A ~19,000 Gallon Aquarium

[mr.wilson]

What is the shoreline stability like? Is there a historical record of very high tides or flooding of any kind? You mentioned that your family has a fishing history. Perhaps they can shed some light on the subject. Do you have an action plan if the sea level climbs to that of the tank? Is this possible?

[Reefski's]

good question.

what is the annual fluctuations in the water temps, just off shore from your tank? did you ever measure temps in the fish system? what part of the year was it running?

Carl

[nahham]

Originally Posted by mr.wilson

What is the shoreline stability like? Is there a historical record of very high tides or flooding of any kind? You mentioned that your family has a fishing history. Perhaps they can shed some light on the subject. Do you have an action plan if the sea level climbs to that of the tank? Is this possible?

How do you come up with these questions? OK at the highest tide when the moon is full and the wolf-people are out, we still have at least a meter or so of the 'wall' that separates the sea from our 'backyard'. Look at this picture:



The water never goes over the overflow opening (if you can spot it. Hint: it is next to the hanging 4" pipe).

I don't remember any flood of any kind and haven't heard of anyone talking about it either. It might of happened or will happen, but then if the water ever reaches the tank, I hope it bring even better species to the tank, that's my plan and I"m sticking with it .

Originally Posted by Reefski's

good question.

what is the annual fluctuations in the water temps, just off shore from your tank? did you ever measure temps in the fish system? what part of the year was it running?

Carl

As for water temperature fluctuations, I have absolutely no idea. The people from the ministry did measure the temperature at the fish tank when it was summer (really hot here) and said "it was good" and they spotted no difference between the fish tank and the sea nearby even at deeper waters. I really can't recall the temperature though. Furthermore, I think the well will provide a stable water supply in many aspects, especially regarding the temperature, usually colder as well.

I will be sending water samples from the well to be tested soon, stay tuned..

[mr.wilson]

I think there was something in the bible about a flood

[Mr T-reefer]

I had a 8gal surge tank on my 80gal reef tank for 13 months and it was pretty strong. The factors that I can see that determines the surge strength is the exhaust pipe diameter, the total volume in the surge tank, in my case 8gallons, and how fast the surge tanks fill up.

You might want to try several smaller ones throughout the tank rather than one or two large ones in hopes that they will cover everything; but in your case "small" is big for the rest of us.

Another thing is that you may want to set it up so that the surge exhausts are not too close to the rocks or have them blow through mini canyons that you created with your rock

_____canyon wall
- - -> surge flow head on view: \*/
_____canyon wall

To get a decent flow if your only going to use surge devices, I would recommend that the total sum of surge volumes be 8-10% of your tank voulme (mine was 8gal on a 80gal tank, so it was 10%). You can go lower of course since this may be difficult with such a large tank, but the closer to these values, the better off you will be. Just my educated opinion.

[nahham]

Originally Posted by Mr T-reefer

I had a 8gal surge tank on my 80gal reef tank for 13 months and it was pretty strong. The factors that I can see that determines the surge strength is the exhaust pipe diameter, the total volume in the surge tank, in my case 8gallons, and how fast the surge tanks fill up.

You might want to try several smaller ones throughout the tank rather than one or two large ones in hopes that they will cover everything; but in your case "small" is big for the rest of us.

Another thing is that you may want to set it up so that the surge exhausts are not too close to the rocks or have them blow through mini canyons that you created with your rock

_____canyon wall
- - -> surge flow head on view: \*/
_____canyon wall

To get a decent flow if your only going to use surge devices, I would recommend that the total sum of surge volumes be 8-10% of your tank voulme (mine was 8gal on a 80gal tank, so it was 10%). You can go lower of course since this may be difficult with such a large tank, but the closer to these values, the better off you will be. Just my educated opinion.

Thank you for the information and insight. I am shying away from the surge tank idea just because I do not have a place to put the surge tank that doesn't cover the view of the sea. I really like the idea but implementation is turning to out to be more complicated that anticipated.

I am, however, getting 2 pretty powerful (~72,000 gph) submersible pumps and will be alternating between them. They are also energy efficient: someone told me it uses around 600watts .

[mr.wilson]

I think you will be fine without the surge device. Even a large unit would be like a drop in the ocean or however the saying goes

The prop pumps are the only way to go with a large exhibit like yours, and you can't complain about 1,200 watts for 144,000 GPH. Play around with the settings to catch the wave or however that saying goes

Did you ever look at ozonizers? They are a cost effective method of controlling water quality, algae blooms and disease in large systems. Phytoplankton blooms (free floating algae) are not uncommon with outdoor exhibits. You would probably need a 10 gram per hour unit for your application.

