Looking for a reef controller

[tkimmons85]

Title says it all looking for a used controller.

[ocd_mariner]

Check out our mtrc forums and win a free one.

[tkimmons85]

Sweet thanks for telling me

[tkimmons85]

Still looking for a controller though so dont be shy.

[andywe]

Buy an RKL and grow it with your system. 99 bucks...do not get old antiquated systems someone else paid too much for. www.digitalaquatics.com

[DaFishHead]

Neptune Apex!!! It is awesome. It can send you e-mails when your system is down, you can download graphs on your PC, and it is expandable.....

Neptune's Customer service seems to be much better than DA who makes Reef keeper

[andywe]

Originally Posted by DaFishHead

Neptune Apex!!! It is awesome. It can send you e-mails when your system is down, you can download graphs on your PC, and it is expandable.....

Neptune's Customer service seems to be much better than DA who makes Reef keeper

Highly disagree, and you can do graphs and get emails with the RKE or RKL for that matter as well. Just choose the functions you want and only buy those, or buy a complete package if it suits your needs. Apex and neptune you pay for everything or get nothing.

[tkimmons85]

Thanks

[ZachB]

Originally Posted by andywe

Highly disagree, and you can do graphs and get emails with the RKE or RKL for that matter as well. Just choose the functions you want and only buy those, or buy a complete package if it suits your needs. Apex and neptune you pay for everything or get nothing.

Can you explain "pay for everything or get nothing"?

I have the Apex and I really like it. Everything programmable across the web, full outlet control from my blackberry with probe status, etc. $470 out the door at AquaCave.

I haven't paid for anything else but another EnergyBar 8, which at $150 for 8 outlets was cheaper than $180 for 2 PC4's.

I can add float switches with the built in IO port and serial cable and wire it myself, or choose to buy the breakout box for $40 and wire directly to that for convenience (without having to make cables / crimp ends). So with the breakout box I'd still be right around the $500 the RKE is at, and have more switch inputs in the process.

I can code each outlet and pretty much make it do whatever I want, when I want, where with the RKE I'd be limited to whatever settings are pre-programmed.

Also a major influence on my decision is the fact I can do all updates over the web, versus having to plug each individual device into my computer and flash them to upgrade.

Both are good controllers, and yes the Apex is going through the new product growing pains stage (only on the market for a month), but the RKE had that as well. So pay for everything or get nothing - I'm a bit confused. You have to pay for additional modules with the RKE as well.

www.neptunesys.com

[mixer911]

There are a lot of choices to make when deciding what controller you specifically need. I can say I have owned both Neptue Sys and Digital Aquatics products. My experience with Neptune (I am currently running a AC Jr and love it and also had a AC III a few years ago) has been great. I have not had to contact support for either of my controllers, so to me that is a plus.

I also own 2 RKL's and can say the first one that I recieved from them I got a DOA PC4. Not a good thing, especially if that is what is powering my tank. They did ship me a replacement, but it took 4 days for them to answer the email. That left a bad taste for me. The RKLs are pretty much just over priced fancy timers. The only thing they control is the temp. I have heard a lot of probs with the temp probe. If you want PH you gotta start adding $$$ with their "modules". The whole "modules" thing is such a gimmic, IMHO. I can see a PH and Net module, but people want gadgets I guess.

If you going to spend the money on a controller, get one that actually is programable and you can "control" things with it. Go with a AC jr, AC III, Apex, or RKE.

ok off my soap box now, hahaha

[ZachB]

I unfortunately did have to contact Neptune support as my energybar 8 had a bad amp meter out of box. Curt shipped it out same day 3 day air so I had it by Friday, along with my second EB8. Annoying, but I'm used to having such experiences (it seems everything I buy, no matter what, always has issues ). So, their support has been good in my opinion.

I agree with Rick, the modules are a gimmick. You get temperature control, timers, and that's really it out of box. I've seen the temp probe for the RK, and it's a flimsy wire. The Apex has a small but chunky probe with some weight to it to stay under water.

[mixer911]

Originally Posted by andywe

Highly disagree, and you can do graphs and get emails with the RKE or RKL for that matter as well. Just choose the functions you want and only buy those, or buy a complete package if it suits your needs. Apex and neptune you pay for everything or get nothing.

How do you get email from a RKL? Net module is not compatiable, correct?

[ai-reefer]

looks like Zach is winning the argument, where are you andy?

I have a feeling, this thread is going to be priceless

[NeveSSL]

Gimmick? GIMMICK? I can't believe you two! I WANT MORE MODULES!



