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Old 03/13/2011, 12:44 PM   #1
Sk8r
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ICH: how to cure it, id it, understand it.

http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1985626

It doesn't operate the way you may think.


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Old 03/29/2011, 10:23 PM   #2
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I've had success in the past using a short 5-10 minute freshwater dip. the fresh water supposedly causes the cysts to burst and release the parasites into the water. then rinse the fish to keep from transfering the parasites back into the main tank. just be sure to get the ph of the dip water the same as that of the tank. the salinity difference is enough shock to the fish as it is. also be sure to keep a very close eye on the fish during the dip so you can put them back in salt water if they begin to act funny.


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Old 03/29/2011, 11:19 PM   #3
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A great set of articles from Advanced Aquarist...

http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2003/11/mini
http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2003/12/mini
http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2004/1/mini
http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2004/2/mini

A great review of the lifecycle of the ich.
Why the suggested lengths of treatment.
Scientific data to back up the claims.

Did you know there is a strain of ich resistent to hyposalinity.
Ich only feed on host for 3-7 days before falling off.
Then encyst on the substrate and reproduce to form 200 to 1000+ progeny.
Then only have 12 to 48hrs after they excyst to infect a new host.

He stresses that ich IS NOT present in all SW tanks. And can be eliminated and prevented with proper QT and treatment procedures.


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Old 04/11/2011, 01:41 PM   #4
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I had a major Ich infestation in my 180 a year or so ago. I tried to aquire all my fish and transplant them to a "quarantine" tank and treated with copper. I managed to quarantine 3 of the 4 larger fish, luckily I was never able to get my other moorish idol to enter the fish trap. Of the 3 fish, 2 died. Not to mention, there were several other smaller fish that would require disassembly of my tank. At the time I read up on the lifecycle and the preferred treatment.

In the end I was never successful in treating the Ich, and I was able to give away the lone surviving Powder Blue to a party knowing that it had the Symptoms.

My tank to this day, since then, has not had so much as a fish rubbing a gill. In other words, not a single sign that the bug exists. But Im sure it does...

My point is, sometimes the safer thing to try, is donate or quarantine a fish or two. Try the bully or the wimp, or maybe its the water quality or crowdedness, whichever/whatever is causing unrest and nervousness. Believe me, I love science and the theory and facts about the Ich lifecycle and the ways to disrupt and end it. But in all practicality, ask yourself, are you doing more harm then good? Maybe you can pull off an entire quarantine of your tank. For me it proved too difficult and deadly. I should have just removed my to aggressors upon first indication, and waiting a couple weeks.


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Old 04/12/2011, 01:12 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scungili View Post
I had a major Ich infestation in my 180 a year or so ago. I tried to aquire all my fish and transplant them to a "quarantine" tank and treated with copper. I managed to quarantine 3 of the 4 larger fish, luckily I was never able to get my other moorish idol to enter the fish trap. Of the 3 fish, 2 died. Not to mention, there were several other smaller fish that would require disassembly of my tank. At the time I read up on the lifecycle and the preferred treatment.

In the end I was never successful in treating the Ich, and I was able to give away the lone surviving Powder Blue to a party knowing that it had the Symptoms.

My tank to this day, since then, has not had so much as a fish rubbing a gill. In other words, not a single sign that the bug exists. But Im sure it does...

My point is, sometimes the safer thing to try, is donate or quarantine a fish or two. Try the bully or the wimp, or maybe its the water quality or crowdedness, whichever/whatever is causing unrest and nervousness. Believe me, I love science and the theory and facts about the Ich lifecycle and the ways to disrupt and end it. But in all practicality, ask yourself, are you doing more harm then good? Maybe you can pull off an entire quarantine of your tank. For me it proved too difficult and deadly. I should have just removed my to aggressors upon first indication, and waiting a couple weeks.
Well said and the point I continually try and make on this subject around here.


