Algae Scrubber Basics

[TheFishMan65]

Keep an eye on those easy off hooks. Some (all ?) of those use the same compounds as the bio pellets. So they may dissolve slowly over time.

Questions:
1) Why not just have a box about three inches wide. Lighted on both sides. Then have the water come in on one side (maybe with a baffle do direct it down). Then have an overflow pipe on the other side. This could then be lightly covered so the salt creep remains inside the box (hopefully).
2) Is there a spec on liters of air per inch of screen?

[Floyd R Turbo]

you mean like this









2 weeks growth

[Floyd R Turbo]

Vid

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4QeUfvXqJOw

[TheFishMan65]

Yes, seems like using most existing setup will put the light to far from the screen, at least if you try and do 2 sided.

[redneckgearhead]

Is size the only advantage to this type?

[Dustin1300]

Bud, what LEDs are lighting that scrubber?

[jacob.morgan78]

First, I've never had an algae scrubber of any type and have a one year old "typical" reef tank. I plan to keep my skimmer running at first but want to have it on a timer to only run during a certain time of day. I would eventually phase it out hopefully. I also have the typical reactors: GFO, GAC. I would phase out GFO but keep running carbon more than likely. I currently have a stand alone 10 gallon refugium with some LR, chaeto, and gracilaria... no sand. It's fed with a small MJ style pump and drains to my sump into the return section, skipping the skimmer. The UAS would go into the stand alone refugium. At first, what time a day do you think would be best to schedule my skimmer to be on? and for how long?

Now to my plan for the UAS. I'm trying to decide between two ideas. First, I could just use the airstone and tie the screen to it. I'd rather do the second idea I think.

My second idea would be to feed my refugium with a MJ1200 with the venturi hose attached. The water/air output of the MJ would go through vinyl tubing to the bottom of my refugium. I would attach a small diameter (undecided on size) pvc to the vinyl tube. I would cut a slot in the pvc for the water/air to be pushed out of. I would attach the screen to the pvc (undecided on how) for the water/air to move up the screen. I'm also undecided on screen size and bulb wattage. The screen would be lit from behind the refugium and be one sided for now.

My main concern here is bubbles and salt creep. I plan to insert a thin, flexible piece of acrylic into my sump to act as a baffle before my drain. It would fit snuggly into the tank against each side and rise above the water line but not above the height of the tank. I'm also going to get a piece of glass cut to fit perfectly on top of my refugium above the section before the baffle (the only part that should have bubbles in it). This glass top should keep most (I hope) of the salt creep from getting out of the tank.

I would keep the rock in there along with the other macro algaes. I would expect the UAS to out-compete them for the nutrients and things would kind of take of themselves.

A couple of things. I have a one year old and my wife is less than thrilled with me spending a bunch of time with my tank (which I'm fine with because I'd rather spend time with the family anyway). What I'm getting at is don't expect this to move along very fast. I do what I can, when I can. And, I'm battling an issue with my Apex at the moment which demands my free time. Second thing, feel free to rip my ideas a new one!!! :-) I'm okay with constructive criticism and welcome it seeing how I'm new to algae scrubbers and not an expert (yet) on reef tanks :-)

Thanks for taking a look!!!

[Floyd R Turbo]

I've got 6 660nm Epistars and 1 455nm Epiled on each side, from SatisLED (china)

[srusso]

Originally Posted by jacob.morgan78

First, I've never had an algae scrubber of any type and have a one year old "typical" reef tank. I plan to keep my skimmer running at first but want to have it on a timer to only run during a certain time of day. I would eventually phase it out hopefully. I also have the typical reactors: GFO, GAC. I would phase out GFO but keep running carbon more than likely. I currently have a stand alone 10 gallon refugium with some LR, chaeto, and gracilaria... no sand. It's fed with a small MJ style pump and drains to my sump into the return section, skipping the skimmer. The UAS would go into the stand alone refugium. At first, what time a day do you think would be best to schedule my skimmer to be on? and for how long?

Now to my plan for the UAS. I'm trying to decide between two ideas. First, I could just use the airstone and tie the screen to it. I'd rather do the second idea I think.

