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Old 05/16/2010, 10:05 PM   #1
kingnai
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Are there laws against trading/selling ?

A local reefer here in Ocala, Florida had an ad out for a Tang for sale she no longer wanted in her tank. She was contacted by a person wanting to buy it he went to her home and made the deal then pulled out a Badge showing he was with Florida Wildlife Commession and said she just broke the law.

He said he could Fine her, confiscate the fish. He ended up writing a warning.

She explained that she was just a hobbiest that no longer wanted the fish.

He told her it was illegal to sell any fish or coral to anyone without a license. Said we couldn't even sell it back to the fish store or trade it for another.

Does this seem right to anyone?

Anyone have any similar experience or knowledge?


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Old 05/16/2010, 10:19 PM   #2
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sounds like a crock to me.... how can you sell the puppies you have if you are not a licensed breeder, or how can anyone have a frag swap with out the swat team raiding them... could be a new show on the Animal channel


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Old 05/16/2010, 10:52 PM   #3
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I agree we just had our local swap and no feds came busting in.


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Old 05/17/2010, 12:26 AM   #4
Ian
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you might ask this question in the Reef Discussion forum...

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/fo...play.php?f=104


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Old 05/17/2010, 01:42 AM   #5
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A mod will likely move this thread to the correct forum...

Can you please get her to scan the written warning?


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Old 05/17/2010, 05:40 AM   #6
brians4671
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with our Ocalca National Forest you would think an officer would have better things to do.


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Old 05/17/2010, 06:03 AM   #7
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I knew it....it's the "Tang Police" on patrol again.................

Seriously tho - FL has the most stringent ( maybe over-reaching?) enforcement of any state when it comes to Fish and Wildlife. I have heard several stories about FL. And - I was the subject of one in particular.

T


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Old 05/17/2010, 06:35 AM   #8
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This thread has been moved to the current forum....


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Old 05/17/2010, 07:51 AM   #9
produceb
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They have to check on the selling in Florida. I catch my own fish for my tank. I know it is illegal for me to go out and catch extra fish and sell them or even trade them for credit with out the reguired commercial fishing licences. I could easily pay for my whole hobby by bringing back extra from my trips to the keys and bahamas.


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Old 05/17/2010, 08:05 AM   #10
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It is not uncommon for enforcement officers to not understand the specifics of the laws as they are not written for every situation. My guess is that any fine in the laypersons selling and trading realm would be unenforceable as long as it was clearly non-commercial, but they can write citations all day long and it is up to you to defend it. It is just how law enforcement works. I would get clarification in the form of an official statement after reading the law. It doesn't appear to address the specific issue of hobbyist level trading, so it will take a court case to force interpretation. Until then, bullying.

In a related story, I once had a conversation with a woman at bureau of labor an industries about per diem requirements and after reading her the specific law, she finally admitted that she was not the person who really knows even though she had previously insisted that the policy was a certain way. It was a pretty major part of the policy too.



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Old 05/17/2010, 08:43 AM   #11
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i think he just wanted the fish for free and used scare tactics to achieve it.


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Old 05/17/2010, 09:59 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mthomp View Post
i think he just wanted the fish for free and used scare tactics to achieve it.
He left the fish


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Old 05/17/2010, 11:12 AM   #13
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I found this:
Saltwater Products License (SPL)
You must have an SPL in order to do any of the following:
Sell, barter or exchange for merchandise any saltwater products


A Wholesale Saltwater Products Dealer License (WD) is required to sell saltwater products to any customer except the consumer and to buy from persons holding an SPL or another licensed wholesale dealer in the counties specified on the license. Wholesale dealers must report purchases to the Commission when products are landed or sold for the first time.

A Retail Saltwater Products Dealer License (RC) is required to sell any saltwater products to the end consumer. A retail dealer may purchase only from a wholesale dealer. The RC is not required when products are prepared for consumption or take-out under a license issued by the Division of Hotels and Restaurants.


