Reef Central Online Community

Home Forum Here you can view your subscribed threads, work with private messages and edit your profile and preferences View New Posts View Today's Posts

Find other members Frequently Asked Questions Search Reefkeeping ...an online magazine for marine aquarists Support our sponsors and mention Reef Central

Go Back   Reef Central Online Community > Marine Fish Forums > Anemones & Clownfish
Register Blogs FAQ Calendar Mark Forums Read

Notices

Reply
Thread Tools
Old 12/06/2010, 06:00 AM   #1
beuchat
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Madrid, Spain
Posts: 254
Pedal laceration in Gigantea

HI, just to show two pics of pedal laceration in stichodactyla gigantea.






Any experiences?

Regards


beuchat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12/06/2010, 11:54 AM   #2
velvetelvis
Registered Member
 
velvetelvis's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Wake Forest, NC
Posts: 1,740
None here, but please consider keeping this thread updated with progress pictures and notes. This is really interesting.


__________________
The sea is as near as we come to another world.
--Anne Stevenson

Current Tank Info: 50G Palau reef w/Biota "bonsai" coral beauty; 50G FW Papua New Guinea biotope w/praecox rainbowfish
velvetelvis is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12/06/2010, 01:07 PM   #3
SkullV
They Got My Number
 
SkullV's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Gilbert, AZ
Posts: 6,973
I can't tell from the photos but do the small pieces have their own mouths?


SkullV is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12/06/2010, 02:02 PM   #4
BonsaiNut
Premium Member
 
BonsaiNut's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Orange County, CA
Posts: 4,565
Please keep this thread updated! I would like to see how/if these change over time!


__________________
"You are a very fine person, Mr. Baggins, and I am very fond of you; but you are only quite a little fellow in a wide world after all!"
- The Hobbit; J. R. R. Tolkien
BonsaiNut is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12/06/2010, 03:29 PM   #5
Nebthet
Registered Member
 
Nebthet's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Belleville, Ontario, CAN.
Posts: 439
Quote:
Originally Posted by SkullV View Post
I can't tell from the photos but do the small pieces have their own mouths?
That is what I was wondering. It looks like this nem is producing clones via the pedal lacerations.

Was this done on purpose or did the nem do it on its' own?
Please keep us updated.


Nebthet is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12/06/2010, 05:14 PM   #6
velvetelvis
Registered Member
 
velvetelvis's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Wake Forest, NC
Posts: 1,740
I think I read in one of Sprung's books that S. gigantea does reproduce via pedal laceration. I'll check when I get home.


__________________
The sea is as near as we come to another world.
--Anne Stevenson

Current Tank Info: 50G Palau reef w/Biota "bonsai" coral beauty; 50G FW Papua New Guinea biotope w/praecox rainbowfish
velvetelvis is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12/06/2010, 05:22 PM   #7
beuchat
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Madrid, Spain
Posts: 254
The "baby" clones do not have mouths already. I think they will develop in the future, but don´t know how long does it takes.I placed the anemone in the tank a week ago. It came with that condition from the LFS.

I will keep this post updated when new info is available.

Regards.


beuchat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12/06/2010, 05:23 PM   #8
SkullV
They Got My Number
 
SkullV's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Gilbert, AZ
Posts: 6,973
Quote:
Originally Posted by beuchat View Post
The "baby" clones do not have mouths already. I think they will develop in the future, but don´t know how long does it takes.I placed the anemone in the tank a week ago. It came with that condition from the LFS.

I will keep this post updated when new info is available.

Regards.
Very interesting. I have always understood that a mouth will not simply grow out of nowhere and that part of the mouth has to be included in the "clone" in order for it to fully develop into it's own anemone. I would be very interested to keep up with this thread if you keep posting info!


SkullV is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12/06/2010, 06:01 PM   #9
Randy Holmes-Farley
Reef Chemist
 
Randy Holmes-Farley's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: Arlington, Massachusetts
Posts: 86,408
It would be interesting to see what happens to a piece of food placed onto one of those sections.


