Redspot Cardinalfish - Apogon parvulus

[espocrespo]

Apogon parvulus Redspot Cardinalfish. Does any have any experience with these, and any information to share, as im thinking of adding some to my frag tank, just liven it up a bit.

[Jared J]

hard to find, high death rate in captivity and they don't take transport well. I read recently that high flow rates help them feed as it keep the cyclopeez floating. I'd love to find some too but they are not to be found.

[Elysia]

If you just want some movement in a frag tank, why not switch some brackish mollies over to full salt? They'll likely pick at algae, to boot. And they'll be much hardier.

[tcmfish]

The parvulus just don't make it. Liveaquaria DD had a group of I think three a couple days ago, but that is a waste of money. If you want to have any success at all, I'd recommend a huge group of like 20 and see how many make it. That being said liveaquaria is probably your best source for them and only one of a few places I've seen them for sale.

[Jared J]

Originally Posted by Elysia

If you just want some movement in a frag tank, why not switch some brackish mollies over to full salt? They'll likely pick at algae, to boot. And they'll be much hardier.

Wow, has anyone done this? How long does it take to acclimate them to saltwater? That would definitely look different.

[IFbettas]

Mollies are one of the easiest fish to convert to saltwater. Put them in a bucket of freshwater, and everyday raise up the salinity a little until it reaches that of your tank. Then you can just toss them in. Some people put mollies in their tanks as a constant supply of live food. They breed so prolifically that there will often be babies for the other fish to eat.

[DFS]

Red Spot Glass Cardinalfish- Apogon parvulus have statistically suffered very high mortality rates, due mainly in part from poor post-harvest handling. These fishes need to be fed properly once imported and allowed time to rest and regain body weight before being shipped again.

We have received several great batches of these fish in the past month or so, with little to no mortality. This can be directly attributed to proper handling and conditioning. Once they arrive to us, holding them with small, less active and passive fish, and with intensive conditioning for a few weeks, they are rock solid fish.

I would agree that these fish can suffer extremely high mortality rates, but with the proper handling and conditioning there are good ones available.

I snapped this pic last week of one fish from a group of 12 that are all fat, happy and thriving.



Cheers,

[Jared J]

Hey Kevin, can you get on a DFS waiting list for those if they come back in? Also, what kinds of foods are you feeding them at DFS to condition them?

[DFS]

Originally Posted by Jared J

Hey Kevin, can you get on a DFS waiting list for those if they come back in? Also, what kinds of foods are you feeding them at DFS to condition them?

Jared,
Unfortunately we do not have a waiting list, but keep an eye out this week in the Divers Den for some more of them. I have had the best results stating them off on Cyclopeeze and Ova (prawn eggs), then enriched small mysis and enriched spirulina brine shrimp. After a few weeks they consume almost any prepared foods that they can fit into their mouths.

Regards,

[Elysia]

Its very easy to convert mollies, especially if they started in brackish water. Actually, I've only have experience with brackish mollies. Black mollies and sailfin mollies can easily be converted. I've done it in as little as 12 hours with no harmful affects. I've known people who have converted fancy guppies, but they have converted them over a longer period of time. Just something to consider.

[tcmfish]

Kevin I think it would be awesome if you could keep some and document their success! I have heard of others who have had them eating and they still didn't make it: http://www.marinebreeder.org/phpbb/v...p?f=165&t=1060

[uhuru]

Could a group of these fish be kept with a group of 10 blue eye cardinals in a 150g tank?

[tcmfish]

You can always try. I don't think aggression would be the problem, just keeping the parvulus would be the problem.

[DFS]

Tim,
I read through the thread on the MOFIB forum and have a great deal of respect for Peter n Belgium, who I converse with from time to time as he is a diehard fish enthusiast and has a true passion for marine fishes. Peter has helped advance the hobby in so many ways in Europe and that iformation eventually makes it way to the states to the benefit of all of us.

Their discussion on this species took place in the fall of 2007 through early 2008, which coincides to the time these fishes first appeared in the marine ornamentals industry in any significant numbers. This was also the time when these fishes were suffering from extreme mortality due to the problems I listed at the beginning of this thread.

I have seen this countless times with new species that enter the trade. Most attempt this fish once or twice, and then immediately write off a particular species. In most cases the problems associated with their demise are beyond our control, and start with poor collection practices, improper handling, very long chains of custody, or poor packaging protocols from overseas suppliers which all negatively impact the fishes’ survival rate.

On advantage of working with good, knowledgeable suppliers and exporters is having the ability to communicate effectively so that issues can be identified, addressed and corrected when needed.

From what I have seen recently is a turn in a very positive direction with this species from what I experienced when handling them in 2008. I will set aside a group of A. parvulus as you have suggested and document my findings which hopefully will be beneficial to everyone, because I feel these fish can do well in home aquaria, and would make a great candidate for an intensive captive breeding program.

