Would these LED Lights work?

[titancrusher1]

I want to make a 10 bulb fixture for my 125G reef Tank. It's a 72" long tank.

I want to put 5 or 6 1200k 10W Bulbs and either 4 or 5 10w 450NM LED bulbs.

I'm not sure if this is anywhere near enough light although i've seen videos of this setup on youtube.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iAK9jnw9khU

anyone know hwere I can buy 10w Actinic bulbs? Also, is it possible to wire them inline with each other?

here is an ebay link to the 12000k 10w bulbs i am thking about getting.

http://cgi.ebay.com/SMD-10W-Cool-Whi...ht_2369wt_1144

[TenKreefer]

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/sh....php?t=1883825

[titancrusher1]

Im not understanding the response... the 10W Actinics are a bad idea?

[der_wille_zur_macht]

If, by, "will these work?" you're asking "will these light up a fish tank and grow corals?" then the answer is more or less "yes."

However, there are several reasons why LEDs like the ones you have linked to are not popular or often used in DIY builds. Many of these reasons are linked to personal preferences and/or your own personal criteria, so it's hard to generalize, but if I can be free to answer your question, for most people it boils down to efficiency. The LEDs you have linked to have very poor efficiency compared to the LEDs commonly used in DIY builds. They may be attractive because of the low upfront cost, but this is a false economy - as soon as you've run the array for a few months/years, it will effectively have become more expensive than using the commonly-chosen LEDs, because it will require more electrical power to create a given amount of light.

Don't let us stop you from experimenting, but it's probably worth doing some research into the differences between those LEDs and the commonly used LEDs, to determine if those fit your criteria or if you'd be better off with a more common choice.

As far as wiring LEDs "inline" with each other - yes, it's very possible and more or less a given. Most of the commonly used drivers are capable of high power levels, such that most people end up with many LEDs wired together on a single driver. Looking at the various build threads in this forum will give you an idea of typical setups, but again, it's important to understand the differences between those LEDs and commonly used LEDs. Most of the LEDs people are using today will drop around 3 - 4v each, and operate at or just under 1A current. The LED you have linked drop 10 - 12v each, so you'll have to take that into consideration when choosing a driver.

[titancrusher1]

Thanks for the answer! I'm having a hard time finding proper LED's. What LED's would you recommend? It seems to me I would need Royal Blues for actinic but not sure about the what LED's to use for the 10k lighting since most LED's seem to only be 6500k.

[der_wille_zur_macht]

Check page 200 of the big "DIY LEDs: The writeup" thread. There is a summary there that answers most common questions.

Most people are using Cree XR-E, XP-E, or XP-G LEDs. Doesn't mean you can't use other LEDs, but that's what the tried-and-true builds have used. Most people blend royal blue LEDs with whites. The royals give us the actinic effect we're used to, even though they're a hair high in spectrum (450nm vs 420). There are a whole range of various white LEDs. A typical cool white LED will usually be somewhere around 6500k. Neutral and warm whites are typically lower than that. Don't let this scare you off - the whole concept of measuring white light via kelvin degrees is pretty flawed. Plus, back in the "dark ages" 6500k was common for MH and fourescent lamps anyways. When you blend in the royal blues, it definitely evens things out to the point that you can get a "typical" reef look.

That said, there's lots of room for personal freedom. The de-facto standard LED build has used royal blues mixed with cool whites, but some people are finding that lacks spectrum, and are mixing in neutral or warm whites to balance things out. Other people are mixing in plain blues or cyans to balance things to their preference. My only advice would be to invest in lots of research, and buy a few of each LED you're considering to make a small test rig and be sure you like the color before you spend a lot of money to build a large rig.

[Tbduval]

I have been researching the LED scene alot lately. The most commonly used LED are Cree's. The sell different colors and bins. With my build I am using Cree XR-e's Royal Blue and XP-G CW at a 2:1 ratio. As always I am late with my response.......

[titancrusher1]

Does Cree even make 10W LED's cool white? I found some 10W Royal blues i might purchase if i can make a 10W 10 bulb fixture.

[der_wille_zur_macht]

Not as such. But, naming LEDs by wattage is misleading and inaccurate. LEDs can operate over a very wide range of wattages. For instance, the popular Cree XP-G can be run from zero to 5 watts.

Plus, referring to an LED by it's wattage tells you ZERO about it's performance. What we really need to know is how much light it's producing per watt consumed. Not all LEDs are created equal - it's common to see differences in the hundreds of percent range for efficiency from one LED to another.