My second idea would be to feed my refugium with a MJ1200 with the venturi hose attached. The water/air output of the MJ would go through vinyl tubing to the bottom of my refugium. I would attach a small diameter (undecided on size) pvc to the vinyl tube. I would cut a slot in the pvc for the water/air to be pushed out of. I would attach the screen to the pvc (undecided on how) for the water/air to move up the screen. I'm also undecided on screen size and bulb wattage. The screen would be lit from behind the refugium and be one sided for now.

My main concern here is bubbles and salt creep. I plan to insert a thin, flexible piece of acrylic into my sump to act as a baffle before my drain. It would fit snuggly into the tank against each side and rise above the water line but not above the height of the tank. I'm also going to get a piece of glass cut to fit perfectly on top of my refugium above the section before the baffle (the only part that should have bubbles in it). This glass top should keep most (I hope) of the salt creep from getting out of the tank.

I would keep the rock in there along with the other macro algaes. I would expect the UAS to out-compete them for the nutrients and things would kind of take of themselves.

A couple of things. I have a one year old and my wife is less than thrilled with me spending a bunch of time with my tank (which I'm fine with because I'd rather spend time with the family anyway). What I'm getting at is don't expect this to move along very fast. I do what I can, when I can. And, I'm battling an issue with my Apex at the moment which demands my free time. Second thing, feel free to rip my ideas a new one!!! :-) I'm okay with constructive criticism and welcome it seeing how I'm new to algae scrubbers and not an expert (yet) on reef tanks :-)

Thanks for taking a look!!!

FIRST! Welcome to the Scrubber Club!

I should say, to setup an algae scrubber you do not have to remove your skimmer, as you know... As for having a skimmer turn on and off, I know your at least safe to do it. Others here have posted no difference when doing the same thing. However I have never used a skimmer so I cant directly vouch for it . You could go back and search for those posts or maybe someone can speak to that. That seems like your main goal, sorry I cant help any further...

Before we start talking about removing equipment, etc. What type of tank are we talking about here? Do you have any algae issues currently? What are your N and P readings? Time is on your side then, we still need to test the new UAS design anyway...

[jacob.morgan78]

Originally Posted by srusso

FIRST! Welcome to the Scrubber Club!

I should say, to setup an algae scrubber you do not have to remove your skimmer, as you know... As for having a skimmer turn on and off, I know your at least safe to do it. Others here have posted no difference when doing the same thing. However I have never used a skimmer so I cant directly vouch for it . You could go back and search for those posts or maybe someone can speak to that. That seems like your main goal, sorry I cant help any further...

Before we start talking about removing equipment, etc. What type of tank are we talking about here? Do you have any algae issues currently? What are your N and P readings? Time is on your side then, we still need to test the new UAS design anyway...

I have a 125 mixed reef, about a year old. I use red sea pro test kits and I'm getting 0 for nitrates and .08 for phosphates. No real algae issues in the display except for the bubble algae that pops up here and there. In my fuge, I have an algae that's growing well and that I'm able to export fairly frequently. It's much finer that chaeto and seems to bunch up at the surface and get air bubbles formng within its tangles. It's a light green color. I have no idea what it is and I haven't been able to get a positive I'd on it. Below is an old picture. It's gets denser now and bunches up at the surface. I've let it be and grow now for over a couple months with no issues or spreading so... We'll see... I can't help but be curious about its ability to grow well on the UAS screen!




I like the idea of changing over to keep more of the living, good stuff, in circulation without the skimmer running. I was going to start an ATS a while back but decided to wait until the new design came out... And wouldnt mind helping the design come along I guess. I definitely won't take anything off abruptly. The main thing I'm looking for guidance on with the skimmer is, for ph reasons, when would be the best time to turn it off seeing how there would not be the additional gassing off of co2. I know the UAS would be bubbling too but didn't know the correlation. I was thinking about turning it off at night just due to more pods out and about during that time...

Anyways, wrote way too much... Thanks for taking a look!!!

[TheFishMan65]

A question on the UAS design. It seemed like the first design had the benefit of no water on the separator between the screen and the lights. Seems like the UAS desgin will have an issue with algae growing on the sides of the box?

[srusso]

Originally Posted by TheFishMan65

A question on the UAS design. It seemed like the first design had the benefit of no water on the separator between the screen and the lights. Seems like the UAS desgin will have an issue with algae growing on the sides of the box?