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Old 04/26/2011, 10:28 PM   #6
justin serve
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I don't like doing fresh water dips I had the longest ICH problem with my blue hippo tang she got ICH all the time all I did was let it be and her immune system and feeding her really well helped her defeat it she is now 4 years old and I have not seen ICH in my tank for years. You could use mella green it works and is reef safe you could also buy some cleaner shrimp that works to. Anyways I got a quick question I'm getting a baby dwarf lion fish I'd like some impute on that


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Old 05/02/2011, 10:52 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scungili View Post
I had a major Ich infestation in my 180 a year or so ago. I tried to aquire all my fish and transplant them to a "quarantine" tank and treated with copper. I managed to quarantine 3 of the 4 larger fish, luckily I was never able to get my other moorish idol to enter the fish trap. Of the 3 fish, 2 died. Not to mention, there were several other smaller fish that would require disassembly of my tank. At the time I read up on the lifecycle and the preferred treatment.

In the end I was never successful in treating the Ich, and I was able to give away the lone surviving Powder Blue to a party knowing that it had the Symptoms.

My tank to this day, since then, has not had so much as a fish rubbing a gill. In other words, not a single sign that the bug exists. But Im sure it does...

My point is, sometimes the safer thing to try, is donate or quarantine a fish or two. Try the bully or the wimp, or maybe its the water quality or crowdedness, whichever/whatever is causing unrest and nervousness. Believe me, I love science and the theory and facts about the Ich lifecycle and the ways to disrupt and end it. But in all practicality, ask yourself, are you doing more harm then good? Maybe you can pull off an entire quarantine of your tank. For me it proved too difficult and deadly. I should have just removed my to aggressors upon first indication, and waiting a couple weeks.
I agree 100% and it seems others agree as well. Ultimately everyone makes a different choice, but I've vowed to never use chemical treatment for Ich again. The damage that it causes to the fish is just not worth it. I commend you on your new outlook!



Last edited by Blinkgyrl2987; 05/02/2011 at 10:53 PM. Reason: misspelling
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Old 05/25/2011, 08:54 PM   #8
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Instant Ocean Ich tablets (titrating the dose up to the standard dose to ensure no adverse effects), UV sterilizer, removed carbon during treatment, good protein skimmer, live brine shrimp, multiple small feedings with a variety of frozen/dry foods, vitamin supplements, lowered salinity to 1.021 for 1-2 weeks and raised it back up to 1.025 slowly over the next 1-2 weeks, nori got rid of the ich in my purple tang. It is happy, fat and healty now. Quarantine of all fish is a must. Minimize stress to fish is critical with space and inhabitants. Re-arrange aquascape frequently to reduce aggression and keep fishes stimulated with new environments/flow. This was my recipe.


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Old 06/03/2011, 09:53 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scungili View Post
I had a major Ich infestation in my 180 a year or so ago. I tried to aquire all my fish and transplant them to a "quarantine" tank and treated with copper. I managed to quarantine 3 of the 4 larger fish, luckily I was never able to get my other moorish idol to enter the fish trap. Of the 3 fish, 2 died. Not to mention, there were several other smaller fish that would require disassembly of my tank. At the time I read up on the lifecycle and the preferred treatment.

In the end I was never successful in treating the Ich, and I was able to give away the lone surviving Powder Blue to a party knowing that it had the Symptoms.

My tank to this day, since then, has not had so much as a fish rubbing a gill. In other words, not a single sign that the bug exists. But Im sure it does...

My point is, sometimes the safer thing to try, is donate or quarantine a fish or two. Try the bully or the wimp, or maybe its the water quality or crowdedness, whichever/whatever is causing unrest and nervousness. Believe me, I love science and the theory and facts about the Ich lifecycle and the ways to disrupt and end it. But in all practicality, ask yourself, are you doing more harm then good? Maybe you can pull off an entire quarantine of your tank. For me it proved too difficult and deadly. I should have just removed my to aggressors upon first indication, and waiting a couple weeks.
I believe this is a good arguement of the value of QT before introduction to the DT. Taking fish out of an existing tank is not a fun job. The fish don't enjoy it nor the owner. However, an initial quarantine of only 1 fish at a time is not difficult to do. The fact remains that if you don't QT, you accept the risk that goes along with it. No professional aquarium would ever dream of skipping the QT, the risk is too great. For some home aquarists, taking on this risk is considered acceptable. If the fish gets sick and dies, they can just get another, or some simliar mindset. The fact that some of us think one way and some think another is fine, but does not diminish the value of a good QT process. Here is a great article on quarantine.