Basically, there's no inherent advantage to running a single LED at a certain power level. In other words, a single 20w LED is not inherently better than running ten 2w LEDs. In most cases, it's actually easier to get better performance from lower-wattage operation.

[titancrusher1]

Ok. What should I be looking for if I want to just buy 10 LEDs for now? I'm trying to do a smaller "pet" project. if I can get it right and light up my tank properly with 10 bulbs i'm going to be making the bigger LED structure in the future. I'm assuming I should be looking for a specific PAR range? What about Lumens?

Im looking into 10 bulbs. 5 of them 420nm and 5 of them cool white in the higher 10 watt range. I'm assuming overall that higher advertised wattage would be an overall brighter light?

[der_wille_zur_macht]

Maybe I'm being stubborn but I don't understand why you're attached to the idea of 10w LEDs. While there's nothing inherently wrong with them, they're not nearly as efficient as the more commonly used LEDs, which are typically operated at around 2 - 3w each. In other words, the fact that they are 10w LEDs doesn't inherently make them "better" (or even brighter) than any other LED. Comparing LEDs based on wattage is COMPLETELY meaningless unless you qualify it with some reference to efficiency or absolute output, and spectrum. Building a small test rig is great for practice, but it won't be very effective practice unless you use the same LEDs (or, at least, very similar LEDs) as you're planning on using in a full-scale build.

What I would suggest - and some will bash me for being a high-end purist here - would be to order 4 or 5 cool white XP-Gs, 6 or 7 royal blue XR-E or XP-Es, and maybe one or two other LEDs of your choice. Get a Meanwell ELN60-48 driver, and have at it.

If you REALLY want to build a 10-LED fixture using generic 10w LEDs, then please by all means have at it, but understand you're venturing into somewhat uncharted territory. As far as what to look for, in terms of efficiency, then lumens/watt is the standard for white LEDs - but it's important to understand that it really only applies when comparing LEDs of a similar spectrum. For LEDs in the deep, royal blue end of the spectrum, then radiant flux (mW/W) is more common, since it's a more accurate measure of low-wavelength monochromatic light.

Keep in mind that you'll also have to come up with a way to power the LEDs. You'll have to look at the target drive current and voltage drop of the LEDs, and compare it to the driver(s) you intend on using.

[titancrusher1]

Im not looking at it from an efficient standpoint. i'll only be using about 30% less electricity than my PC bulbs. I'm more or less looking to build a Thinner LED structure with a neat design versus a bulky 1.5 square foot design taht would have to hang. I just got back from a Electronic Supply store and have figured out the following:

I will be purchasing the 10 10w bulbs with a 12v 15amp power supply to fully utilize their potential output. Check out youtube and search for 10w LED. There are some videos showing how bright and even one with a fish tank that has corals in it with 2 10w cool whites and 1 10wActinic. I will be putting a Dimmer inline with it as well and in the future figuring out how to install an auto timer/dimmer setup to coincide with sunset/sunrise (hopefully :P)

The only thing I haven't figured out is the potential Par rating but that is where the gamble will be. I'm hoping these LED's will have a high par especially since their 12000k and every other LED seems to ahve a fair amount of PAR.

Just curious....what role does a Driver play and how do I install it? sounds like it regulates the current so it comes out smooth.

final note... Not being rude or anything but a 10W LED is MUCH brighter than a 1W/3W from what i've researched and read. I'll be the guinea pig and hope I'm right lol.

[TenKreefer]

Efficacy aside. A PAR reading from a single 10W LED would really illuminate (eh get it?) us on the situation. If you're concerns are only in growing corals and not on efficiency then that $7 10W LED looks pretty good. Before my current rig I had 1x10W Statistronics RB LED and 18x1W rebels and my SPS were growing just fine. It wasn't ANYWHERE near as efficient as a CREE fixture, but my corals were growing and the color was pleasing.

[der_wille_zur_macht]

I'm hoping these LED's will have a high par especially since their 12000k and every other LED seems to ahve a fair amount of PAR.

