Reef Central Online Community

Home Forum Here you can view your subscribed threads, work with private messages and edit your profile and preferences View New Posts View Today's Posts

Find other members Frequently Asked Questions Search Reefkeeping ...an online magazine for marine aquarists Support our sponsors and mention Reef Central

Go Back   Reef Central Online Community > Marine Fish Forums > Fish Disease Treatment
Register Blogs FAQ Calendar Mark Forums Read

Notices

Reply
Thread Tools
Old 06/13/2013, 10:54 PM   #76
jessemac
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Monroe, MI
Posts: 21
Great thread, a lot of good information here. I didn't come across this one when I was doing all my research. Either way, I think I would have made the same choices for my current situation dealing with ICH. Thread posted.


jessemac is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08/26/2013, 08:49 PM   #77
Chicago
Registered Member
 
Chicago's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: earth
Posts: 3,249
ok here is my question on this sticky.. if the QT tank which we use to observe becomes infested what then.. I am thinking of running my QT tank with copper or methan blue 24/7 as my fish come in and then put in the qt for two to three weeks observe.. and keep in if have signs..

thoughts


__________________
"If the thunder don't get you
then the lightning will"
..famous poet..

Current Tank Info: 500 gal starphire, reef sps dominated, 40 plus fish, 300 gallon sump in basement below, reeftek calcium reactor, reeftek kalkwasser reactor, lifeguard fluidized filter for rowaphose, 4 400MH 10k xm, 2 160 vho super attinic, DYI 50 gallon denitrator
Chicago is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08/27/2013, 01:51 PM   #78
Giovanni
AKA Flippa
 
Giovanni's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: KY
Posts: 2,244
Blog Entries: 8
If you suspect a fish coming in to be sick, set up a HT and treat there before going to your QT. This is what I am doing. Some fish will not tolerate copper at all and must be treated by other means anyway. Also copper is hard on all fish. Keep a couple of sponges in your DT sump just incase you need to setup a HT for a new fish.

If your QT gets infected, set up another, clean the first one or just leave the first one FALLOW for a period of time.


__________________
Giovanni

Most of My Money I Spent On Whiskey, Women and Reefing, The Rest I Just Waisted!

Current Tank Info: 180 Mixed Reef
Giovanni is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09/17/2013, 01:22 PM   #79
wizard13
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Boston, MA
Posts: 26
I've had a batch of fish, anthias, cardinals, a potters angel and a 2" chevron tang that have been in QT for 4 weeks. All eating great with no signs of disease. I'm torn about whether or not to dose copper or other medication for ick when everyone looks great. At this point nothing has been added to tank. I was thinking another 2-4 weeks before moving to display but no meds. What is the consensus? Thanks.


wizard13 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09/17/2013, 01:44 PM   #80
Giovanni
AKA Flippa
 
Giovanni's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: KY
Posts: 2,244
Blog Entries: 8
Unless there is sign of disease then do not treat. Go slow and observe longer if you only suspect something. If you see no signs for 6-8 weeks then you are probably good. I now do 3-8 weeks depending on the source of the fish. I have 9 fish from ORA in my QT and they will get a minimum of 3 weeks. I give LADD 4 weeks minimum and any fish from the normal chain of custody will get 6-8 weeks. All these times are assuming no signs or symptoms of disease.

I also QT everything that goes in my tank except dry sand or dry rock. This even includes macro algae. You never know what a drop of water from another system has in it! I have been wiped out twice now, both times this year and will not go through that again if at all possible!


__________________
Giovanni

Most of My Money I Spent On Whiskey, Women and Reefing, The Rest I Just Waisted!

Current Tank Info: 180 Mixed Reef
Giovanni is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09/17/2013, 02:45 PM   #81
Turningdoc
Registered Member
 
Turningdoc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 46
IMO Don't run copper unless absolutely necessary. Did it once at 4 wks, "just because" w cupramine. Caused bio filter loss, ammonia spike, and death to everything. Wish I had just waited another 2-3 weeks and been happy.


Turningdoc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09/17/2013, 04:35 PM   #82
Maivortex
Registered Member
 
Maivortex's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: PARADISE, us
Posts: 682
Blog Entries: 1
IMO , if I am going thru all the trouble of quarantine before the DT, i am treating the QT tank. The fish can show no signs of Ich for >8 weeks but still be carrying it. If you dont treat the QT tank you will introduce ICH into the DT. I dont buy in to "the wait and observe" part of QT fish if we all know that fish can carry ich and show no signs.
Also, I dont understand the tank transfer method. Perhaps I need to read more of Snorvichs blog. How do you leave attacking life stages of Ich behind when the ich on the fish are all at different life stages, some are dropping of to the bottom and some have just settled on the fish.....Can someone explain this for me?



