. Coral growth is controlled by higher pH and Alk not Ca++.

Chris your real issue is to many nutrients. You can get rid of them by doing the following which hold ture for most Dino's, Diatom's and Cyano's

A 2- 3 month scheme

1. Water changes. 25% weekly.

2. Bare bottom refugium only for cheato nutrient export and not for critters.

3. Siphon, sump, refugium and clean Skimmer, etc. every week during water change and clean all or any filters you have.

4. Blow off all the Cyano/Dino's/Diatoms and settled stuff so it can be siphoned off once a week just before the water change or during the WC.

5. During these water changes and blowing stuff off and siphoning it up run a Diatom filter with a second cake of PAC (Powdered activated carbon) if you can.

6. Carbon, 1 cup per 50 gallons / 2 wks. Try to use ROX

7. GFO -HC , change every month.

8. Purigen, every month

9. Watch how much food you add and note what is in it as far as N and P

10. Shutting of all lights, almost total darkness for 48 hr. every few days.

gsxunv04

Dino's, Dinoflagellates, do not use or "feed" on Silica, Diatoms do.

ChrisKirkland · 06/08/2009, 01:15 PM

Ok... I have been trying some of those steps boomer, I too believe it is nutrient that is locked up inside the dinos and not reading on my test kits...

ChrisKirkland · 06/09/2009, 09:02 AM

Just looked today and took some water samples, the dino is beginning to die off for no apparent reason... I have been using aggressive skimming (over 3 ASM G-3 cups a day), Phosban, and ROX .8 carbon. and did a 30 gallon wc on sunday... So is this a fake die off then it will come back 10X worse?

squillaempusa · 08/27/2015, 11:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChrisKirkland

Just looked today and took some water samples, the dino is beginning to die off for no apparent reason... I have been using aggressive skimming (over 3 ASM G-3 cups a day), Phosban, and ROX .8 carbon. and did a 30 gallon wc on sunday... So is this a fake die off then it will come back 10X worse?

so what happened?

06/07/2009, 10:08 PM	#26
Boomer Bomb Technician (EOD) Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Duluth, Minnesota Posts: 11,842	Due to the way it is growing it is not Dino's. Those are Diatoms __________________ If you See Me Running You Better Catch-Up Seawater Chemistry, Geology, ID Marine Life, Collecting Science Books, Explosives Technology, Audiophile An explosion can be defined as a loud noise, accompanied by the sudden going away of things, from a place where they use to be.

06/07/2009, 10:11 PM	#27
ChrisKirkland Reef and Coral Fanatic Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Lexington, Ky. Posts: 1,739	Ok... So I am guessing that Diatoms also have the O2 bubbles in it... and do they also grow/attach on to rock work/corals and glass? __________________ Chris Kirkland Reef Nerd. Current Tank Info: Getting back into the hobby.

06/07/2009, 10:23 PM	#28
Boomer Bomb Technician (EOD) Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Duluth, Minnesota Posts: 11,842	Yes, and thay also can have O2 bubbles, as can Cyano or Dino's. When they are on the SB most of the time if they are brownish it is Diatoms, if black, dark green or reddish to maroon, then Cyano. Dinos are different beast and look like "snoot" whith many more a larger bubbles. Thye are much more common to high water flow areas and not the SB, where you find Cyano and Diatoms which like lower current. __________________ If you See Me Running You Better Catch-Up Seawater Chemistry, Geology, ID Marine Life, Collecting Science Books, Explosives Technology, Audiophile An explosion can be defined as a loud noise, accompanied by the sudden going away of things, from a place where they use to be.

06/07/2009, 10:49 PM	#29
ChrisKirkland Reef and Coral Fanatic Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Lexington, Ky. Posts: 1,739	Ok... So that mean that diatoms can even reside on the rock work? __________________ Chris Kirkland Reef Nerd. Current Tank Info: Getting back into the hobby.

06/07/2009, 11:25 PM	#30
Boomer Bomb Technician (EOD) Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Duluth, Minnesota Posts: 11,842	Yes, but are more common on the SB or glass. It is still possible you have Dino's but they are nowhere near as common as Diatoms. Do have any of this in high flow areas ? Re-looking at those pics together and the much more vertical extent and long tapered balloon like structures, it could very well be Dino's. It can be hard to ID from pics at times. I should not have jumped on Diatoms right away. Take some out and rub them between your fingers and see if they have a sand like feel to them, if so more than likely Diatoms. Dinos are know fro growimg gelatinous like matts and is why they are called "snot" alage. Yours have some what of a snot like look. That does not mean thye are always snot like. In early stages on the SB they look the same as Diatoms. __________________ If you See Me Running You Better Catch-Up Seawater Chemistry, Geology, ID Marine Life, Collecting Science Books, Explosives Technology, Audiophile An explosion can be defined as a loud noise, accompanied by the sudden going away of things, from a place where they use to be.

