Algae Scrubber Basics

[srusso]

Originally Posted by langtudatinh01

i have a question, when you clean your scrubber, do you have to completely remove all the algae on both sides? do you have to scrub it clean with like...a brush or something? Thanks.

You clean most of the algae off, about 95%.

[langtudatinh01]

Thanks scrusso. i will do that.

[travis32]

I thought I read on here to only remove what is easily removable. If you remove too much algae from the screen you risk starting the ATS over with the 3-4 week growth period and cutting your water cleansing ability down too low...

At least my understanding. I think that I'd take a brust to it. I just take something fairly smooth and run it along the screen scraping what I can easily get off and leaving the rest. When I clean mine tomorrow it will be the first time I get anything tangible out of my scrubber.

[Lemeshianos]

Originally Posted by Floyd R Turbo

You could make one that sits on top of the smaller tank and let the drain feed it directly, or are you wanting to hide the ATS completely? Something like the Santa Monica 100 would be good in a situation like this, an enclosed box with full light blocking. You would need more flow, around 700 GPH, but if you have 3 feet under the tank that's plenty of room for a 30 long sump and a 7" tall ATS on top of it, total of about 23" I believe.

If you do it right, you fan put a fan across the ATS screen and put a temp controller on it and ditch the chiller. Evaporative cooling is very efficient.

Due to the pieces that support the tank, the width that I can work with under the tank is 25cm which is about 10 inches.
The length is 48 inches. I did see some ideas on this thread where they use the regular T8 lamps which I have around sitting and I could use those for the ATS instead of other lights.

But I will still have to figure a couple of things out.

Given my tank volume I must have around 80 sq inches double sided area.
I can go with a height of 12 inches and width of 7-8 inches.
That width will require a flow of 300 gallons (which I can get from gravity feed). I will have to mod my return but since I can hide the algae scrubber I'd rather do that than have in next to the display tank.

So lets say that the drain from the DT goes down and into the cabinet and feeds the ATS and into the sump1. This water will be filling the sump1 so I will need to pump it to sump2(which will be holding the skimmer, heater, reactor, etc).

So I will be using pump1 to send the water from sump1 to sump2 and pump2 to send water from sump2 to DT.
How can I be sure that I won't overflow or drain one of the sumps(and burn a pump)?

In my previous setup, I had the level of the water in the sump marked so that I knew how much water I needed to top-off. (for the new setup I will be making an auto-top off).

Can I have some suggestions? It will be easier for me to have the auto-top off add water in the sump1(where the ATS will be).

[Floyd R Turbo]

I can tell you this, it will be next to impossible to balance the flow between 2 sumps with one pump feeding into the other sump. You are asking for a disaster. Don't do it.

Even if you could balance it, it would have to be 100% in perfect balance, and it won't stay that way. If (when) one pump fails, that sump will fill up and the running one will go dry. Your sumps would have to be sized to handle the volume of extra water in the tank plus the operating water in the other sump.

You could have each of them on separate drains and return to the tank independently. However if one pump fails, water will continue to drain into that sump and eventually it will either overflow or the sump with the working pump will go dry, same as before. Either way, it's bad.

The only way to make a 2-pump, 2-sump system work safely is to put them at the same level (top of sump1 to top of sump2 is equal) and interconnect them below the top with bulkheads and tubing. That way if one pump fails, the water will continue to flow back to the tank from both sumps.

[Floyd R Turbo]

I just thought about this though, you were planning on draining to the lower sump, then pumping up to the higher sump, then back into the tank. This is the disaster scenario. However, if you put a bulkhead in the middle-level tank and allow it to gravity feed to the lower tank, then plumb the overflow from the DT into the middle tank, you only need one pump to return water and you have no problems with a disaster, unless the drain line from the tank to sump1 or from sump1 to sump2 clogs.

[JJ Ocean]

First off, great thread! Thanks Floyd and all those who contributed. I’m in the process of designing my algae scrubber. I’ll post pics when done.

One question … I’ve found sources for all the stuff I need except two. Where are you all getting your o-rings to prevent water from coming back down the source water pipe that holds the mesh? The mesh itself, seems like I can source locally from craft stores for 10”x13” squares, but is there a craft store chain that I can source a single sheet of mesh 22”x16”?

Thanks!

[Floyd R Turbo]

The largest I have found is about 11x17 or 12x18 I think, found that at either Michaels or Jo-Anne Fabrics.

The o-rings you can find at Ace Hardware, I found that they have the best selection of all kinds of sizes and types of o-rings. I personally like this one instead of an o-ring





I think I got it for 75 cents or something

[richierich2000]

I found 13 5/8" x 22 5/8" sheets

anniesattic

[Soundtrigger]

I need one of these huh Floyd cause this thread is awesome and so are scrubbers

[maglofster]

In this post the poster, as far as I can understand, attributes an outbreak of cyano to his ATS. Could that be right?

[Floyd R Turbo]

Algae scrubbers will eventually beat down the cyano. I wouldn't say it was necessarily the cause. If that was the case, you would hear all kinds of people running scrubbers complaining about how their tanks are overridden with cyano, and you just don't hear about them that much. The tank I run it on has zero nitrates (even on Salifert looking from the side, it's perfectly clear) but I still have phosphates, and no cyano at all.

