Reef Central Online Community

Home Forum Here you can view your subscribed threads, work with private messages and edit your profile and preferences View New Posts View Today's Posts

Find other members Frequently Asked Questions Search Reefkeeping ...an online magazine for marine aquarists Support our sponsors and mention Reef Central

Go Back   Reef Central Online Community > General Interest Forums > Advanced Topics
Register Blogs FAQ Calendar Mark Forums Read

Notices

Reply
Thread Tools
Old 11/03/2017, 03:19 PM   #9751
Horace
Registered Member
 
Horace's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Atlanta
Posts: 4,992
Is this normal? Its been running for like 6 weeks. This is REALLY dark nasty slimey shhtuff. You can't squeeze water out of it like u can hair algae. When u squeeze it it just oozes between ur fingers.

Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk


__________________
-Horace Pinker

Current Tank Info: New 180g Mixed SPS Build in progress
Horace is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 11/03/2017, 03:42 PM   #9752
Floyd R Turbo
Either busy or sleeping
 
Floyd R Turbo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: West Des Moines, IA
Posts: 4,111
Blog Entries: 15
That's generally indicative of high nutrients. Not quite as bad as the black thin sheet stuff, but still pretty dark. You will want to try and clear most of this off the screen. You still don't want to scrub hard, but you will want to scrape that stuff if it doesn't come off when you just rub with fingertips & rinse)


__________________
Algae Scrubber Basics!!! GOOGLE "algaescrubber zoho"
General Interest Forums --> Advanced Topics --> Algae Scrubber Basics (sticky)
--> POSTS #3251-64 (Basics), #5206 (Cleaning), #6884 (LEDs), #729
Floyd R Turbo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11/03/2017, 03:53 PM   #9753
karimwassef
Registered Member
 
karimwassef's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Dallas, TX
Posts: 10,701
Looks like a scrubber working great!


__________________
Failure isn't an option It's a requirement. 660g 380inwall+280smp/surge S/L/Soft/Maxima/RBTA/Clown/Chromis/Anthias/Tang/Mandarin/Jawfish/Goby/Wrasse/D'back. DIY 12' Skimmer ActuatedSurge ConcreteScape
karimwassef is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 11/03/2017, 03:54 PM   #9754
karimwassef
Registered Member
 
karimwassef's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Dallas, TX
Posts: 10,701
Any feedback on my solar experiment? Should I run the LEDs during the night?


__________________
Failure isn't an option It's a requirement. 660g 380inwall+280smp/surge S/L/Soft/Maxima/RBTA/Clown/Chromis/Anthias/Tang/Mandarin/Jawfish/Goby/Wrasse/D'back. DIY 12' Skimmer ActuatedSurge ConcreteScape
karimwassef is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 11/03/2017, 08:43 PM   #9755
Horace
Registered Member
 
Horace's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Atlanta
Posts: 4,992
Yeah my nutrients are likely super high ATM. I have not done a water change since starting the tank like 3months ago. And my skimmer has been offline for a month. Got a 30" lifereef skimmer ordered, so that should help slow down the nutrients a bit.

Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk


__________________
-Horace Pinker

Current Tank Info: New 180g Mixed SPS Build in progress
Horace is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 11/05/2017, 10:58 AM   #9756
Southpaw007
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2017
Posts: 10
I am setting up a peninsula 20, and I am trying to find a way to put an algae scrubber In the middle chamber. it's to small for a hog or drop style from Santa Monica. I don't want to externally plumb a waterfall type, so are there any ideas that would work in the middle chamber?

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G891A using Tapatalk


Southpaw007 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11/05/2017, 02:28 PM   #9757
SantaMonica
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Santa Monica, California, USA
Posts: 2,350
Put an airstone, and screen with strings attached, in there.


__________________
Inventor of the easy-to-DIY upflow scrubber, and also the waterfall scrubber with removable growth compartment:
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1424843

Current Tank Info: Various test setups
SantaMonica is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11/05/2017, 03:01 PM   #9758
karimwassef
Registered Member
 
karimwassef's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Dallas, TX
Posts: 10,701
Are we talking about an in-tank scrubber??!! Yes.. finally, we've arrived!