Last edited by Maivortex; 09/17/2013 at 04:42 PM.
Maivortex is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09/17/2013, 04:59 PM   #83
den75
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Kentucky
Posts: 275
Quote:
Originally Posted by Turningdoc View Post
IMO Don't run copper unless absolutely necessary. Did it once at 4 wks, "just because" w cupramine. Caused bio filter loss, ammonia spike, and death to everything. Wish I had just waited another 2-3 weeks and been happy.
I treated prophylactically with cupramine in my qt on a seemingly healthy fish. No problem with an ammonia spike. Started ramping up the dosage slowly. By the time I got to half the desired level the fish(purple firefish) started showing signs of stress. Did a large water change, put the carbon back in the filter to get the cupramine out and in 12 hrs the fish was dead. Needless to say this made me re-think the strategy of treating in Qt when there is no sign of disease.


__________________
150g Reef Savvy DT. 55g Sump, Reef Octopus 3000 Int. Skimmer, 2 Maxspect Razor 27" 16k lights, Water Blaster 7000 return. 2 Vortech MP40's, Apex Controller, Genesis Reef ATO and Auto H2O change Syst.
den75 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 09/18/2013, 05:36 PM   #84
Deinonych
Registered Member
 
Deinonych's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Austin, TX
Posts: 4,193
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maivortex View Post
Also, I dont understand the tank transfer method. Perhaps I need to read more of Snorvichs blog. How do you leave attacking life stages of Ich behind when the ich on the fish are all at different life stages, some are dropping of to the bottom and some have just settled on the fish.....Can someone explain this for me?
The only stage on the fish is the trophont (feeding) stage. Trophonts feed for 3-7 days then drop off to become protomonts. Tank transfer exploits the life cycle by getting rid of all stages except the trophont stage. Eventually, all of the trophonts will fall off during the TTM timeframe, leaving none to reinfect the fish.


__________________
Chris

Hope is not a strategy.
Display Tank: DSA 105 w/36gal sump/fuge 2x MP40wES PHs 2x Radion Gen2 Apex w/PM2 Fish Corals Rock Sand Water
Deinonych is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09/19/2013, 10:17 AM   #85
wizard13
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Boston, MA
Posts: 26
Oh boy, arguments to both sides. My first batch of fish I performed 8 weeks in QT with cupramine for 4 weeks and I lost a few fish too. Not sure if that was due to treatment or just that they were sickly coming in. Especially with having an Angel in this batch, I'm certainly second guessing.


wizard13 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09/19/2013, 12:20 PM   #86
Giovanni
AKA Flippa
 
Giovanni's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: KY
Posts: 2,244
Blog Entries: 8
Copper acts a neurotoxin as well as affecting other systems. Most of the time if the fish dies related to Copper it will respire rappidly, not feed, and have directional confusion. Eventually it will act like it has a seizure, bounce all over the tank and immediately sink to the bottom fins fully erect not breathing. Just before this happens some but not all fish will display directional confusion swimming into things and many times will try to swim down even though it is on the bottom. If you see the seizure, remove the fish from the copper and place it in front of a power head so that water is moving through its gills for oxygen/CO2 exchange. When the fish starts breathing on its own place it in a small container with an air stone and keep it dark. It will not swim correctly or even hold its self upright for hours. I have saved two fish like this. One 8 inch naso tang died weeks later refusing to eat and the other 5 inch blue face angle has survived over 6 months.


__________________
Giovanni

Most of My Money I Spent On Whiskey, Women and Reefing, The Rest I Just Waisted!

Current Tank Info: 180 Mixed Reef
Giovanni is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11/30/2013, 11:11 AM   #87
MisterP
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: TN
Posts: 411
Arrow

Hey guys .. After reading through this and wondering about QTng all rock, snails, coral , etc. I'm thinking for non-fish QT could it work just as well to do a Lugols or Hyd peroxide dip for these rather than having a full on QT for everything?

Since ich needs fish to feed on and most rock and coral are housed separately from most vendors and the trophent stage is about a week would it even be possible to spread ich from these sources?

Maybe my thought process is flawed so please help me On this.

Is Lugols safe for all non-fish dip procedures?



Last edited by MisterP; 11/30/2013 at 11:13 AM. Reason: Dip
MisterP is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03/02/2014, 07:15 AM   #88
boca rat
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: St Augustine, FL
Posts: 200
Hey, just read through all this.