So there could be hundreds of reasons why he got a cyano outbreak. With a scrubber, if you have algae in the display and phosphates have been present for long enough, the rocks and substrate will soak up the P like a sponge and then leech it out as P drops. So occasionally you will see a tank running a scrubber with N + P = 0 and algae all over, because the LR is a constant source. The same is true for cyano in some fashion. If you start a scrubber and it battles away the hair algae in the display, once that battle is over you can get a cyano outbreak, but the scrubber will win if it is strong enough and given enough time.

I have won the battle over cyano in a high nutrient FO tank without a scrubber so there are plenty of ways to do it, pinpointing one reason for it is pretty much impossible. Cyano battle requires persistence and time.

[klviper]

Well after 3 weeks it seems to be doing well

[srusso]

Originally Posted by klviper

Well after 3 weeks it seems to be doing well

That is amazing growth for 3 weeks! Nice work!

[bucks448]

I may have missed this...

Does using a UV sterilizer have any negative impact on a scrubber? I've had to run one for the last 24hrs to clear up a major bloom I had (not related to the scrubber!), and I was just wondering if I should be on the look out for anything with the scrubber.

[dogstar74]

A UV sterilizer will have no effect on an Algal scrubber.

[Floyd R Turbo]

Originally Posted by klviper

Well after 3 weeks it seems to be doing well

So this is one of your screen sections, how do the other ones look? Is this one from the end, it looks like there was little growth along the one side. I remember you had 1000+ gallon system and a 24 x 48 build with 8 54W T5HOs on one side. Did you ever add lights to the second side?

I would like to see pictures of all the screens. This one looks like great growth, right on track for quick maturity.

[klviper]

They all looked the same. I had scrapped the one side off (see white area) to give contrast. I still havent added the other light panel. I will probably do that this comming weekend if I get time. I just cleaned them before taking this pic so I will take pics of all of the screens next week before cleaning.

[srusso]

Originally Posted by dogstar74

A UV sterilizer will have no effect on an Algal scrubber.

+1 will be fine

[travis32]

Wow, I don't see that kinda of growth at all and I'm on my second month. I was lucky to have some slime algae to scrape off this past week. I keep hoping for more growth each week. But the Hair algae in the display appears to be stunted... Not neccessarily dieing, but not growing rapidly either. However, the glass fills in with algae pretty fast...

I can scrape it and within 24-48 hours it's hard to see through the glass from all the film algae growing on the glass.

[Dave1NC]

Originally Posted by Floyd R Turbo

So this is one of your screen sections, how do the other ones look? Is this one from the end, it looks like there was little growth along the one side. I remember you had 1000+ gallon system and a 24 x 48 build with 8 54W T5HOs on one side. Did you ever add lights to the second side?

I would like to see pictures of all the screens. This one looks like great growth, right on track for quick maturity.

FTR - I was wondering what your PO4 levels were. I know you've been running an ATS for a while now. Do you use a Hana tester?

My PO4 have been pretty low, but I am still running GFO and dosing MB7. This has worked well for me in the past and I will probably keep using it. I no longer add carbon.

Originally Posted by travis32

Wow, I don't see that kinda of growth at all and I'm on my second month. I was lucky to have some slime algae to scrape off this past week. I keep hoping for more growth each week. But the Hair algae in the display appears to be stunted... Not neccessarily dieing, but not growing rapidly either. However, the glass fills in with algae pretty fast...

I can scrape it and within 24-48 hours it's hard to see through the glass from all the film algae growing on the glass.

I am with you Travis. Mine looks more like green slime than hair algae. I may get a few little tuffs of hair algae, but noting like that. I was also cleaned my screen with a hose the first couple of times, but used my fingers that last time.

[TheFishMan65]

I believe the MB7 is counter productive to ATSs. MB7 is a bacteria culture. It has a load of bacteria that will take the nitrate and phosphates out of the water as the bacteria grow (just like the ATS), and the bacteria can then be removed with a skimmer. A lot of folks are using MB7 to start the bio pellets.

[Floyd R Turbo]

Is MB7 a carbon source? Carbon dosing has been shown to decrease scrubber growth.

I just took a water sample before cleaning the screen, haven't tested the PO4 yet. Will do tonight. I am still getting readings, they fluctuate from 0.09 to 0.13, and as high as 0.19 when I had a top-off water quality issue that I caught way too late. But testing with distilled water last time it read 0.03 so I don't know what to think about the Hanna tester. It does have a +/- 0.04 accuracy, pretty poor if you're trying to keep it below 0.04. They have a phosphorus meter now that goes in ppb instead of ppm

[Floyd R Turbo]

double post

[Dave1NC]

It was my understanding you need to start slow with the ATS. I didn't remove the skimmer until I cleaned the screen at least 4 times. I'll stop using MB7 and keep an eye on my parameters to see how things go. I also read some people still run GFO w/a ATS. Do you use GFO to rely totally on the scrubber to remove phos and nitra?