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Unread 07/26/2009, 01:22 PM   #1
edsbeaker
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Reinforcing floor, and how to do it?

I will be setting up a 180 G. It will be on an outside wall with the joists running perpendicular to it, but am still concerned about the joists below not holding up. How would I go about reinforcing the joists below it. I've seen ideas on cross bracing and sistering joists. What is the preferred method?
Thanks,
Marilyn


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Unread 07/26/2009, 01:30 PM   #2
jbird69
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If you want to really do it right. put 2 concrete peir blocks a couple feet from the outside wall under the house. use a post and beam system with a post (4x4) on each pier, with a beam (4x6) on top of the posts tight to the underside of the floor joists. "toenail" screw everything together. Place the peirs aproximately the same distance aprt as your tank/stand is long. You can build this directly under the tank or slightly inward (away from outside wall) you are essencially building a load baring wall under your floor.

option 2....do nothing

Either option should work


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Unread 07/26/2009, 01:34 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally posted by jbird69
If you want to really do it right. put 2 concrete peir blocks a couple feet from the outside wall under the house. use a post and beam system with a post (4x4) on each pier, with a beam (4x6) on top of the posts tight to the underside of the floor joists. "toenail" screw everything together. Place the peirs aproximately the same distance aprt as your tank/stand is long. You can build this directly under the tank or slightly inward (away from outside wall) you are essencially building a load baring wall under your floor.

option 2....do nothing

Either option should work
+1 to either option should work. I know which one I would choose.


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Unread 07/26/2009, 02:38 PM   #4
edsbeaker
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Do you think, really, that I'm worried about nothing?

Of course option 2 is my preferred method as well, but 2000 lbs of weight seems like a lot to ask of a floor, and it doesn't seem to be a whole lot of work to cross brace a small section of the basement to possibly insure the tank doesn't fall through.

Any other opinions? Am I overly concerned about the weight or do I have a realistic concern?
Seriously, I'm not sure?


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Unread 07/26/2009, 03:19 PM   #5
JNye
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Since its on an outside wall that weight is being transferred to the foundation, pretty much right below the tank right, if this is correct then no, you have nothing to be concerned about. Also assuming the the joists are at least 2x8s.


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Unread 07/26/2009, 03:30 PM   #6
edsbeaker
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Thanks everyone. The joists are 2 X 10, and the tank will be as close to the foundation as physically possible. I guess I'm good to go then.


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Unread 07/26/2009, 10:15 PM   #7
GoToSleep
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Quote:
Originally posted by edsbeaker
Thanks everyone. The joists are 2 X 10, and the tank will be as close to the foundation as physically possible. I guess I'm good to go then.
You can rest easy.


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Unread 07/26/2009, 10:41 PM   #8
lastlight
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Option A will still reduce the amount of flex in the floor when people walk near the tank if anything. I'd re-enforce personally.


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Unread 07/26/2009, 10:59 PM   #9
insane
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Quote:
Originally posted by jbird69
If you want to really do it right. put 2 concrete peir blocks a couple feet from the outside wall under the house. use a post and beam system with a post (4x4) on each pier, with a beam (4x6) on top of the posts tight to the underside of the floor joists. "toenail" screw everything together. Place the peirs aproximately the same distance aprt as your tank/stand is long. You can build this directly under the tank or slightly inward (away from outside wall) you are essencially building a load baring wall under your floor.

option 2....do nothing

Either option should work
You are so bad!

and they say I am,
insane

This old house:
+ you can buy galvanized steel joist hangers and joist hanger nails (they are different), they are much stronger than screws. You can get these hangers that are used to build decks/houses from most home improvement stores (over by the concrete past the lumber) to tie the big beam to your floor joists and your posts to the beam to better stabilize it... ... Get two of each of the big ones that tie a "four by to a two by" (beam to joists) and ones that tie a "four by to a four by" (post to beam). That baby won't move then. If you use screws you could have a screw loose. LOL

House inspection time:
Where floor joists go into concrete, brick or block walls, that is where they rot, get eaten by bugs and are water damaged first.
You should not put faith into those joints unless you inspect the ends of the joists for damage. Use a hammer to pound on them close to the outer wall and see if they sound solid or hollow. Use a long skinny screwdriver and see if you can dig into the wood. If the screwdriver goes into the wood easily or the joists sound hollow your tank will settle the floor and joists down.

Got wood?

4 by to 4 by
4 by to 2 by
Nails
Pier here



Last edited by insane; 07/26/2009 at 11:25 PM.
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Unread 07/26/2009, 11:39 PM   #10
jbird69
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Those would be ideal if you were calling for an inspection. I dont think the whole thing is even necessary personally. Inspecting for dry rot is a good idea.

By the way, how far apart are your joists and does the floor feel sturdy...is it "springy" at all?


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Unread 07/27/2009, 02:02 AM   #11
kcress
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I would most certainly reinforce it myself.
It's not hard nor very expensive. Yes the floor will probably hold without it. But over time it will deform the floor and your room.