That's kind of my point. You don't have to experiment to determine this, you can look it up in datasheets. They WILL NOT have the same output, per watt consumed, as a build with more efficient LEDs. That doesn't mean they won't work, it just means they won't provide as much light per watt. And if your motivation for using 10w LEDs is to pack a lot of power into a small package, consider that there are other alternatives - for instance, the Cree XP-G and XP-E and the Luxeon Rebel are small enough that you can mount several of them onto a standard-sized star MCPCB. Going that route, you get the high physical density you're seeking, AND the efficiency of high-quality LEDs. I've done a few builds where I had 12 such LEDs packed onto a heatsink with a 2" x 2" surface area - that's a pretty high power density; should be more than enough for any "sleek" fixture you're trying to design.

Just curious....what role does a Driver play and how do I install it? sounds like it regulates the current so it comes out smooth.

LEDs do not have a nice reliable VI relationship - they essentially act like a dead short when connected to a power supply. The driver does not smooth current, it regulates it - that is, it essentially controls the current to make sure it doesn't get too high.

Check out youtube and search for 10w LED. There are some videos showing how bright

final note... Not being rude or anything but a 10W LED is MUCH brighter than a 1W/3W from what i've researched and read. I'll be the guinea pig and hope I'm right lol.

Hey, you came in here and asked a question, I'm just doing my best to answer it - if you've already made up you mind then I'll stop trying to help you. Enjoy your experiment and let us know how it turns out. Just keep in mind that a youtube video is a horrendously inaccurate method for judging the intensity of lighting. Human eyes are horrendous all on their own; a web video is just going to make things less meaningful.

[titancrusher1]

The good news is i've got the structure i'm mounting whatever LED's i get...how the heck do you cut plexiglass....

So do you think it'd be better to mount 3 Cree 3W Cool Whites (and 3 Cree Royal Blues to one or perhaps more than that if I wanted to create 5 White LED points and 4 Actinic LED points.

Can you show me some pictures of what you're talking about so I can get an idea of how the mounting of the LED's to the starboard works? I'm assuming I have to mount them myself?

[titancrusher1]

Where can I find Drivers and how may do i need if I went with the 10 10w setup?

[imagex]

the drivers you can use are the meanwells or a diy driver or buckpucks on a eln-60-48d meanwell you can drive 4 i believe on a single meanwell.. or run 4x3 series parallel string.. I too was going to do this... the whites however i'm not using the satistronics whites i'm using the bridgelux 402's... they're cheaper and more efficient... plus you can run more on a single meanwell... but honestly by the questions your asking you seem very unskilled in putting a led array together... the amount of leds you put per string is the amount of voltage your driver can supply and divide that by the forward voltage of the led and you'll have the amount of leds per string.. but honestly you need to read more...

[der_wille_zur_macht]

Originally Posted by titancrusher1

The good news is i've got the structure i'm mounting whatever LED's i get...how the heck do you cut plexiglass....

Plexiglass is a trademarked name for acrylic sheet. It's typically cut with a fine-toothed tablesaw and/or router for reefkeeping applications. If you are planning on mounting your LEDs in an acrylic enclosure, please keep in mind you'll need to provide for good thermal management - i.e. a way for hot air to get away from the heatsinks the LEDs are mounted to.

So do you think it'd be better to mount 3 Cree 3W Cool Whites (and 3 Cree Royal Blues to one or perhaps more than that if I wanted to create 5 White LED points and 4 Actinic LED points.

It honestly depends on your own criteria. If, by "better" you mean "more efficient" then yes, a few typical Cree LEDs (please stop calling them "3W" LEDs, it's not really an appropriate name) will be "better." If you're trying to get lots of light from a very small package, you can easily do that by mounting XP-G, XP-E, or Rebel LEDs close together - this gives you efficiency and a small package, as opposed to the so-called 10W LEDs you're linking, which only really have the benefit of being a small physical size for that power level.

Can you show me some pictures of what you're talking about so I can get an idea of how the mounting of the LED's to the starboard works? I'm assuming I have to mount them myself?

Look through build threads and you'll get plenty of pictures. Typically, LEDs are purchased already mounted to star boards, as follows:



However, you can typically get them mounted "3-up" which means three LEDs on the same 20mm star:

Originally Posted by titancrusher1

Where can I find Drivers and how may do i need if I went with the 10 10w setup?

Drivers are usually purchased from one of the typical LED vendors: ledsupply, rapidled, cutter, etg, and so on. How many you need depends on which driver you get - you need to look at the voltage and current specs of the drivers you're interested in and match them to the properties of the LEDs.

[titancrusher1]

Boy have i learned a ton these past few weeks. I've built my LED light fixture....keep an eye out for a full write up on it! Overall looks good, I just can't find a Par Meter anywhere!