Cheers,

[DFason]

Very cool Kevin! I started with a group of 10 in my tank. One by one a few would die and then I was left with 4. I put them in 3-4 weeks after I had my tank set up so it was VERY new. I've lost two now but only to my stupidity, they went for a ride in the overflow.

I still have a pair and they are reaching one year in my tank. I want to try a group of 10-15 again because I now feel like I know what they need...

1. Tons of flow. My pair are ALWAYS swimming in front my my Vortech ( before I only had two 6025's and I dont think this was enough for them).

2. Feeding 2-3 times a day. Like Kevin said, start with small stuff and after that they will eat EVERYTHING. The best results I have are when the lights go out, the pair will eat every last drop. If I turn the Vortech on feeding mode and the food stops moving they will ignore the food, so I leave it on Lagoon just for them.

3. Having docile tank mates. I dont have an aggressive tank ( Grade B Clown, Sailfin Blenny, couple gobies and a Flame Angel ).

4. Open rock work so they can swim. Mine never go through the rocks, always open water.

I'm no expert but once they get adjusted to your tank its an easy ride!

-Dave

[DFason]

Sorry for the bad picture.

[tcmfish]

Kevin I know you got the hook ups for great fish, and it would be great to see this fish become available and do well as I think pictures don't do them justice and that is AWESOME you are willing to document your success with them, I wish you the best of luck with them.

Also Kevin... do you know if the Apogon parvulus in this aquarium (video by Jake Adams) are still alive? I don't know how long they have been in there or if they are still in there.

[DFS]

Tim,
Thank you for your kind words. Unfortunately I have never been to the shop where Jake shot the footage, and dont have any knowledge of the aquarium or the fish.

Regards,

[Jared J]

Where are these guys collected from? I can't wait to hopefully get some.

[Jared J]

bump

[tcmfish]

Jake confirmed that those Red Spots in the video I posted were not still alive... apparently the borbonius anthias started to eat some and some just didn't live that long.

And fishbase says Japan and the Philippines.

[tcmfish]

The person who started the bonsai inspired reef who has a really long thread, crazy4acros, is the only person that I know of that has kept them for any long period of time. I just checked the thread and it looks like he still has them.

[DFS]

Originally Posted by Jared J

Where are these guys collected from? I can't wait to hopefully get some.

These fish are mainly exported out of Cebu, Philippines.

Cheers,

[ADAsFinest]

I just want to start out and say the liveaqueria is the $#!?. They are the best in my mind only place I'll buy from. I just bought 8 red dot cardinals and only have 4 left but 3 did not make it here and the other one got pushed out of the school and died. The four I have left eat everything and look great thanks DD

[crazy4acros]

Originally Posted by tcmfish

The person who started the bonsai inspired reef who has a really long thread, crazy4acros, is the only person that I know of that has kept them for any long period of time. I just checked the thread and it looks like he still has them.

Thanks tcmfish for directing me to this thread, my experience with this fish has been the same as most of you. I have added 10 and had 3 survive then added another 10 about a month after and had 3 survive from that batch so for about 10 months i had 6 going strong eating very well. I currently have 2 left and it's been 14 months since i added them to my system. However i did not loose the last 4 to health issues. I found 3 that decided to go carpet surfing and one that went and took a journey down the overflow and got caught in the turbulence of my filter sock. I blame the aggressiveness of my Holanthias borbonius (Blotched Anthia) they would often break up any shoaling with the cardinals, i don't think they are trying to eat them but i cant really say they don't have the intent. The Red Spots love to swim out in the open and near the top of the surface of my tank, which is probably because thats where my current is at it's strongest. I suspect the Anthias would spook these cardinals to the point of jumping out of the water as a quick getaway and cause 3 of them one by one to jump too far off the edgeand also the other to get sucked up into the overflow box.

As far as feeding i would start these guys with Hikari frozen brine to entice them in to eating, then after a week i would throw in some tetra flakes in to the mix and get them to start eating dried foods. Once they start eating they will eat anything you place in the tank that will fit in their mouth. I have had great success with vitamin packed dry foods like Formula 1&2 and Dainichi baby pellets which is the only thing i have been feeding these guys. I credit these foods for the success rate I have with these fishes, that along with water quality of course.

I honestly feel that it is very possible to keep these guys thriving in our system, but i think these guys will be a lot more happier in a species dedicated tank. If i could do it all over again i would have done this for these little guys. I have notice that once you get these guys adjusted to your system and eating well which by the way is the biggest tasks to overcome. Keeping water parameters stable and stress free living environment is the only variable to keeping these guys alive. I am by no means an expert to these spices i am just sharing my experiences.