"Hmmm I didn't notice that crack across the ceiling before.."
"Hahaha, look a ball rolls across the floor without even pushing it Daddy!"
"Damn, This door is sticking really badly now."

These will be part of your future conversations.


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Unread 07/27/2009, 08:56 AM   #12
hllywd
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I don't think you have given enough information to get really good answers to your question. We know you have 2x10 floor joists. Are they on 16" centers like tehy should be? How far do they span? How old is the home? What is the makeup and condition of the foundation? Any other loads on the floor we should know about... (the upright piano, etc...)? Basement or crawl space?

A 2x10 SYP floor with an appropriate plywood or plank subfloor, a solid foundation, and a reasonable span should be fine with your 180. However, all of the other factors I mentioned are crucial to finding the correct answer too.

Tim


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Unread 07/27/2009, 10:37 AM   #13
hebygb
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I am a big fan of peace of mind... I would do the posts as recomended earlier... I would also "block" the joists. Its one thing to build the supports below, but another to keep the joists from folding up. However, it may already be done.

If you get clever enough you could build a fish utility center around the posts. An eventual home for a remote power center, sump, refugium etc...


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Unread 07/27/2009, 03:40 PM   #14
rezaktp
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I am considering the same scenario except the joists will run parrallel with the tank, all else is the same, on an outside wall, 2x10's at 16" centers, 180 tank, basement sump. I am considering using 2 lolly columns under the joist that is in the center of the tank.


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Unread 07/27/2009, 04:22 PM   #15
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Take a picture...We wanna seeee it




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Unread 07/27/2009, 05:02 PM   #16
jbird69
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Quote:
Originally posted by rezaktp
I am considering the same scenario except the joists will run parrallel with the tank, all else is the same, on an outside wall, 2x10's at 16" centers, 180 tank, basement sump. I am considering using 2 lolly columns under the joist that is in the center of the tank.
LOLLY COLUMN!!!!!!!! now theres a word I havent heard in many moons! It puts you on an elite pedestal simply to know that word.


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Unread 07/27/2009, 05:13 PM   #17
reef2
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if u build a fish room under the tank u can just build a wall that touches the joists and the basement floor right where the front of the stand will rest since ur joists run the opposite way of the tank.

sistering joists is a pita. i did it for my 240g. had to rip out 6' of sub floor and all the joists to be able to get the new joists in. now there is about 10-2x8 joist under my tank.


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Unread 07/27/2009, 05:36 PM   #18
woowoodengy
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do nothing

its a 180 guys not a 280 lol


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Unread 07/28/2009, 11:59 AM   #19
RokleM
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I did something in between. Not extreme, but I did brace on my 200 (4x3). I can tell you that I have less "bouncing" and movement of the tank when I jump near by it. Before the brace, the tank/stand moved slightly with a little more ripple across the water than I liked.

The cement/block wall is behind the workbench on the left (and the tank would have it back to the wall upstairs). You would be looking at the front/left of the tank upstairs. Basically the 4x4 on top and bottom help to spread the weight across the beams/floor.




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Unread 07/29/2009, 07:24 AM   #20
Rhodes19
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Quote:
Originally posted by kcress

"Hmmm I didn't notice that crack across the ceiling before.."
"Hahaha, look a ball rolls across the floor without even pushing it Daddy!"
"Damn, This door is sticking really badly now."

These will be part of your future conversations.
Wow, that sounds like some of my wife’s comments about the new hospital wing she works at. "Want to see the patient and gurney roll down the hall way?

I am planning on putting my 180 in our kitchen eating area and I will be using the post and beam method for support. Probably does not need it but it will be cheap insurance for peace of mind.


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Unread 07/29/2009, 10:40 AM   #21
KafudaFish
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I did what RokleM did. I spent about $30 at HD and about 30 minutes installing it. If you move the tank around or remove it such as when you move you can remove any evidence of the additional supports nor would you have to explain why there was additional support for that section of the house. The buyer may think there was a structural issue then.


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Unread 07/29/2009, 11:15 PM   #22
lion
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I had the same problem.I used a steel "I" beam to go across the joists and I made my stand with gal Steel and had a flat bottom "no legs" so it could spread the heavy load of the tank. Rather than having 4 or 6 legs on the stand which in turn would have 4 or 6 points on the floor taking all the load.


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Unread 07/30/2009, 07:55 AM   #23
Rhodes19
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Quote:
Originally posted by KafudaFish
I did what RokleM did. I spent about $30 at HD and about 30 minutes installing it. If you move the tank around or remove it such as when you move you can remove any evidence of the additional supports nor would you have to explain why there was additional support for that section of the house. The buyer may think there was a structural issue then.
Unfortunately, I have about 2' of clearance in the crawl space.


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Unread 07/30/2009, 01:01 PM   #24
kcress
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That's what I have. I did what jbird69 suggested. I have had zero problems in the 14 years of the tank sitting there.


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