I got hit by bad outbreak of ich/velvet about 3 months back (see other thread), and this was the first time in more than 10 years in the hobby. I was more or less wiped out.

I am now reintroducing survivors from my Hospital tank as DT was fish-free for 3 months.

So I am now faced with the dilemma - QT or not QT, or rather, HT or no HT? I have started with a new angel fish from the LFS and have treated with copper as can't go through the Ich thing again. Planning on treating for 10 days and then move over to DT.

Not sure on the agreement here, thoughts? And should I treat for bacterial as well?

Thx


boca rat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03/04/2014, 10:30 AM   #89
Deinonych
Registered Member
 
Deinonych's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Austin, TX
Posts: 4,193
Quote:
Originally Posted by boca rat View Post
So I am now faced with the dilemma - QT or not QT, or rather, HT or no HT? I have started with a new angel fish from the LFS and have treated with copper as can't go through the Ich thing again. Planning on treating for 10 days and then move over to DT.

Not sure on the agreement here, thoughts? And should I treat for bacterial as well?

Thx
10 days is not long enough to ensure the fish is free of parasites, namely cryptocaryon. The consensus here is 4 weeks of Cupramine at 0.40mg/l to ensure the parasite has gone through its entire life cycle and is eradicated. I personally don't treat for bacterial infections unless symptoms are present.


__________________
Chris

Hope is not a strategy.
Display Tank: DSA 105 w/36gal sump/fuge 2x MP40wES PHs 2x Radion Gen2 Apex w/PM2 Fish Corals Rock Sand Water
Deinonych is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03/04/2014, 11:05 AM   #90
boca rat
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: St Augustine, FL
Posts: 200
I understood 10 days of copper treatment would take care parasites in any stage, no? This is a fresh HT BTW, not a display tank.


boca rat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03/04/2014, 04:45 PM   #91
snorvich
Team RC member
 
snorvich's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Outlander
Posts: 41,248
Blog Entries: 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by boca rat View Post
I understood 10 days of copper treatment would take care parasites in any stage, no? This is a fresh HT BTW, not a display tank.
No.


snorvich is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03/04/2014, 09:19 PM   #92
Deinonych
Registered Member
 
Deinonych's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Austin, TX
Posts: 4,193
Quote:
Originally Posted by boca rat View Post
I understood 10 days of copper treatment would take care parasites in any stage, no? This is a fresh HT BTW, not a display tank.
No, copper only affects the free-swimming theront stage. It does not affect the feeding (trophont) or encysted (tomont) stages. This is why keeping therapeutic dosages consistent is so critical, especially at night when the theronts are released.


__________________
Chris

Hope is not a strategy.
Display Tank: DSA 105 w/36gal sump/fuge 2x MP40wES PHs 2x Radion Gen2 Apex w/PM2 Fish Corals Rock Sand Water
Deinonych is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06/29/2014, 08:04 PM   #93
jalisco
Registered Member
 
jalisco's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: North Bay Area, Peoples Republic of Kalifornia
Posts: 331
I can't believe how many times I changed what I was going to do while reading this. I also can't believe people have the audacity to not read the entire thread and expect those nice enough to share years of heart break and success to answer questions already covered in the same thread.
Thank you to everyone who has shared. Before I read this I was about to make a 5 hour round trip to buy a complete running 60 gal with LR, sand, filtration and led lighting for $200 to use as a QT and HT. I was going to use the live rock in my 29 DT, sell/give away/throw away the live sand as not my color preference.
Now I plan on starting my DT with CaribSea’s Arag-Alive and Aquaroche and/or RealReef. Use a 20 gal HT and treat every fish that will tolerate it with Cupramine and prazi and another 20 gal for fishless quarantine of corals and macro.
Can inverts be quarantined in the same tank and at the same time as the corals and macro? Can I just put coral, inverts and macro directly into brand new just cycled DT/sump 8 weeks prior to introduction of fish?


jalisco is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07/10/2014, 09:35 AM   #94
mbauma
Registered Member
 
mbauma's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Stillwater, MN
Posts: 476
Ok, looking for suggestions.

QT background, it is a 20 gallon long with water from my DT. It has heater, pvc tube, HOB filter with bio wheel and bare bottom. Also has ammonia alert in it. I assume the wheel section will turn color if it's at that level. Mine has not turned any color yet, but the package said could take a few days to register.