An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure:
http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2004-1...ture/index.php


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Old 06/03/2011, 01:32 PM   #10
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very good read.. many people have the misconception that by over feeding high nutritious foods with garlic/ dips/ salinity dips/ you can fight and treat ick. Heck, many LFS recommend doing those types of false bandage treatments. They sell you selcon/garlic/ and in some cases try to sell you 10-20 gallon treatment tanks to cure ick. LFS stores should read these articles.

The only true way is fallow/ QT fish for treatment.


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Old 06/04/2011, 12:47 AM   #11
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Originally Posted by sanchoy View Post
very good read.. many people have the misconception that by over feeding high nutritious foods with garlic/ dips/ salinity dips/ you can fight and treat ick. Heck, many LFS recommend doing those types of false bandage treatments. They sell you selcon/garlic/ and in some cases try to sell you 10-20 gallon treatment tanks to cure ick. LFS stores should read these articles.

The only true way is fallow/ QT fish for treatment.
Well, maybe many LFS's tell you to do this because it works. My personal experience (3 years since first and only outbreak) tells me it does.


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Old 06/17/2011, 11:17 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mess7777 View Post
An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure:
http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2004-1...ture/index.php
Regardless of specifics, this seems to be everyone's common thread: Treatment of a sick fish represently a failure unto itself - in almost all cases Ich can be avoided.

An incomplete list of possible failures:
  • adding a fish of dubious health to a tank
  • overstocked tank
  • too big of fish in too small a vessel
  • no QT procedure (who has space to QT a (e.g.) large tang?
  • incompatible fish (regardless of what the books say) being kept together

Obviously, this list could go on.


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Old 07/09/2011, 05:52 PM   #13
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I over feed and use garlic extract and the ich on my purple tang has never seem to go away completely.It seems to come back every once in a while.I guess I should do a fresh water dip.I do not know what to look for with signs of trouble.I am some what new to this sort of thing.Any advise would be of great help.


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Old 07/09/2011, 11:16 PM   #14
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Freshwater dip does nothing but to stress it more. Give it plenty of hiding space. I got an Achilles three weeks ago and it had ich. Less stress fast recovery. Avoid sticking your hands in the tank. I dont quarantine. I just feed them more often. Seems like any new fish I add to the tank it will have ich but the other fish shows no signs of ich. Cleaner shrimp also helps.


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Old 07/21/2011, 06:49 PM   #15
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Peroxide anyone?
Cleaner shrimp do nothing for ich.


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Old 07/28/2011, 07:38 AM   #16
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A fresh water dip is useful (although not curative) for oodinium. It has no effect on cryptocaryon irritans.


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Old 08/11/2011, 12:39 PM   #17
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ICH Treatment and Hypo Salinity

All valid points another options that I'm surprised has not be discussed is the Hypo salinity method. I have had a 75 reef for a while and in the beginning I had to battle the dreaded ICH. However, after talking with my LFS I did a little research and decided that this was the least aggressive treatment with a relatively high success rate. All that is required is multiple water changes over 2-3 days to lower your tank salinity to around 1.009-8 range. This level must be maintained for roughly 1 month or until all signs of spots are gone (beyond the initial die off as this is simply a stage in the ICH life cycle.) Being that ICH is a simple parasite it can't adapt to the swing in salinity as your fish can and will die. Once your fish have been spot free for around a month you can slowly adjust the salinity back up to the normal 1.025-26 level and observe. This method will save the heartache of losing fish and the pain staking process of removing fish to QT.


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Old 08/11/2011, 12:45 PM   #18
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All valid points another options that I'm surprised has not be discussed is the Hypo salinity method. I have had a 75 reef for a while and in the beginning I had to battle the dreaded ICH. However, after talking with my LFS I did a little research and decided that this was the least aggressive treatment with a relatively high success rate. All that is required is multiple water changes over 2-3 days to lower your tank salinity to around 1.009-8 range. This level must be maintained for roughly 1 month or until all signs of spots are gone (beyond the initial die off as this is simply a stage in the ICH life cycle.) Being that ICH is a simple parasite it can't adapt to the swing in salinity as your fish can and will die. Once your fish have been spot free for around a month you can slowly adjust the salinity back up to the normal 1.025-26 level and observe. This method will save the heartache of losing fish and the pain staking process of removing fish to QT.
It is mentioned plenty in the link provided above You cannot perform this in a regular reef tank, fish can handle it but many other organisms will die from this low salinity. Read up and be careful.