On a more serious note, I don't think the modules are a gimmick at all, any more so than having a computer for a fish tank is in and of itself. Its true they may not be necessary, but I think gimmick is a little over the top.

tkimmons, to answer your question, the best thing to do is figure out what you want to do. I tried to post earlier but lost connection, the AC Jr. and RKL are both great units (as are the RKE and Apex IMO) and both companies (even within our own club) have had issues straight out of the box. It happens, I'm not worried about it.

Brandon

[tkimmons85]

I guess I'll just keep my eyes open for a good deal.

[mixer911]

Originally Posted by NeveSSL

Gimmick? GIMMICK? I can't believe you two! I WANT MORE MODULES!



On a more serious note, I don't think the modules are a gimmick at all, any more so than having a computer for a fish tank is in and of itself. Its true they may not be necessary, but I think gimmick is a little over the top.

Brandon

Gimmick fits it perfect. That is what a company uses to draw in customers. DA loves to tout all these "new modules" that are coming out. The thing is, other controllers already have that function, without a "module", built in. You know me I like toys too but some are just that, toys. To each their own

Originally Posted by NeveSSL

tkimmons, to answer your question, the best thing to do is figure out what you want to do. I tried to post earlier but lost connection, the AC Jr. and RKL are both great units (as are the RKE and Apex IMO) and both companies (even within our own club) have had issues straight out of the box. It happens, I'm not worried about it.

Brandon

It's not the fact that the power strip was DOA (just a little) because I know electronics all fail (keeps me employed ). It was the fact it took them 4 days to respond to an email. And the ironic thing is their website says email is the best way to contact support.

And the RKL and AC Jr do not compare. ACjr is a lot more controller than the RKL will ever be with any amount of "modules". The brain is still a basic timer and thats it.


tkimmons just look what you started

[allgoodsystems]

I actually thought it was kind of silly and a little over the top when I first saw these controllers on peoples tanks. I bought an aquacontroller jr a few weeks ago and I honestly couldn't part with it now. Makes things so much easier and the jr has way more features than I will ever use.

[ai-reefer]

Originally Posted by mixer911

The brain is still a basic timer and thats it.

Timer is the most important aspect of a controller. Its actually the whole point of having a controller.

A timer is a controller.

I could also say that the Apex is just a timer with a bunch of extra stuff

I think we should leave "just a timer" idea alone, it really doesnt make any sense or prove any point.

[mixer911]

Originally Posted by ai-reefer

Timer is the most important aspect of a controller. Its actually the whole point of having a controller.

A timer is a controller.

I could also say that the Apex is just a timer with a bunch of extra stuff

I think we should leave "just a timer" idea alone, it really doesnt make any sense.

You are correct a timer is a controller and your correct, the apex is just a timer with a bunch of extra stuff. That "extra stuff" allows you to program the "controller" to do more than just turn port 1 on at 10am and off at 12pm. It allows complex statements to control your system. RKL does not. Trust me it is "just a timer" with a temp probe and no advanced control. I think the "just a timer" describes it perfect. Not sure what does not make sense? Call it what ever you want, i was just describing what it is.

[andywe]

Originally Posted by mixer911

You are correct a timer is a controller and your correct, the apex is just a timer with a bunch of extra stuff. That "extra stuff" allows you to program the "controller" to do more than just turn port 1 on at 10am and off at 12pm. It allows complex statements to control your system. RKL does not. Trust me it is "just a timer" with a temp probe and no advanced control. I think the "just a timer" describes it perfect. Not sure what does not make sense? Call it what ever you want, i was just describing what it is.

RIck,

Thats very untrue. The RKL can do as complex as any system out there. You can stack timers, you can program conditions based off off controller functions, such as temp, PH, salinity (oops the neptune doesn't do this), wavemaker control, standby delays, as well as adding alarms. Alarms themselves can be used silently as condition triggers so really it is VERY extensible.

Apex and RKE are both fine units, however the fact that I can buy an RKL or RKE and just the functions I want versus having to pay for a single offering (everything in one box) only makes the RK series more palatable. I pay for what I want.

As far as modules being a gimmick?? Bah..your reaching there. It allows me to change, upgrade, reconfigure, and remove certain functions without having to remove the whole system. Since the reference was made about computers on tanks, why on earth would I want an all in one so that when 1 component fails the whole thing has to go back for repair?? I had an issue and was able to remove only that part..there is something very good about that.

Last, I am always curious why the Apex looks so much alike the RKE..other than Kurt was forced to come up with something quick. Things with the AC line never moved along..new functions beyond what came out were never part of his MO. When I was researching controllers to buy, this was in fact a sentiment I heard from several people and validated researching on the web. It's a one man shop at Neptune so that is a risk as well.

If someone gave me an Apex. yes, you bet I would use it. Having both controllers out there for the market they are priced in is good for all of us..keeps the improvements coming...but if I am buying one, the DA gets the business until Neptune can show me a real reason why I should use their product.