Possibly, Floyd's started that way. It remains to be seen if in remote box units once the break in period happens if it grows cleanly or not. That will be answered within the next few weeks, or at least have some clearer answers.

[srusso]

Originally Posted by jacob.morgan78

I have a 125 mixed reef, about a year old. I use red sea pro test kits and I'm getting 0 for nitrates and .08 for phosphates. No real algae issues in the display except for the bubble algae that pops up here and there. In my fuge, I have an algae that's growing well and that I'm able to export fairly frequently. It's much finer that chaeto and seems to bunch up at the surface and get air bubbles formng within its tangles. It's a light green color. I have no idea what it is and I haven't been able to get a positive I'd on it. Below is an old picture. It's gets denser now and bunches up at the surface. I've let it be and grow now for over a couple months with no issues or spreading so... We'll see... I can't help but be curious about its ability to grow well on the UAS screen!




I like the idea of changing over to keep more of the living, good stuff, in circulation without the skimmer running. I was going to start an ATS a while back but decided to wait until the new design came out... And wouldnt mind helping the design come along I guess. I definitely won't take anything off abruptly. The main thing I'm looking for guidance on with the skimmer is, for ph reasons, when would be the best time to turn it off seeing how there would not be the additional gassing off of co2. I know the UAS would be bubbling too but didn't know the correlation. I was thinking about turning it off at night just due to more pods out and about during that time...

Anyways, wrote way too much... Thanks for taking a look!!!

Looks like a type green hair algae to me. With permitters starting that low it may take up to 4 weeks for your screen to mature, just an FYI.

We always like photos around here, some full sump and tank shots would be great... :-)

[Floyd R Turbo]

I have a lot of pics on my photobucket album for my UAS. Rather than posting all the pics here just go there, they are dated so you can see the progression

http://s611.photobucket.com/albums/t...est/?start=all

I took this pic on Wednesday night, this is 2 days after cleaning.



I didn't clean any of the green off on Monday, I just cleaned out the box and gently rinsed the screen to get the slime off. What I am interested it is if it continues to grow a layer of the stringy brown slime (looks kind of like dinos) if the screen is growing thick and green.

I had a fair amount of algae growth in the box as well, on the acrylic and the bulkhead/drain.

As far as the benefit of no water to penetrate, that's true, but I think with LEDs the light is driven better and for me there's still not much to penetrate. The bubble and water probably diffuse the light a little, but that probably helps blend the light as much as it hinders intensity so that actually may be a good thing.

Oops I forgot the photobucket link

http://s611.photobucket.com/albums/t...est/?start=all

[jacob.morgan78]

That stuff grows pretty quick so I think the N n P are low because that stuff is using it up possibly. Thanks for taking a look.

[Thras]

Ok guys I'm going to attempt my first ats on a 75g tank with a 20 gal sump I have about 21 inches wide total for the ats and didn't really want to go over the tank with it incase of spray that would leave me with about 13 inches high but I need to do a single sided one from what I can tell I would need 18x18 screen the only way I could do this is to drop the screen all the way to the bottom of the tank and go up but wasn't wanting to go that high because it almost hits my drawer for the stand is there another way?

[Dustin1300]

Thought I'd share with the others that use CFLs in ATS or house...Here's a great deal on them:

http://www.bensoutlet.com/products/3...al-light-bulbs

[srusso]

Thras, this is the current sizing info

Originally Posted by Floyd R Turbo

Planning your Algae Scrubber

There are 2 basic ways of supplying flow to an Algae Scrubber: directly from the overflow, or from a dedicated pump.



The above diagram does not illustrate the top-of-tank Algae Scrubber, which would apply to someone running a sumpless system, however this is just a modification of the pump-driven Algae Scrubber with the pump in the display tank.

The very first step you need to do before buying, measuring, or sketching up anything, is to decide how you are going to supply your Algae Scrubber, and determine what your available flow rate is.

Available Flow

In any case, you need to measure the flow rate. Do this step. It is critical. Do not, I repeat, do not calculate the flow rate based on pump curves and head-feet of pressure. This may sound like a total pain in the behind, but just trust me on this one. Would you rather go through all the effort of building an Algae Scrubber, only to have problems and find out that you didn't have as much flow as you thought you did? Believe me, I've been there.