I have a new 140 gallon tank with 1 yellow wrasse and a cleanup crew. I have 3 lyretail antheas in QT since Tuesday. They came from LA/DD and look great and have been eating frozen mysis since day 1.

Do I just
1. observe them for 4 to 6 weeks and put them in DT
2. treat with Prazi in QT using prescribed methods and put in DT
3. treat with cuprimine in QT using prescribed methods and put in DT
4. treat with both in QT and put in DT

I have read through everything, just looking for a consensus I guess.

Thanks,

Michael.


mbauma is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07/10/2014, 12:38 PM   #95
Deinonych
Registered Member
 
Deinonych's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Austin, TX
Posts: 4,193
5. Treat with Prazi, then do tank transfer followed by 30 days of observation.


__________________
Chris

Hope is not a strategy.
Display Tank: DSA 105 w/36gal sump/fuge 2x MP40wES PHs 2x Radion Gen2 Apex w/PM2 Fish Corals Rock Sand Water
Deinonych is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07/10/2014, 08:01 PM   #96
RuggerReef
Registered Member
 
RuggerReef's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Noblesville, IN
Posts: 54
I want to setup my QT tomorrow. I have just about all I need besides a few odds and ends. I know that is suggested that the back, bottom and sides be painted black. I was wondering if I could paint them a dark blue? I have a spray can of navy blue paint with nothing to use it on.


RuggerReef is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07/10/2014, 08:19 PM   #97
snorvich
Team RC member
 
snorvich's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Outlander
Posts: 41,248
Blog Entries: 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by RuggerReef View Post
I want to setup my QT tomorrow. I have just about all I need besides a few odds and ends. I know that is suggested that the back, bottom and sides be painted black. I was wondering if I could paint them a dark blue? I have a spray can of navy blue paint with nothing to use it on.
For me, the issue is contrast which makes observation a bit easier. Nothing magic about a specific color.


__________________
Warmest regards,
~Steve~
snorvich is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07/10/2014, 08:22 PM   #98
snorvich
Team RC member
 
snorvich's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Outlander
Posts: 41,248
Blog Entries: 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by jalisco View Post
I also can't believe people have the audacity to not read the entire thread and expect those nice enough to share years of heart break and success to answer questions already covered in the same thread.
It happens all the time, especially in this forum. We have various stickies that give a lot of useful information, yet people want the same information rewritten. But life goes on, we are here to try and help.


__________________
Warmest regards,
~Steve~
snorvich is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07/17/2014, 05:03 PM   #99
Badlands25
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: New Hampshire
Posts: 98
Currently treating my fish in a 40b with cupramine. Not sure if it's just ich. Only 1 fish out of 3 had a second symptom which was fuzzy patches. The ich looked different on purple tang than on wrasse . Lavender tang never had signs of anything. My question is after a few weeks of copper should I treat for a bacterial or fungal infection or will cupramine handle everything. Also what is the best copper test kit. I use API and have a hard time telling the colors


Badlands25 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08/22/2014, 12:02 PM   #100
Sleepingtiger
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Murphy TX
Posts: 80
tired of ich. i will start to quarantine my fish from now on.
so after reading through this,

the best method for the fish in my DT is to do a tank transfer method.

question, the life cycle calls for trophont to fall off and become the protomont for about 2-18 hours before attaching itself to a surface and become tomont. wouldn't it be better to let the protomont attach itself to the surface before moving the fish to a new tank. Maybe do the transfer in the evening giving the protomont a chance to cyst. If you transfer in the morning, you might get some of the water that contain the protomont and spread it to the new tank. It will then cyst and gave a chance to turn therphonts and reattaching to the fish. I am not questioning the method, just trying to get a clear understanding.

also, why should i let the tank go fallow for 72 days? since the protmont, tomont, and therphonts phase is max 35 days in room temperature.


__________________
JT
90G Rimless Mixed reef - Cree LED's - Reef Octopus XS200 - Reef Angel - Copperband Butterfly, Six Line Wrasse
Sleepingtiger is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Looking for a basic stand for a 210 jfl14609 Upstate Reef Society 0 05/09/2010 01:06 PM
Basic or Basic EX? villious GHL /ProfiLux / Mitras 3 05/04/2009 03:27 PM
SLOreefer's basic 15 gallon...well semi basic... SLOreefer Nano Reefs 27 12/16/2008 09:28 PM


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 04:52 PM.


TapaTalk Enabled

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Powered by Searchlight © 2017 Axivo Inc.
Use of this web site is subject to the terms and conditions described in the user agreement.
Reef CentralTM Reef Central, LLC. Copyright 1999-2014