As for support, My experience with Neptune is drastically different than yours. It was bad..including the tenor of the communication. That left a bad taste in my mouth.

Lastly, the RKL is a smaller offering, and comes in several levels. the RKL 1 is under a 100 bucks...at that pricepoint it is an outstanding value for what it offers....and the RKL3 continues that value with additional peripherals.

Ok, I'm done comparing..I voiced my opinion. Happy reefing all!

[mixer911]

Originally Posted by andywe

RIck,

Thats very untrue. The RKL can do as complex as any system out there. You can stack timers, you can program conditions based off off controller functions, such as temp, PH, salinity (oops the neptune doesn't do this), wavemaker control, standby delays, as well as adding alarms. Alarms themselves can be used silently as condition triggers so really it is VERY extensible.

RKL can be complex and is a PITA to program on the screen. Try turning on a device manually without going thru 5 menus. With my ACjr i can turn on or off anything i want with the touch of one button on my phone or web interface. I really do not think a salinity probe will make or break the apex. Anyone who trusts it to control anything anyway is just nieve. Another gimmic If i want to check my salinity i just use my refracto. Part of this hobby is actually hands on and trying to automate everything is asking for disaster.

Originally Posted by andywe

Apex and RKE are both fine units, however the fact that I can buy an RKL or RKE and just the functions I want versus having to pay for a single offering (everything in one box) only makes the RK series more palatable. I pay for what I want.

Some people like to spend money wisely and not just throw it at their tank and hope it makes it look good. I am sure you pay for what you want, but I like to pay for what I need. The basics. I have had beautiful reef tanks with no controllers, sorry I did have dial timers, and they thrived.

Originally Posted by andywe

As far as modules being a gimmick?? Bah..your reaching there. It allows me to change, upgrade, reconfigure, and remove certain functions without having to remove the whole system. Since the reference was made about computers on tanks, why on earth would I want an all in one so that when 1 component fails the whole thing has to go back for repair?? I had an issue and was able to remove only that part..there is something very good about that.

This is coming from the guy who has to buy the latest "module" released as soon as it comes out.

You are correct in modular is better in some aspects, but what if your head unit fails I would only have 3 things (ph, temp and aquasurf) that would have a chance at failing. You odds are higher with 10 modules.

Originally Posted by andywe

Last, I am always curious why the Apex looks so much alike the RKE..other than Kurt was forced to come up with something quick. Things with the AC line never moved along..new functions beyond what came out were never part of his MO. When I was researching controllers to buy, this was in fact a sentiment I heard from several people and validated researching on the web. It's a one man shop at Neptune so that is a risk as well.

Man you are so right there! I bet he had spies. Come on Andy, what other design would you make? A fish shaped controller or one shaped like a heart? I think Neptune kept a simple box design, just like RKE did. So if thats the case then DA copied Neptunes's idea of a controller to control your Reef system . I hate to tell ya, but Neptune has been around a lot longer than DA. Those types of arguments are really just pointless.



The real moral of the story is choose the controller that is right for you. like i said earlier everyone has different reasons for their controller and thats what makes this hobby fun. To me more gadgets or modules means more things to fail. This will be a never ending back and forth spar. I love it

[tkimmons85]

Well I took all the advice and I found what controller best fit my needs and I didnt pay top dollar for a used one. I bought the aquacontroller Jr with a ph probe and dc-8. Should come in the mail soon.

[commonstranger]

I would agree with the point that the more gadgets you have (no matter what it is or what its contols) there is more chance for problems. Convenience is nice but Im not one that likes autopilot.

[poolkeeper1]

As far as the Salinity probe goes, After several weeks of use and the three recommended calibrations I'm disappointed. It read close at first then has steadily creeped to a lower # than my water could possibly be. My water level Is monitored by ATO and does not fluctuate at all, So why Is there this constant change In Salinity by the probe and all In one direction. I have not had time to contact DA yet but I will as from what I see It don't work, At least this probe don't.
Bill

[NeveSSL]

Originally Posted by tkimmons85

Well I took all the advice and I found what controller best fit my needs and I didnt pay top dollar for a used one. I bought the aquacontroller Jr with a ph probe and dc-8. Should come in the mail soon.

Awesome! I'm glad you were able to see through everyone's bickering and got what works for ya.

As far as controller shape, I'm thinking a kelp-shaped unit would be nice. Although fish-shaped doesn't sound too bad, either.

And Rick, you do have to admit they are uncannily similar. Every other controller out there has a different design. Really and truly they are mostly square, but the Apex even has the same button layout. A bit annoying to me, anyway.

Brandon