You can control ozone dosing with a redox controller and introduce it with an external gas reactor or a venturi valve. http://www.mazzei.net/products/injector_info.htm

Because the system is outside, you don't have the same residual ozone issues that apply to public aquariums.

[tonyf]

Originally Posted by mr.wilson

I think there was something in the bible about a flood

That's funny

Great looking project ... I look forward to seeing it complete.

Tone

[Pylon]

All of this for a pair of clownfish... Amazing.

On serious note keep up the good work, I've only read the first couple of pages so far, but I'll catch up on everything soon!

[KarlBob]

Originally Posted by mr.wilson

I think you will be fine without the surge device. Even a large unit would be like a drop in the ocean or however the saying goes

The prop pumps are the only way to go with a large exhibit like yours, and you can't complain about 1,200 watts for 144,000 GPH. Play around with the settings to catch the wave or however that saying goes

I agree. I think this system can run perfectly well without a surge device.

Can you control the flow levels of these pumps? If so, it's possible to create waves and simulate surge flow without having a surge device. There are some pretty impressive videos out there showing the wave action that can be generated by prop pumps with wavemakers.

[danv]

Nahham, I have been following this thread since the beginning and most say it is one of the most informative threads I have seen and it helps out or at least inform all us beginners about the possibilities laying in this hobby, you just take it to the point where I would like to go, but not likely can go. I will be looking forward to see the tank up running and hope to be able to see it IRL when I am comming to UAE.

[nahham]

Originally Posted by tonyf

That's funny

Great looking project ... I look forward to seeing it complete.

Tone

Thanks for stopping by.

Originally Posted by Pylon

All of this for a pair of clownfish... Amazing.

On serious note keep up the good work, I've only read the first couple of pages so far, but I'll catch up on everything soon!

A pair of clownfish and a blue tang . Welcome aboard .

Originally Posted by upnext

wow 19,000 gal.!

It's ~19,000, just to be truthful..

Originally Posted by danv

Nahham, I have been following this thread since the beginning and most say it is one of the most informative threads I have seen and it helps out or at least inform all us beginners about the possibilities laying in this hobby, you just take it to the point where I would like to go, but not likely can go. I will be looking forward to see the tank up running and hope to be able to see it IRL when I am comming to UAE.

I'm happy that you like the thread and learning from it, I'm sure I am. There is a bunch of really great people on this forum willing to help anyway they can, and I'm truly grateful for each and every contribution to this thread by each and everyone of you .

You are welcome whenever you are in the UAE to come and see the tank. I just hope it will be ready and that the weather isn't that bad to sit outside.

[miztic]

Absolutely fantastic project! I can't wait to see it up and running!

I have a bit of a question, some people earlier in the thread already touched on this, but I didn't really see a reply, are you planning to introduce any non-native species to your tank? if so, I don't think you can pump the tank water back into the ocean, or you'll risk introducing an invasive species (a la http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caulerpa_taxifolia ), the US has strict laws against doing that I believe.

[mr.wilson]

The effluent water from the tank can be drained into the sand away from the shore or you can dump it into super salinated shallow tanks that evaporate most of it. Whatever doesn't evaporate will be sterilized by the resulting high salinity. If you really want to be thorough, you can throw some slow release sodium hypochlorite (bleach) pucks and let them kill off znything living. Just make sure the bleach off-gasses before you return that water to the sea. A pool chlorine test kit is all you need. You can use sodium thiosulfate to dechlorinate instantly.

One thing to watch is elevated salinity in the tank due to evaporation. You may need a slow drip of pure freshwater to keep salinity in check.

[Rascalson]

Originally Posted by nahham

Thanks for stopping by.

A pair of clownfish and a blue tang . Welcome aboard .

Uhoh now you've done it. I would expect a visit from the Tang police

[KarlBob]

Originally Posted by miztic

Are you planning to introduce any non-native species to your tank? if so, I don't think you can pump the tank water back into the ocean, or you'll risk introducing an invasive species (a la http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caulerpa_taxifolia ), the US has strict laws against doing that I believe.

You might be slightly confused between USA and UAE. Two out of three letters are the same, but they're different countries. Also, the strictest Caulerpa-related laws in the US are state laws in Florida and California; the federal law is less restrictive.

As far as non-natives in the tank are concerned, I don't think Nahham has made a formal declaration either way. If I recall correctly, I believe the plan is to start with natives, because they'll require less acclimation to local conditions. After that, we'll see what Nahham decides to do. One thing he's mentioned as a barrier to some invasive species is the farm-load of hungry fish between the aquarium and the sea. The fish farm won't stop everything, but it should be pretty effective quarantine for some things.