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Old 08/31/2011, 03:23 PM   #19
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At a local fish store they just received a new shipment of UV purifying systems. 50 bucks for a system that will work for a 50-80 gallon aquarium. The larger systems are also reasonably priced. They are good for killing bacteria and parasites. Ill get some more info on the manufacture and pictures of the product if anyone is interested.


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Old 09/01/2011, 01:41 AM   #20
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a properly sized and set up UV sterilizer will control ich and perhaps prevent an explosion of population. however, it does not cure ich simply because not all of the water passes through UV. ich also spends little time in the water column.


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Old 09/01/2011, 12:18 PM   #21
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I don't like doing fresh water dips I had the longest ICH problem with my blue hippo tang she got ICH all the time all I did was let it be and her immune system and feeding her really well helped her defeat it she is now 4 years old and I have not seen ICH in my tank for years. You could use mella green it works and is reef safe you could also buy some cleaner shrimp that works to. Anyways I got a quick question I'm getting a baby dwarf lion fish I'd like some impute on that

False! Cleaner Shrimp do absolutely NOTHING for ICH, and anything that is "Reef Safe" for treating ICH, is a waste of your money and time. QUARANTINE QUARANTINE QUARANTINE!!!!!!!!


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Old 09/01/2011, 05:02 PM   #22
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Some people will never learn. cleaner shrimp and mella green will do nothing for Ich.

Given that many fish with Ich show no sign at all, I do wonder about the QT process and the way people think it is %100 successful. The Ich is pretty hard to see when on the gills.
If it wasn't for the tell tale fish such as surgeons and blennies, the Ich can go largely unnoticed even after QT.

Peroxide dips are another option that is still being tested. The fish can handle the peroxide although the peroxide is not reefsafe.


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Old 09/02/2011, 08:11 AM   #23
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Some people will never learn. cleaner shrimp and mella green will do nothing for Ich.

Given that many fish with Ich show no sign at all, I do wonder about the QT process and the way people think it is %100 successful. The Ich is pretty hard to see when on the gills.
If it wasn't for the tell tale fish such as surgeons and blennies, the Ich can go largely unnoticed even after QT.

Peroxide dips are another option that is still being tested. The fish can handle the peroxide although the peroxide is not reefsafe.

How long do you QT? I keep all my fish for 8 weeks MINIMUM in a QT. If there are signs of stress, usually the symptoms will occur. I do freshwater dips, as well as HYPO if needed... I had an ICH breakout in my 180... I'll never go through that BS again!!!


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Old 09/02/2011, 12:44 PM   #24
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No new additions for some time now apart from rock and corals. No QT as I feel the stress from the QT is often a killer.
Please don't take this the wrong way and think I'm advocating a no QT policy. Quarantine works if done correctly. I just feel that it's beyond the means of many aquarists.

The point I'm trying to make is about people thinking that sticking a fish, in a tank by itself, will show signs of ich if infected. How do you know unless you stress the fish out to a point where the fish is covered?
Take a cutting from the gills and view it under a microscope?
"Back to the lab Batman".


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Old 09/02/2011, 03:05 PM   #25
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No new additions for some time now apart from rock and corals. No QT as I feel the stress from the QT is often a killer.
Please don't take this the wrong way and think I'm advocating a no QT policy. Quarantine works if done correctly. I just feel that it's beyond the means of many aquarists.

The point I'm trying to make is about people thinking that sticking a fish, in a tank by itself, will show signs of ich if infected. How do you know unless you stress the fish out to a point where the fish is covered?
Take a cutting from the gills and view it under a microscope?
"Back to the lab Batman".
I made the mistake of not QT' my Hippo tang, and the transportation process obviously stressed the hell outta him. Soon after he developed ich. My QT water and my DT water are the same in every way. If theres a problem after transport in the QT, big deal, its isolated. Praying your fish dont get a disease, and if for some reason they do in your tank, how do you treat? it's impossible to treat in your DT tank! you just let your fish go about their business?


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