That's exactly my plan on my new tank. I use the bubbles to create a wall of algae that the fish can't access... then I turn off the air and let them graze when it's long enough. Sequestration and recycling in-tank!

I thought it was only possible on big tanks like mine but if it's feasible on small tanks, that would rock!


__________________
Failure isn't an option It's a requirement. 660g 380inwall+280smp/surge S/L/Soft/Maxima/RBTA/Clown/Chromis/Anthias/Tang/Mandarin/Jawfish/Goby/Wrasse/D'back. DIY 12' Skimmer ActuatedSurge ConcreteScape
karimwassef is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 11/05/2017, 08:31 PM   #9759
Floyd R Turbo
Either busy or sleeping
 
Floyd R Turbo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: West Des Moines, IA
Posts: 4,111
Blog Entries: 15
@karimwassef, I can't tell if you're being sarcastic or if you haven't heard of the UAS


__________________
Algae Scrubber Basics!!! GOOGLE "algaescrubber zoho"
General Interest Forums --> Advanced Topics --> Algae Scrubber Basics (sticky)
--> POSTS #3251-64 (Basics), #5206 (Cleaning), #6884 (LEDs), #729
Floyd R Turbo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11/05/2017, 10:24 PM   #9760
karimwassef
Registered Member
 
karimwassef's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Dallas, TX
Posts: 10,701
Upflow scrubbers have been around for a while. It's putting it inside the display tank that I think is novel and I am excited to do it.


__________________
Failure isn't an option It's a requirement. 660g 380inwall+280smp/surge S/L/Soft/Maxima/RBTA/Clown/Chromis/Anthias/Tang/Mandarin/Jawfish/Goby/Wrasse/D'back. DIY 12' Skimmer ActuatedSurge ConcreteScape
karimwassef is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 11/06/2017, 10:46 AM   #9761
iced98lx
.
 
iced98lx's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: South Dakota
Posts: 2,201
Quote:
Originally Posted by Southpaw007 View Post
In the middle chamber.
User in question was asking about putting it in one of the 'back' chambers of his AIO, not within the visible DT if I understand correctly.


__________________
Chris

180 Gallon In Wall
iced98lx is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 11/06/2017, 06:10 PM   #9762
karimwassef
Registered Member
 
karimwassef's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Dallas, TX
Posts: 10,701
awwww... so still doing the weird on my own I guess.


__________________
Failure isn't an option It's a requirement. 660g 380inwall+280smp/surge S/L/Soft/Maxima/RBTA/Clown/Chromis/Anthias/Tang/Mandarin/Jawfish/Goby/Wrasse/D'back. DIY 12' Skimmer ActuatedSurge ConcreteScape
karimwassef is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 11/11/2017, 07:40 PM   #9763
iammrhappy
Registered Member
 
iammrhappy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: 90703
Posts: 725
Quote:
Originally Posted by z3speed4me View Post
Well I am jumping into the scrubber world!

Got one for a real good price from a local guy that built a tank that never got it up and running and just parted out. It's from 302 Aquatics, so not as good as Turbo's unit (which will likely be what I purchase later if this attempt goes well). But it should still work for what I need.

I'll try to remember to take some pics of my progress. Just hooked it up last night. Only thing I have noticed with this design is these flood lights get quite warm when in my cabinet closed all day, wondering if it will have any impact on water temp, thinking of adding a fan or two in there to provide some airflow.

Look like these, but are white light not red (maybe swap them??)
https://www.amazon.com/Floodoor-Ligh...nt+flood+light
How do these lights work for you?

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk


__________________
225 gallon Lee Mar



Pizza >
iammrhappy is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 11/12/2017, 06:50 AM   #9764
salty joe
Registered Member
 
salty joe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: medina, ohio
Posts: 2,371
Quote:
Originally Posted by karimwassef View Post
awwww... so still doing the weird on my own I guess.
Haha, I've heard it said that it's lonely at the top. You've done a lot of cool and innovative things. Keep rolling!