[miztic]

Originally Posted by KarlBob

You might be slightly confused between USA and UAE. Two out of three letters are the same, but they're different countries. Also, the strictest Caulerpa-related laws in the US are state laws in Florida and California; the federal law is less restrictive.

As far as non-natives in the tank are concerned, I don't think Nahham has made a formal declaration either way. If I recall correctly, I believe the plan is to start with natives, because they'll require less acclimation to local conditions. After that, we'll see what Nahham decides to do. One thing he's mentioned as a barrier to some invasive species is the farm-load of hungry fish between the aquarium and the sea. The fish farm won't stop everything, but it should be pretty effective quarantine for some things.

Altho I didn't explicitly state it, it was part of my question to see if the UAE has similar laws as the US.. and not just related to caulerpa but any kind of more general law that says you can't flush aquarium water into the environment, I was under the impression there is such a thing in the US.

I did see he mentioned wanting to start with local species first. I'm not sure if the farm fish will do anything to stop weird algea spores or anything else that's not "food size". I rather liked the other suggestion of just flushing stuff onto the sand and let it go back into the ground water.

[KarlBob]

Originally Posted by miztic

Altho I didn't explicitly state it, it was part of my question to see if the UAE has similar laws as the US.. and not just related to caulerpa but any kind of more general law that says you can't flush aquarium water into the environment, I was under the impression there is such a thing in the US.

I don't know about the UAE, but I can check on the US side.

I did see he mentioned wanting to start with local species first. I'm not sure if the farm fish will do anything to stop weird algea spores or anything else that's not "food size". I rather liked the other suggestion of just flushing stuff onto the sand and let it go back into the ground water.

I agree. Spores could get through the fish farm. As for the flushing idea, I suppose Nahham could build an infiltration pond. It might have to be dredged periodically, to maintain a good percolation rate, but it should work.

[KarlBob]

About an hour later, here's the best quote I've found, from this US Fish and Wildlife Service/US Geological Survey publication:

Whatever the reason, releasing exotic fish into local waters is not a good idea, and in some places it may be illegal.

As the quote says, it's only illegal in some places (mostly in California and Florida, but releases in Texas and the Great Lakes states may also fall under some state and federal laws). If anyone can find a national law that makes it illegal to introduce any and all non-native organisms to any and all US waters, I'd be glad to hear about it.

[H20ENG]

I agree with the ozone being a great tool for a semi closed system like this. It will help clarify the water, as well as help the overall health of the system.

If the ozone generator is large enough, some of its output could be put to use for the above mentioned de-con settling tank before being flushed out. Keep in mind that this would be a much larger dosage for sterilization than the prophylactic dosage that would be given to the aquarium. This then raises the question of controls and prevention of overdose to the aquarium.

I have not studied them for seawater use, but a salt based chlorine generator (from a swimming pool) may be easier to setup for an application like that.

The project is looking amazing!

Oh, and your link to the article is bad. I'd like to have a look

[H20ENG]

PLEASE put some plywood over the glass panels until the construction is completed! We will all have a huge heartache for you if one gets scratched or broken!

I have to also ask about the electrical boxes in the columns on what looks to be the inside of the tank?? How will these be waterproofed? Or do mine eyes deceive me? Fiber optic?

Keep up the good work Nahham

[koralkrab125]

WOW i am amazed. personally for livestock for a tank this size i think a sea tortoise would be sweet, it would be the coolest

[nahham]

OK a little bit of clarification regarding the livestock:

I will definitely start with local species. When I am sure everything is going well (if it ever does) I might introduce something else. As it stands now though, there will be no 'foreign' species in the aquarium. And when I decide to add anything from outside the local habitat, I'll sure take all your consideration into account, even if we don't have laws to make dumping the aquarium water back to the sea (I'm not sure if we do). I will like to be environmentally cautious/safe/considerate.

It would be hard to see anything 'exotic' living in the sea by me though; the salinity is very high for anything other than hardy local fish (I think it's somewhere around 40PPM). Open waters here are closer to 30PPM.

Thank you all for caring about my local environment as well .

[morphiii]

R U KIDDING ME?

Great job. Can't wait to see it finished. Reserve me a ticket in the front row!!

[nahham]

Originally Posted by morphiii

R U KIDDING ME?

Great job. Can't wait to see it finished. Reserve me a ticket in the front row!!

Thanks for stopping by. Seat reserved, are you going to pay by credit card or cash?

I have some updates coming up soon, stay tuned..