Reef Central Online Community

Home Forum Here you can view your subscribed threads, work with private messages and edit your profile and preferences View New Posts View Today's Posts

Find other members Frequently Asked Questions Search Reefkeeping ...an online magazine for marine aquarists Support our sponsors and mention Reef Central

Go Back   Reef Central Online Community > General Interest Forums > Reef Discussion
Register Blogs FAQ Calendar Mark Forums Read

Notices

Reply
Thread Tools
Old 09/02/2011, 03:19 PM   #26
snorvich
Team RC member
 
snorvich's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Outlander
Posts: 41,248
Blog Entries: 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by Musbtr1pin View Post
False! Cleaner Shrimp do absolutely NOTHING for ICH, and anything that is "Reef Safe" for treating ICH, is a waste of your money and time. QUARANTINE QUARANTINE QUARANTINE!!!!!!!!
Cleaner shrimp or cleaner wrasses provide no value for parasite control (ich or others). Quarantine for sure.


__________________
Warmest regards,
~Steve~
snorvich is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09/02/2011, 05:08 PM   #27
Rosscopeco
Registered Member
 
Rosscopeco's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Sydney
Posts: 231
Quote:
Originally Posted by Musbtr1pin View Post
I made the mistake of not QT' my Hippo tang, and the transportation process obviously stressed the hell outta him. Soon after he developed ich. My QT water and my DT water are the same in every way. If theres a problem after transport in the QT, big deal, its isolated. Praying your fish dont get a disease, and if for some reason they do in your tank, how do you treat? it's impossible to treat in your DT tank! you just let your fish go about their business?
To answer your question. Yes, I just let my fish go about their business.

Again, I'm not telling anyone they should not quarantine.

My point is that there are gaps in many of the quarantine procedures.
How do you know that your Hippo tang didn't catch Ich from your DT?
How do you know that any fish is disease free after 8 weeks in quarantine?


__________________
From a land down under.....
Rosscopeco is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09/08/2011, 09:48 PM   #28
marc nichols
Premium Member
 
marc nichols's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Sierra Nevada foothills,USA
Posts: 673
% years ago when I acquired Hot Lips, our powder brown tang, she came with ick. I removed all but one fish from the display and did the quarantine thing for double the required time. In the mean time I tried to catch/kill starve the holdout with no success. So, back went Hot Lips and the other inmates. Back came the ick.

So, did the holistic thing with vitamins, garlic and the best feed plan I could devise. That worked! In 5 years, have not lost a fish or seen any sign of ick.


__________________
95 gal sps dominant reef system.

Current Tank Info: 95gal. SPS reef system
marc nichols is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09/12/2011, 01:05 PM   #29
T Diddy
Slayer of Mice
 
T Diddy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Augusta, Ga
Posts: 1,346
Quote:
Originally Posted by snorvich View Post
A fresh water dip is useful (although not curative) for oodinium. It has no effect on cryptocaryon irritans.
Quote:
Originally Posted by chessnutt View Post
Freshwater dip does nothing but to stress it more. Give it plenty of hiding space. I got an Achilles three weeks ago and it had ich. Less stress fast recovery. Avoid sticking your hands in the tank. I dont quarantine. I just feed them more often. Seems like any new fish I add to the tank it will have ich but the other fish shows no signs of ich. Cleaner shrimp also helps.
A fresh water dip most certainly does help to keep a fish alive for longer than not doing so. I have done this experiment, and the control group ended up dead...

Dips won't cure the disease, but it does treat the symptoms.


__________________
America's best are not in America.

Current Tank Info: 140 Gallon DSA in-wall, foam/rock wall, DIY LED, 40g sump, Precision Marine Skimmer, 100 gallon refugium, NO3, PO4,NH3/4 undetectable, Mg, Ca, KH...eeehhhhhh?
T Diddy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09/12/2011, 04:21 PM   #30
snorvich
Team RC member
 
snorvich's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Outlander
Posts: 41,248
Blog Entries: 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by T Diddy View Post
A fresh water dip most certainly does help to keep a fish alive for longer than not doing so. .
Sorry, that simply is not true. There is a difference in how deep the parasites embed with cryptocaryon irritans compared to oodinium which embeds much shallower.


__________________
Warmest regards,
~Steve~
snorvich is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09/12/2011, 04:27 PM   #31
T Diddy
Slayer of Mice
 
T Diddy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Augusta, Ga
Posts: 1,346
Thanks snorvich, but I'm not referring to oodynium. You are correct in that fresh water dips will not affect deeply embedded "ich". Fresh water will cause osmotic shock and lysis of the protists not within the submucosal layer of the host, potentially (and matter of factly) extending the life of the host. As I said, I've done this experiment.


__________________
America's best are not in America.

Current Tank Info: 140 Gallon DSA in-wall, foam/rock wall, DIY LED, 40g sump, Precision Marine Skimmer, 100 gallon refugium, NO3, PO4,NH3/4 undetectable, Mg, Ca, KH...eeehhhhhh?
T Diddy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10/06/2011, 08:32 PM   #32
battousai622
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: West LA
Posts: 69
Thanks. This article was very helpful.


battousai622 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10/13/2011, 02:46 AM   #33
ryanuuy
Registered Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 203
I dont think my display has any ich as well. I had a major outbreak so caught every single fish there and put them all through a 2 month QT and when i added them back, no more problems. I treated the QT with quinine sulfate in conjunction with hypo.