__________________
Time to roll the dice.
salty joe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11/12/2017, 06:20 PM   #9765
iammrhappy
Registered Member
 
iammrhappy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: 90703
Posts: 725
What do you guys think of sticking the roughed up mesh sheet into a lighted reactor?

I saw a guy do it on YouTube and he has success. It's pretty much the same method as a chaeto reactor except you have the mesh screen in there.

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk


__________________
225 gallon Lee Mar



Pizza >
iammrhappy is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 11/12/2017, 06:21 PM   #9766
iammrhappy
Registered Member
 
iammrhappy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: 90703
Posts: 725
Here's the video https://youtu.be/eigiaiZWtfc

I know in the video comments Santa Monica was concerned about air flow into the reactor.

My idea is to add an air valve into the water input of the reactor. A venturi concept like our skimmers


What do you guys think?

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk


__________________
225 gallon Lee Mar



Pizza >

Last edited by iammrhappy; 11/12/2017 at 06:49 PM.
iammrhappy is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 11/13/2017, 06:42 AM   #9767
karimwassef
Registered Member
 
karimwassef's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Dallas, TX
Posts: 10,701
I've done something like that before. The problem is bacteria. Without the air mixing, bacteria set up shop and in some cases totally overwhelmed the algae... and I ended up with a cyano reactor instead of an algae reactor.


__________________
Failure isn't an option It's a requirement. 660g 380inwall+280smp/surge S/L/Soft/Maxima/RBTA/Clown/Chromis/Anthias/Tang/Mandarin/Jawfish/Goby/Wrasse/D'back. DIY 12' Skimmer ActuatedSurge ConcreteScape
karimwassef is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 11/13/2017, 09:12 PM   #9768
iced98lx
.
 
iced98lx's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: South Dakota
Posts: 2,201
Quote:
Originally Posted by iced98lx View Post
Oh, in case it helps, here is what it looks like after 10 days of growth:

A fresh 10 days:

1113172106

[/url]1113172106a

Denser, better anchored. I pulled 3-5x that from the DT though. I have a DC6000 standing by, in case it needs more flow.


__________________
Chris

180 Gallon In Wall
iced98lx is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 11/14/2017, 09:17 AM   #9769
Floyd R Turbo
Either busy or sleeping
 
Floyd R Turbo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: West Des Moines, IA
Posts: 4,111
Blog Entries: 15
Sounds like it's competing with the tank algae, what's your DT lighting type, intensity, schedule, etc?

Do you have a lot of corals?

What are your water params?

Offhand I would say, intensity is OK but with the DT competition, you might not be able to push it much harder based on that growth color. But, you should be able to extend hours. I would go to 16 or 18, same intensity (4)

Then I would consider adjusting the DT lights in some fashion, this will depend on corals, but essentially making is less algae-friendly by backing them off somehow, and let the scrubber out-compete it. Make a small change for a start and see if that shifts growth to the scrubber. Don't make a huge change, that can shock the system. Just a test and observe results (10-20% reduction, etc). If it seems like that makes a difference, then up the scrubber intensity and flow a bit and observe, then continue down that path.


__________________
Algae Scrubber Basics!!! GOOGLE "algaescrubber zoho"
General Interest Forums --> Advanced Topics --> Algae Scrubber Basics (sticky)
--> POSTS #3251-64 (Basics), #5206 (Cleaning), #6884 (LEDs), #729
Floyd R Turbo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11/14/2017, 09:39 AM   #9770
iced98lx
.
 
iced98lx's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: South Dakota
Posts: 2,201
Quote:
Originally Posted by Floyd R Turbo View Post
Sounds like it's competing with the tank algae, what's your DT lighting type, intensity, schedule, etc?
LED + T5, very intense, T5's 12 hours LED's 6 (LED's do not ramp in, just turn on for 6 hours then off like a MH would)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Floyd R Turbo View Post
Do you have a lot of corals?
Yes

Quote:
Originally Posted by Floyd R Turbo View Post
What are your water params?
CA: 500
Alk: 8.3

