Reef Central Online Community

Go Back   Reef Central Online Community > General Interest Forums > The Reef Chemistry Forum
Blogs FAQ Calendar Mark Forums Read

Notices

User Tag List

Reply
Thread Tools
Unread 07/07/2010, 04:46 PM   #1
PelagicMagic
Registered Member
 
PelagicMagic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 1,671
Aluminum oxide based phosphate/silicate remover

does anyone use aluminum oxide based phosphate removers?


PelagicMagic is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 07/07/2010, 05:44 PM   #2
reef_doug
Premium Member
 
reef_doug's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Hesperia/Apple Valley
Posts: 3,814
Aluminum oxide maybe a little more effective with removing silicate, but the drawbacks of aluminum are a greater concern.

Aluminum and aluminum-based phosphate binders
http://www.advancedaquarist.com/issu...y2003/chem.htm


__________________
"If you have more than one tank in your livingroom, you might be a reefneck"

Current Tank Info: 180r SoCal Creations, 75g SCC1M Sump, WM EcoBAK, NextReef SMR1, TropicMarin Salt, ACIII, 3x250w HQI Phoenix 14k, 2x140w Super Actinics, ATi BM250, Eheim 1262, Tunze 2x6100+7095, Tunze Osmolator, 6 stage RODI w/ Spectrapure MaxCap
reef_doug is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 07/07/2010, 06:14 PM   #3
Stuart60611
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Chicago, IL
Posts: 2,979
Quote:
Originally Posted by reef_doug View Post
Aluminum oxide maybe a little more effective with removing silicate, but the drawbacks of aluminum are a greater concern.

Aluminum and aluminum-based phosphate binders
http://www.advancedaquarist.com/issu...y2003/chem.htm
Drawbacks aside, curious how effective it is at removing phosphate when compared to GFO?


Stuart60611 is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 07/07/2010, 06:16 PM   #4
PelagicMagic
Registered Member
 
PelagicMagic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 1,671
thanks, well then what is a safe media for phosphate removal?

I am not going to continue with aluminum oxide after this round. I have noticed reduction in algae after 5 days of use.

Many members in my club have told me they have issues with GFO.


PelagicMagic is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 07/07/2010, 10:17 PM   #5
bertoni
RC Mod
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Mountain View, CA, USA
Posts: 88,616
GFO and the aluminum media are the common choices. People have issues with both, but I think the GFO is safe enough if used carefully. I'd definitely start out with a small dose, though, if I went that way.

Another approach is lanthanum dosing, which cause phosphate to precipitate. The precipitate can be caught in a filter, although some people just let it settle to the bottom of the tank. It can lower phosphate very quickly and cause problems in that way. Other people have reported losing fish, but it's not clear what the causal mechanism would be for that.


__________________
Jonathan Bertoni
bertoni is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 07/08/2010, 05:55 AM   #6
wayne in norway
Registered Member
 
wayne in norway's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Stavanger, Norway
Posts: 1,271
I didn't think Al based P removers removed silicate? They do remove discolourant organics rather well, an as they are larger grained than GFO I think they work better in a bag, and that is where I keep mine in combination with some carbon. I don't have big issues with P and this small amount in combination with my other filtration does well for me.
GFO works well in a reactor and 'fixes' silicate problems too. My reactor is full of zeolites tho'.

I use the FM Al based remover and that seems ok. I did use the Seachem stuff some years ago and got bad results with softies.

I do not like Lanthanum chloride. I am afraid people will dose it heavy and it will mimic calcium and kaibosh calcification - I have seen one case where this was done. If you google Lanthanum calcification you will find reference to this being problem with dialysis - the La is very good at removing P, but risks interfering with human bone calcification.


wayne in norway is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 07/08/2010, 10:54 AM   #7
Boomer
Bomb Technician (EOD)
 
Boomer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Duluth, Minnesota
Posts: 11,842
I didn't think Al based P removers removed silicate?

Yes they do and very, very fast, .ie., 1- 2 ppm in 48 hrs or less. I'm actually the guy that discovered that, by accident, back in the 90's when I did some work for Thiel I had gotten a new HACH silica test kit and could not figured out why 2 tanks that had 95 % WC the next day one tank was at 2 ppm and the other at 0 ppm. So, it was what was different and the only thing was I had X Phosphate in one tank and not the other. So, I added some the next day to the other tank and poof 0 ppm silica. I then told Thiel who added a new product X-Silica, which ticked me off, as now people where using 2 x to much of it. When I told Dr. Leo Moren from SeaChem labs, he just added it to the PhosGuard label, the correct thing to do, with still the same dosage.


__________________
If you See Me Running You Better Catch-Up

Seawater Chemistry, Geology, ID Marine Life, Collecting Science Books, Explosives Technology, Audiophile



An explosion can be defined as a loud noise, accompanied by the sudden going away of things, from a place where they use to be.
Boomer is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 07/08/2010, 04:44 PM   #8
PelagicMagic
Registered Member
 
PelagicMagic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 1,671
Wayne how long have you been using the Aluminum oxide?

Boomer what are your thoughts on its use?


PelagicMagic is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 07/08/2010, 06:16 PM   #9
elijaher
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Kansas City,Missouri
Posts: 1,188
Which one remove silicate better Aluminum or GFO?


elijaher is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 07/08/2010, 08:27 PM   #10
outy
Moved On
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: auburn CA
Posts: 4,021
Quote:
Originally Posted by elijaher View Post
Which one remove silicate better Aluminum or GFO?
I use alum for silicate removal in a pinch if need be.

I use GFO on a daily basis


outy is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 07/09/2010, 01:13 PM   #11
Boomer
Bomb Technician (EOD)
 
Boomer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Duluth, Minnesota
Posts: 11,842
Aluminum oxide

I see no issue if you are not having problems, which is mostly with soft corals. However, GFO is more efficient.

Which one remove silicate better Aluminum or GFO?

Aluminum oxide IMHO


__________________
If you See Me Running You Better Catch-Up

Seawater Chemistry, Geology, ID Marine Life, Collecting Science Books, Explosives Technology, Audiophile



An explosion can be defined as a loud noise, accompanied by the sudden going away of things, from a place where they use to be.
Boomer is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Aluminum oxides vs Ferric Oxides for phosphate Crustman The Reef Chemistry Forum 6 05/21/2009 09:43 PM
Ferric Oxide or Aluminum Oxide hankclaussen The Reef Chemistry Forum 9 02/21/2009 02:24 AM
Phosphate/Silicate removal RBU1 The Reef Chemistry Forum 1 02/15/2009 08:23 AM
What Exactly is Wrong with Aluminum Based Phosphate Removers? HowardW The Reef Chemistry Forum 7 05/25/2006 06:55 AM
Low magnesium limits Iron Oxide Hydroxide's ability to remove phosphate? Nathan The Reef Chemistry Forum 3 03/31/2006 02:03 PM


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 01:46 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Powered by Searchlight © 2024 Axivo Inc.
Use of this web site is subject to the terms and conditions described in the user agreement.
Reef CentralTM Reef Central, LLC. Copyright ©1999-2022
User Alert System provided by Advanced User Tagging v3.3.0 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2024 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.