If you've been reading this thread, you will see that at some point I started making a big deal about this. The reason is that it is a big deal and I think many people don't realize that their pump does not pump at the rated flow, and in the majority of cases, it doesn't come close to the flow calculated by using a standard head-foot calculator program or table. So I have chosen to make it the #1 priority for an Algae Scrubber design, hands down. You have to know your actual flow.

For a drain fed Algae Scrubber, fill a pitcher with the water entering the sump. You will probably need to rig up a temporary pipe or routing configuration so that you can fill the container. For a pump-fed Algae Scrubber, set up the pump in a sink filled with water to the same level as your pump will be submerged, and connect the tubing required to reach the height of the connection to the horizontal slot tube, so that you mimic as best as possible the actual conditions. Backpressure created by the slot/screen is negligible unless your flow rate significantly exceeds 35 GPH per inch of slot length.

Now that you've done all this, fill the container and record the time it takes to fill it. Do this at least a dozen times. The way I do this is by using a recording device, like a digital voice recorder, and just calling out "Go" and "Stop", then afterward, playing it back and using a stopwatch to get the time intervals. You could also have someone else run the stopwatch and write down the times. Average out the times and then figure out how many gallons per hour of flow you are actually getting. If you have multiple drains, measure and extrapolate GPH for each individually, and then add together.

For instance, if you are using a 1/2 gallon pitcher, and it takes 4.5 seconds to fill it, then you would have (0.5 gallons / 4.5 seconds) x (3600 seconds / 1 hour) which would be 400 GPH.

Don't be surprised if you have a lot less flow from your pump than you thought you had. I had less than 1/2 of what I thought it was. Head-feet calculations are usually way off, because most people don't use big enough return hose or have other restrictions in the plumbing. Some of it is inherent to reef-ready aquarium design (1" drain, 3/4" return, Danner Mag-Drive 9.5 and larger pumps need 1.5" return, see a problem?). So don't feel bad. A lot of people are in your situation, but they just don't know it.

Start with a clean pump. If your pump is not clean, soak it in vinegar for 15 minutes and scrub it good. After running an Algae Scrubber for about 4-5 months, your pump flow will drop about 15%, and by 6 months, it will have dropped by 25%, so you want to know your best-case flow and build around that. It's a lot easier to start with a throttled-back clean pump and open it a little when the flow rate decreases. Figure out your system flow rate, multiply by 80%, and that will be a good starting point. But, it's not going to kill you to start at full flow, and end up with a little less over time. You might just want to clean your pump a little more often, say every 3 months. So it's up to you. Just being aware of your system conditions puts you miles ahead.

Big Basic Change #1 - Screen Size

Originally, the standard method used to calculate the screen size required was based on the size of the tank. Around September 2011, that method was revised to be based on feeding amount. This is a very important change, because not only does it mean an Algae Scrubber screen is more appropriately sized, it also means you will get better growth results. As it turns out, bigger is not necessarily better when it comes to your algae screen – the algae on a screen that is too large compared to the amount being fed will become nutrient deficient over time as the algae will want to grow across the entire screen. Concentrating this algae growth down to the appropriate size in accordance with the amount fed means you will typically get more green growth, and green hair algae is what filters the best (and smells the least, I might add).

The good news here is that this means that in most cases, you can get away with a significantly smaller screen, and guesstimating your bio-load specific to your system is completely unnecessary.

Once you figure out your available flow, then it's time to figure out your optimal screen dimensions.

There are 2 ways of looking at this: square inches based on length and width dimension, and square inches based on illuminated surface area. The latter is technically more accurate, but since most people light both sides, the former is usually referenced.

The new rule is based on cube-equivalent amount of food fed daily, regardless of how many gallons you have in the system. You need 12 square inches of screen illuminated on BOTH SIDES with a total of 12 watts of fluorescent light for 18 hours/day for each cube-equivalent fed into the system per day. That means 6 watts per side of real wattage, not equivalent wattage. LED wattage is addressed separately as it has a different set of rules.