I don't test phosphate or nitrate typically but I'll see if my ULR phosphorus tester has good reagent.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Floyd R Turbo View Post
Offhand I would say, intensity is OK but with the DT competition, you might not be able to push it much harder based on that growth color. But, you should be able to extend hours. I would go to 16 or 18, same intensity (4)
I'll extend the lighting time by an hour a day until I get to 16 and leave it for 10ish days and see where we land. I'm running the scrubber opposite the DT lights, should I run it at the same time? I am not worried about PH at night as I dose soda ash overnight.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Floyd R Turbo View Post
Then I would consider adjusting the DT lights in some fashion, this will depend on corals, but essentially making is less algae-friendly by backing them off somehow, and let the scrubber out-compete it. Make a small change for a start and see if that shifts growth to the scrubber. Don't make a huge change, that can shock the system. Just a test and observe results (10-20% reduction, etc). If it seems like that makes a difference, then up the scrubber intensity and flow a bit and observe, then continue down that path.
I really, really don't want to change the DT lights if I can avoid it. Coral health is good, with strong growth and good coloration. It's been a long road after my child came to get the tank back to growing coral reliably and this would be a last ditch for me.

Thanks for the guidance.


__________________
Chris

180 Gallon In Wall
iced98lx is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 11/14/2017, 10:06 AM   #9771
Floyd R Turbo
Either busy or sleeping
 
Floyd R Turbo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: West Des Moines, IA
Posts: 4,111
Blog Entries: 15
Quote:
Originally Posted by iced98lx View Post
I'll extend the lighting time by an hour a day until I get to 16 and leave it for 10ish days and see where we land. I'm running the scrubber opposite the DT lights, should I run it at the same time? I am not worried about PH at night as I dose soda ash overnight.
You can run it opposite the DT lights, that's fine. Don't worry about overlap, that's fine also (obviously, you were running 24/7 so you're not worried)
Quote:
Originally Posted by iced98lx View Post
I really, really don't want to change the DT lights if I can avoid it. Coral health is good, with strong growth and good coloration. It's been a long road after my child came to get the tank back to growing coral reliably and this would be a last ditch for me.
I can understand the reluctance. That's why I didn't suggest a blackout or anything like that. I was thinking more like going to 11 hours T5 and 5 hours LED in your case. Doing that (or even 2 hours off of each) shouldn't adversely affect your corals, and if you're keeping track of algae growth in the tank and scrubber, you should notice a bit of a difference.

I also have to wonder if the algae growth on the rocks is a result of built-up nutrients over time, that is now leeching out. That's the tough one to beat when you have encrusted corals, it just takes time to leech everything out (sometimes, 6-12 months). The nutrients and light are right there on the surface of the rock, so the algae gets first crack as it's getting released from the rock structure.

Nitrate and phosphate levels would be good to know. My guess is that they are reasonably low, if not zero.


__________________
Algae Scrubber Basics!!! GOOGLE "algaescrubber zoho"
General Interest Forums --> Advanced Topics --> Algae Scrubber Basics (sticky)
--> POSTS #3251-64 (Basics), #5206 (Cleaning), #6884 (LEDs), #729
Floyd R Turbo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11/14/2017, 10:19 AM   #9772
iced98lx
.
 
iced98lx's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: South Dakota
Posts: 2,201
Quote:
Originally Posted by Floyd R Turbo View Post
You can run it opposite the DT lights, that's fine. Don't worry about overlap, that's fine also (obviously, you were running 24/7 so you're not worried)

I can understand the reluctance. That's why I didn't suggest a blackout or anything like that. I was thinking more like going to 11 hours T5 and 5 hours LED in your case. Doing that (or even 2 hours off of each) shouldn't adversely affect your corals, and if you're keeping track of algae growth in the tank and scrubber, you should notice a bit of a difference.
I'll cut LED by an hour and see if that helps. To be honest I was strongly contemplating going the other way and extending LED to 7 hours but I can always experiment with that once the algae in the DT is under control. I'll make that change this week.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Floyd R Turbo View Post
I also have to wonder if the algae growth on the rocks is a result of built-up nutrients over time, that is now leeching out. That's the tough one to beat when you have encrusted corals, it just takes time to leech everything out (sometimes, 6-12 months). The nutrients and light are right there on the surface of the rock, so the algae gets first crack as it's getting released from the rock structure.