A person transporting saltwater products in this state - regardless of destination - must maintain possession of invoices, bills of lading or other similar instruments showing the number of packages, boxes or containers and the number of pounds of each species and the name, physical address and the Florida wholesale dealer number of the dealer of origin.

From here:
http://myfwc.com/license/Saltwater_L...Commercial.htm


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Old 05/17/2010, 11:18 AM   #14
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Another interesting an perhaps paralell thread about the current goings-on in Hawaii

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/sh....php?t=1820710

T


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Old 05/17/2010, 12:05 PM   #15
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If you sell a coral frag out of your tank you must have an aquaculture certificate.

http://www.leg.state.fl.us/Statutes/...ESection%20004

And yes, I have applied for mine (well it's filled out and ready to mail anyway)


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Old 05/17/2010, 12:09 PM   #16
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Maybe having a GIGANTIC frag swap in FL, and swamping the State with paperwork will give them pause...? It may also show the govt. that we *DO* make a difference as hobbyists, in alleviating impact on the envirement, as we can grow many of our own specimens.
Any thoughts?
T


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Old 05/17/2010, 12:24 PM   #17
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Quote:
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with our Ocalca National Forest you would think an officer would have better things to do.
like chase us away while trying to ride our atv's on designated trails!


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Old 05/17/2010, 12:28 PM   #18
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bah humbug!

this guy must of been bored, to be on craigslist looking for "salt water" poachers...


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Old 05/17/2010, 12:29 PM   #19
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I think the Florida Reef Club's need to get together and have a lawyer examine this because if so, many of our clubs are engaging in club sponsored illegal activities!


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Old 05/17/2010, 12:33 PM   #20
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Quote:
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with our Ocalca National Forest you would think an officer would have better things to do.

My thinking is more in line with brians4671 on this one. Just think of the resources wasted to catch people just trading or swapping sw livestock. You would think those resources could be put to better use.

Roughly along the same line: A couple of year's ago, we were visiting my in-laws on Staten Island. I took my son out to spend a couple of hours fishing off of a newly-built fishing pier just nearby. Fish and game wardens came around to check coolers for under-size fish. I REALLY wanted to just tell him the problem's about 5 miles offshore dragging a net about 10 miles long, and he should get on a boat and go out and check their cooler.

Fl certainly has more than its' fair share of non-native wildlife issues, but in this particular case, it can just leave you scratching your head as to whether or not these people have any sense of priorities in how and when to enforce broadly and badly written regulations.

Just more tax dollars hard at work.


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Old 05/17/2010, 12:39 PM   #21
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Maybe the tang was underage


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Old 05/17/2010, 12:47 PM   #22
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maybe the tang was underage
lmfao!


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Old 05/17/2010, 12:54 PM   #23
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What about the guy catching tropical fish illegally then posing as someone who just wants to get rid of the fish? He is taking all he wants, and does not have to keep records and prove how many he caught to anyone. He is taking away from local fish stores when they need all the help they can get. Seems to me that is what they were looking for and when they found out it was not some underground operation she got a warning. Sounds like a job well done.


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Old 05/17/2010, 01:02 PM   #24
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What about the guy catching tropical fish illegally then posing as someone who just wants to get rid of the fish? He is taking all he wants, and does not have to keep records and prove how many he caught to anyone. He is taking away from local fish stores when they need all the help they can get. Seems to me that is what they were looking for and when they found out it was not some underground operation she got a warning. Sounds like a job well done.

WTH? where/when did this happen? was it on the orlando slantinal?

Do you have a link to this story? This game warden needed to be out on a boat catching real poachers or better yet, protecting the "wildlife" in one of our many parks... Do you know all the animals that are getting hurt with Meth??


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Old 05/17/2010, 01:24 PM   #25
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I dont think it is a bad idea to check some of these sales in Florida. Expecially if it was a atlantic tang. I dont want anyone abusing our resources here. I dive and catch my own and follow the rules. I think he was checking to make sure it was not something bad and then just gave a warning when he saw it was nothing. I doubt it took a huge amount of resources, I am guessing much less than actually checking dive boats out in the water.


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