The cube-equivalent is defined as any ONE of the following:

1 frozen cube
10 pinches of flake food
10 square inches (60 sq cm) of nori
0.1 dry ounce (2.8 grams) of pellet food
3.25 mL of liquid coral food

If you feed something else and are having a hard time determining the cube-equivalent, then take the daily amount of food, put it in a blender with some water and puree it well, then strain it using a coffee filter (or a rotifer sieve if you happen to have a spare one laying around) and pour the food into an empty Ocean Nutrition or other cube-type food tray, and you will have the cube-equivalent for that amount of food.

If you light the screen from only one side, double the dimensional measurement of the screen; light requirement is the same, it’s just all on one side.

For a non-vertical screen, double the dimensional measurement again. Any screen that is not 100% vertical is treated as a horizontal screen (even if it’s only slightly slanted). This is because of the channeling properties inherent to a slanted or horizontal screen; there is an immediate loss of efficiency when the screen is non-vertical.

So, just so we're 100% clear on this:

Vertical, lit from both sides: 12 square inches of screen material per cube of food per day, 12 watts of light split between each side.

Vertical, lit from only one side: 24 square inches of screen material per cube of food per day, 12 watts of light on one side.

Non-vertical: 48 square inches of screen material per cube of food per day. Lighting must increase by a factor of 1.5 (discussed in the lighting section). In this case, a MINIMUM of 18 watts of light is needed, preferably much, much more.

[percula99]

When I used to use air stones in my tank for my under gravel filter, I used wooden air stones. They provide a much finer bubble and dense bubble field than the store bought type you are using now. Wooden air stones do break down over time however and need to be replaced. The cost can be staggering. I went to the local lumber yard and bought myself a piece of basswood (called lime in Britain and linden or basswood in North America.) I cut my own on a table saw and had air stones to last a long long time. You could cut those to the size of the store bought stones.

[Dustin1300]

Originally Posted by percula99

When I used to use air stones in my tank for my under gravel filter, I used wooden air stones. They provide a much finer bubble and dense bubble field than the store bought type you are using now. Wooden air stones do break down over time however and need to be replaced. The cost can be staggering. I went to the local lumber yard and bought myself a piece of basswood (called lime in Britain and linden or basswood in North America.) I cut my own on a table saw and had air stones to last a long long time. You could cut those to the size of the store bought stones.

I saw an article on RB in March and just got the link to the seller. They make wood airstones and are only $3.59 for a 3"X3/4" airstone. They mention in listing that they will build custom sizes so sounds like an option that would not be as unreliable as a common airstone.

http://www.ebay.com/sch/Aquarium-Fis...e2&_ssn=hoolko

***I am in no way affiliated with this seller, just thought I'd share. I'm not planning on using the new design as it would not work with my setup and I have the room for a 3D box which I'd like to build

[srusso]

Algae Scrubbers in the news!
http://articles.baltimoresun.com/201...water-scrubber

[faisal629]

Im planing on building a scrubber for my 60 gallon cube with a 20 gal sump, I have had major algae problems before even with water from a new ro/di filter, My DT will have lights on for 12-14 hrs (LED so on low power) I plan on keeping it heavily stocked and feed a lot, Ill run 6 660nm stars and 2 455nm led on each side, how big of a screen would you recommend?
and does everything else look fine?

[rad1687]

Is it expected that the UAS will be just as effective as the water fall version? Are the lighting requirements the same?

[srusso]

Originally Posted by rad1687

Is it expected that the UAS will be just as effective as the water fall version? Are the lighting requirements the same?

Right now I assume it will be about the same give or take a few...

it is believed with the new design it will be able to handle far more light, b/c it will be very hard to burn the algae if possible at all. That will be tested over time.

[srusso]

Originally Posted by srusso

Day 15
(Today)

Screen has the slightest bit of green growing.
I brushed off most of the diatoms when I was attaching the hooks last night.

Another week has past. Green growth all over the screen. Hard to see in the first pic, all yellow-ish growth is actually a very nice heathy green. In the second pic I turned the scrubber cfl on to get a better color.

It's a 30 gallon with 3 small mollies in it... Things are moving a little slow... :-)

ImageUploadedByTapatalk1336483137.942344.jpg

ImageUploadedByTapatalk1336483170.110701.jpg