Nitrate and phosphate levels would be good to know. My guess is that they are reasonably low, if not zero.
I would assume there is some amount of build up certainly. For a long time I just let let it grow, pulled it and didn't worry assuming it'd slow down when it finished leaching. Just seemingly never finished. I stopped testing phosphate as it consistently came back 0 with the GHA growth in the tank sucking it all up. The only time I've had any was when I ran GFO for a month, then stopped abruptly, prior to the GHA regrowth I measured some phosphate. I did use Lanthium Chloride on the rock prior to it going in the system several years ago.


__________________
Chris

180 Gallon In Wall
iced98lx is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 11/14/2017, 11:16 AM   #9773
Floyd R Turbo
Either busy or sleeping
 
Floyd R Turbo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: West Des Moines, IA
Posts: 4,111
Blog Entries: 15
The issue with leeching, IMO, is that it's 2 stages (potentially) - short term and long term.

The short term is the soft surface that dissolves rather easily. Can't recall the term for this. Anyways, it still takes time to leech this off so a short treatment with water that is heavily filtered with GFO or treated with LC will pull out the phosphate out of the water, but not the rock - unless you "cooked" the rock, and regularly treated/filtered the water.

The long-term is where you have crystallized calcium + phosphate deposited on to the rock (this happens rather easily in the tank). This can only be released by acid treatment (pH must be below about 7.0) or in-tank via bacteria (PSBs = phosphate solublizing bacteria). It's a theory that fits the results on PSBs. Bacteria and algae work symbiotically to "cleave" phosphate from the rock. The bacteria create a highly localized low pH area that breaks the bonds. When the bond breaks, that pH jumps back up, so it takes a long time for a large amount of rock to get "cleaned up" when this process is happening.

It's possible that "cooking" the rock (for months) puts this process into overdrive.

So the net is that if you have old rock that has built up a lot of waste over time, it can take a long time to reverse that.

There's actually logic in "burning it out" by increasing the DT lights duration/intensity...but that usually means, lots of hand-harvesting, and risking corals getting ticked off.


__________________
Algae Scrubber Basics!!! GOOGLE "algaescrubber zoho"
General Interest Forums --> Advanced Topics --> Algae Scrubber Basics (sticky)
--> POSTS #3251-64 (Basics), #5206 (Cleaning), #6884 (LEDs), #729
Floyd R Turbo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11/14/2017, 12:33 PM   #9774
iced98lx
.
 
iced98lx's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: South Dakota
Posts: 2,201
I just always assumed get my inputs and outputs inline (thus my effort on the ATS) and eventually things will stabilize. I have 3 tuxedo urchins and a scopas tang and keeping up is a laughable proposition at this point. My plan is get the ATS maximized, if it can't keep up it's either bigger ATS or big fuge with big lights time.


__________________
Chris

180 Gallon In Wall
iced98lx is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 11/14/2017, 01:48 PM   #9775
anothermineral
Registered Member
 
anothermineral's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: NJ
Posts: 232
Thoughts on using a 20W LED flood light that uses multiple lights vs. just one to make the total wattage.

For example, between the following:

https://www.lightingever.com/20w-sup...lights-ww.html

and

https://www.lightingever.com/1600lm-...049-ww-us.html


__________________
Live and Learn
anothermineral is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
algae scrubber/heavy metals charles matthews Randy Holmes-Farley 6 11/03/2016 09:32 PM
xenia scrubber instead of algae scrubber? dolt SPS Keepers 40 04/07/2011 12:34 PM
Try again: Is anybody running an algae scrubber as primary filter. Frick-n-Frags Reef Discussion 166 08/03/2008 04:58 PM


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 01:59 PM.


TapaTalk Enabled

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Powered by Searchlight © 2017 Axivo Inc.
Use of this web site is subject to the terms and conditions described in the user agreement.
Reef CentralTM Reef Central, LLC. Copyright 1999-2014