06/07/2009, 11:27 PM	#31
ChrisKirkland Reef and Coral Fanatic Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Lexington, Ky. Posts: 1,739	There are some in the high flow areas where my seios blow at on the rock work and glass. __________________ Chris Kirkland Reef Nerd. Current Tank Info: Getting back into the hobby.

06/07/2009, 11:38 PM	#32
Boomer Bomb Technician (EOD) Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Duluth, Minnesota Posts: 11,842	Then I wold bet on Dino's __________________ If you See Me Running You Better Catch-Up Seawater Chemistry, Geology, ID Marine Life, Collecting Science Books, Explosives Technology, Audiophile An explosion can be defined as a loud noise, accompanied by the sudden going away of things, from a place where they use to be.

06/08/2009, 07:23 AM	#33
Compguy Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Elgin, IL Posts: 1,313	Either way, I would check your RO/DI unit, it is more than likely the cause of this problem, somebody out here had the same problem and it was because of the water from his RO/DI unit, either your filters or your membrane needs to be changed. Use a TDS meter to keep an eye on its efficiency.

06/08/2009, 08:35 AM	#35
Compguy Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Elgin, IL Posts: 1,313	Do you remember when the last time your prefilter's, membrane or DI was changed, now that I think about it, for some reason I am thinking that the guy out here that had it might have said something about it not having to do with TDS, I could be completely wrong and off the wall because I can't remember but just a thought.

06/08/2009, 08:38 AM	#36
ChrisKirkland Reef and Coral Fanatic Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Lexington, Ky. Posts: 1,739	Hmmm... if the water reads zero TDS then it should have nothing in it oly H2 molecules and O molecules... __________________ Chris Kirkland Reef Nerd. Current Tank Info: Getting back into the hobby.

06/08/2009, 08:48 AM	#37
gsxunv04 Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Western North Carolina Posts: 874	Isnt your Ca high at 520? The algae looks like dinos to me, leave your lights off for three days. Do not do a water changem it feeds silicates to dinos. I would aggressively run carbon, ROX 0.8 in a PBR would be ideal.

06/08/2009, 08:50 AM	#38
ChrisKirkland Reef and Coral Fanatic Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Lexington, Ky. Posts: 1,739	Thats what I run currently (oops I stuck an extra zero in my post about that :-)) Yes I do run my calcium a bit high, the SPS corals seem to like it... __________________ Chris Kirkland Reef Nerd. Current Tank Info: Getting back into the hobby.

06/08/2009, 11:59 AM	#39
Boomer Bomb Technician (EOD) Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Duluth, Minnesota Posts: 11,842	Some things I forgot Diatome are not Chrysophytes, aka "Golden Algae" but Bacillariophytes. Chrysophytes use to include Diatoms but not anymore. Chrysophytes are almost exclusively Fresh Water. There is also no need to runCa++ at thsoe levels of 520 ppm as it does not make coral grow any faster than it does say at 420 ppm. Coral growth is controlled by higher pH and Alk not Ca++. Chris your real issue is to many nutrients. You can get rid of them by doing the following which hold ture for most Dino's, Diatom's and Cyano's A 2- 3 month scheme 1. Water changes. 25% weekly. 2. Bare bottom refugium only for cheato nutrient export and not for critters. 3. Siphon, sump, refugium and clean Skimmer, etc. every week during water change and clean all or any filters you have. 4. Blow off all the Cyano/Dino's/Diatoms and settled stuff so it can be siphoned off once a week just before the water change or during the WC. 5. During these water changes and blowing stuff off and siphoning it up run a Diatom filter with a second cake of PAC (Powdered activated carbon) if you can. 6. Carbon, 1 cup per 50 gallons / 2 wks. Try to use ROX 7. GFO -HC , change every month. 8. Purigen, every month 9. Watch how much food you add and note what is in it as far as N and P 10. Shutting of all lights, almost total darkness for 48 hr. every few days. gsxunv04 Dino's, Dinoflagellates, do not use or "feed" on Silica, Diatoms do. __________________ If you See Me Running You Better Catch-Up Seawater Chemistry, Geology, ID Marine Life, Collecting Science Books, Explosives Technology, Audiophile An explosion can be defined as a loud noise, accompanied by the sudden going away of things, from a place where they use to be.

06/08/2009, 01:15 PM	#40
ChrisKirkland Reef and Coral Fanatic Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Lexington, Ky. Posts: 1,739	Ok... I have been trying some of those steps boomer, I too believe it is nutrient that is locked up inside the dinos and not reading on my test kits... __________________ Chris Kirkland Reef Nerd. Current Tank Info: Getting back into the hobby.

06/09/2009, 09:02 AM	#41
ChrisKirkland Reef and Coral Fanatic Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Lexington, Ky. Posts: 1,739	Just looked today and took some water samples, the dino is beginning to die off for no apparent reason... I have been using aggressive skimming (over 3 ASM G-3 cups a day), Phosban, and ROX .8 carbon. and did a 30 gallon wc on sunday... So is this a fake die off then it will come back 10X worse? __________________ Chris Kirkland Reef Nerd. Current Tank Info: Getting back into the hobby.