__________________
Randy Holmes-Farley

Current Tank Info: 120 mixed reef
Randy Holmes-Farley is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12/06/2010, 10:29 PM   #10
beuchat
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Madrid, Spain
Posts: 254
I have not fed tha anemone yet. I will try tomorrow and report.


beuchat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12/07/2010, 12:16 PM   #11
bues0022
Registered Member
 
bues0022's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Delano, MN
Posts: 2,225
Quote:
Originally Posted by Randy Holmes-Farley View Post
It would be interesting to see what happens to a piece of food placed onto one of those sections.
agreed!


bues0022 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12/07/2010, 12:24 PM   #12
Toddrtrex
Registered Member
 
Toddrtrex's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Carol Stream, IL
Posts: 23,178
Is this the same anemone in this thread?


__________________
Click my name and then "visit toddrtrex's homepage" for tank pictures

Current Tank Info: 210g reef and 65g reef
Toddrtrex is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12/07/2010, 02:45 PM   #13
beuchat
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Madrid, Spain
Posts: 254
Yes it is, That is the reason I am not feeding it. I have instaled a dedicated koralia facing the anemone. The mouth is closed and it does not show necrosis so I think it will recover (I hope!!!)

Trying to separate the polymnus away from it.


beuchat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12/08/2010, 11:37 AM   #14
SkullV
They Got My Number
 
SkullV's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Gilbert, AZ
Posts: 6,973
Any update on trying to feed the "clones"?


SkullV is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12/08/2010, 02:59 PM   #15
beuchat
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Madrid, Spain
Posts: 254
No way,

The anemone is deflated again. I am thinking maybe it is starting a bacterial infection. Julian Sprung´s book (Coral Reef Vol. II) recommends to look the oral disc and column for sloughing necrosis tissue. If there is none present, then provide strong water flow and observe the animal to see if the condition persists or worsens. If there is necrosis, the anemone must be treated in a hospital tank with antibiotics.

I have prepared the hospital tank just in case, and already got cloramfenicol for this purpose.

Plastic container with heater and a mesh to avoid the anemone to attacht. I will put a koralia inside in case.



The antibiotic+temp controller:





I can not see dead,rotten or torn tissue so I will wait one day more to decide to remove or not. I have recovered previously two heteractis magníficas using this antibiotic and also enrofloxacine, but also lost another two anemones because I could not complete the treatment.

Also read in the book that the clownfishes seem to stimulate the flaccid anemone back to health, in fact I show one of them "diving" into the mouth and some little brown pieces of rest of digested food comming out (like "washing" its stomach)







Any ideas?

Thanks.


beuchat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12/08/2010, 04:04 PM   #16
garygb
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: los angeles
Posts: 4,424
Curious about how you dose the antibiotics and for what time period?


garygb is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12/08/2010, 04:11 PM   #17
bues0022
Registered Member
 
bues0022's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Delano, MN
Posts: 2,225
I am by no means an expert on rehabilitation sick anemones of this kind, but it was my understanding that a clownfish in an otherwise unhealthy anemone could stress it further. You are proposing the opposite. How did you come to said conclusion?


bues0022 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12/08/2010, 04:33 PM   #18
beuchat
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Madrid, Spain
Posts: 254
Quote:
Originally Posted by bues0022 View Post
I am by no means an expert on rehabilitation sick anemones of this kind, but it was my understanding that a clownfish in an otherwise unhealthy anemone could stress it further. You are proposing the opposite. How did you come to said conclusion?
It is descrived in the book "The reef Aquarium vol II" by Julian Sprung and Charles Delbeeck, page 401. Note that they recommend A. percula and A. ocelaris for the gigantea. In my case it is hosting a. polymnus

Also, in page 364 you can read:

"Anemones normally deflate on a rhythmic cycle of expansion and contraction, and this may send the aquarist into throws of alarm. Log term contraction is often but not always a sign of a problem, such as infection or predation by a bristle worm or fish. In Entacmaea quadricolor the process of asexual reproduction via longitudinal fission in preceded by several days of deflation followed by tearing of the oarl disc through the mouth and the column. Is is easy to appreciate why such an appearance could lead the aquarist to assume the anemone is dying!"

So, about my Gigantea I think different possibilities:

1- It is just changing its water inside (no worries)
2- It has contracted a bacterial infection (should be removed to hospital tank).
3- It is in a kind of process to "release" the "baby clones".

I hope the first option is the one!


beuchat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12/09/2010, 09:14 AM   #19
beuchat
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Madrid, Spain
Posts: 254
When I woke up this morning it was inflated, now its lunch time and deflated again. It behaves the same as magnificas when they are aclimating: they deflates when light is present and inflated at night.

Maybe is it suffering of free oxigen radicals produced by its zooxantelae photosynthesis?

Any ideas?


beuchat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12/09/2010, 11:21 AM   #20
bradleym
Registered Member
 
bradleym's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Shrewsbury/St. Louis, Mo
Posts: 3,676
You've only had the anemone a week. Just a thought, but could it be light acclimation? I had a baby haddoni that was ok for almost a week then started roaming and changing shape, deflating and inflating. It finally died after about 2 weeks.

I just got a bleached haddoni for a second attempt in the same tank. I used a screen to "dim" the lights but after three days it was acting the same as yours. So I added 2 more layers on the screening and he perked up after a few hours.


__________________
lol xoxo ttfn kthanx bye ttyl :D

These opinions are only opinions, and should not be treated as expert testimony. Any similarity to fact or scientific research is only a coincidence. Especially if stated as fact.

Current Tank Info: I have a 210g long that is a mixed reef for as long as I can hold back my anemone addiction!
bradleym is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12/09/2010, 11:50 AM   #21
Toddrtrex
Registered Member
 
Toddrtrex's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Carol Stream, IL
Posts: 23,178
Great point "bradleym" --- I should have caught that, since I seem to tell people to do that all the time.


__________________
Click my name and then "visit toddrtrex's homepage" for tank pictures

Current Tank Info: 210g reef and 65g reef
Toddrtrex is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12/09/2010, 11:51 AM   #22
Randy Holmes-Farley
Reef Chemist
 
Randy Holmes-Farley's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: Arlington, Massachusetts
Posts: 86,408
It seems to me that this is the normal cycle that many (actually, nearly all) shipped giganteas and often haddonis take: expansion and contraction ending in eventual death, regardless of what one does.

Probably bacterial infection, but it isn't known exactly what is happening.


__________________
Randy Holmes-Farley

Current Tank Info: 120 mixed reef
Randy Holmes-Farley is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12/09/2010, 12:07 PM   #23
beuchat
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Madrid, Spain
Posts: 254
Just returned from the office. He is still deflated, no signs of necrosis, mouth open but no everted stomach.

I have switched the leds to "moon light" and let´s see the reactions.

If he does not recover in 24-hours I might remove him and use the antibiotics.


beuchat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12/10/2010, 05:53 AM   #24
beuchat
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Madrid, Spain
Posts: 254
I woke up at night (5:00 AM) and checked. It was deflated and dettatched. No necrosis.

I removed and placed it in a QT container with 50 mg/litre of cloramfenicol, with no light.





Looks bad, but maybe can be saved since no necrosis is present

I will decrease the temp to 24º C and cross fingers.


beuchat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12/10/2010, 09:50 AM   #25
beuchat
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Madrid, Spain
Posts: 254
Updated.

Is this necrosis or just rests of ingested food and mesenterial filaments?








beuchat is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
magnifica + pedal laceration in captivity suta4242 Anemones & Clownfish 12 01/21/2010 04:44 PM
Fish that are safe (relatively) with a Gigantea mn jeff Anemones & Clownfish 13 12/07/2009 08:46 PM
mushroom flower pedals SAZAMA Corallimorpharians 5 08/08/2009 11:36 PM
Lacerated Mantel ... help Foster Tridacnid Clams and other Mollusks 3 09/01/2007 05:59 PM
Longitudinal Fission, Pedal Laceration.... DetectiveTofu Greater San Francisco Bay Area Reef Forum 5 08/05/2007 09:18 PM


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 11:33 PM.


TapaTalk Enabled

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Powered by Searchlight © 2017 Axivo Inc.
Use of this web site is subject to the terms and conditions described in the user agreement.
Reef CentralTM Reef Central, LLC. Copyright ©1999-2014