This is my question though! I wanna add a few coral frags to my tank from my friends tank. His tank im sure has ich and by extension im sure his water is carryng the parasite. Right now i have 4 zoa frags that are in my coral QT(fishless), how long do you think i should wait before i add them to the main? Should it really be the whole 1-2 month period?

Thanks!


ryanuuy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10/25/2011, 02:43 PM   #34
montrosereef
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 14
spent lots of money on fish medication, none really works. prevention is important. I does garlic extreme when i see my fish flips around the object. It works very well.


montrosereef is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11/13/2011, 01:02 AM   #35
3rdimension
Registered Member.
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 249
Quote:
Originally Posted by mess7777 View Post
It is mentioned plenty in the link provided above You cannot perform this in a regular reef tank, fish can handle it but many other organisms will die from this low salinity. Read up and be careful.
What if you have a FOWArtificialReef tank like mine? No live rock, all rock, plants, reef are artificial. Then I'd assume it would be ok to do this in a desperate scenario and didn't have a QT setup. I really see the importance of having a QT even with a setup like mine, so you don't have to put other fish through unnecessary stress with hypo-salinity. But if worse came to worse, I believe it would be the better solution than transferring them over to a smaller QT stressing them out even more in smaller confinement. Even if the ich shows predominantly present in just one or two of the fish, and just those fish are placed in the QT, ich will still be thriving in the main tank in the sand and then host on any fish left in the main tank. Therefore, I feel the more humane and easier treatment for my FOWAR tank is to use the hypo-salinity method. It sounds like the best solution especially with a fully stocked tank.


3rdimension is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11/27/2011, 12:02 PM   #36
sandcounty
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Madison, WI
Posts: 1
So here's a stupid question.

What exactly are cleaner shrimp and wrasses cleaning at their stations?

I've been told parasites in addition to stuck food bits, dead flesh, etc.

No?


sandcounty is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11/27/2011, 02:00 PM   #37
Paul B
Premium Member
 
Paul B's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Long Island NY
Posts: 15,564
Quote:
What exactly are cleaner shrimp and wrasses cleaning at their stations?
Paracites that are much larger than ich and dead skin. Even if a shrimp ate a few paracites, there are tens of thousands of them so the shrimp will be ineffective.
Shrimp and cleaner fish are totally useless at curing ich but if you like cheaner shrimp and fish, then buy them. I have them in my tank because I like them but I know they will do nothing for ich.
You can quarantine or not quarantine, that is up to you but your fish should be in a state of health where they are not bothered by ich.
Fish in a new system wil never be in great health no mater what they look like so in those systems it is better to quarantine. As the system ages, after a few years the fish should be in breeding condition and they will not succumb from ich.
I personally have not had a quarantine or hospital tank in probably 25 years and I have no problems from ich or anything else. I buy fish from all different places and even collect some myself along with seawater, seaweeeds and rocks.
The key is food and stress.
If you don't believe any of that, then quarantine everything. You will need to.


__________________
I used to get shocked when I put my hand in my tank. Then the electric eel went dead.

Current Tank Info: 100 gal reef set up in 1971
Paul B is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01/09/2012, 03:17 PM   #38
madasmick
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: brisbane australia
Posts: 14
The good old ich/white spot debate
Im by no stretch of the imagination a expert on this but have run in to the ich problem a few times and spent many hours researching how to get rid of it if your tank is like mine catching fish is no easy task and you only get to catch a fish when its very unwell form what iv found through research and talking to many people is that you can never get rid of it completely some fish are more prone then others and yes the old debate that only stressed of unwell fish will get ich or white spot i have noted myself in my tank that it seems only if the power has gone out for some time or something has gone wrong with a pump chiller heater and stressed fish or adding a new fish do i ever get ich i now have a backup generator if the power goes out and whenever i get any new fish i ask the shop to dose with stress guard and i no longer float fish but put them in a bucket and use a air line to siphon tank water to the bucket and then add stress guard also the bucket seems to not stress out a new fish as much as floating the bag in your tank fish donít normally swim at the top of the water as this is where something will eat it and in a bag your new fish can see the tank and other fish and canít get to the tank i have used medic by polyp lab seems the only treatment that is 100% reef safe but needs dosing every 12 hours also UV and ozone will help to control it before it attaches to your fish if anyone out there has more experience or success in treating or getting rid of the ich/white spot let me know


madasmick is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01/09/2012, 10:25 PM   #39
Fat Man
Registered Member
 
Fat Man's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Way out yonder where the west commences
Posts: 559
mad as mick, I can't read that without punctuation. It makes my brain hurt.


__________________
peace
Stay ignorant. Kafudafish PhD 2012
Every time you squirt some of that delicious sauce on your food, just remember, that's pure California baby. Mikey da Banker 2013

Current Tank Info: Dusty
Fat Man is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01/10/2012, 12:27 PM   #40
returnofsid
Registered Member
 
returnofsid's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Spokane, WA
Posts: 3,906
Quote:
Originally Posted by madasmick View Post
The good old ich/white spot debate
Im by no stretch of the imagination a expert on this but have run in to the ich problem a few times and spent many hours researching how to get rid of it if your tank is like mine catching fish is no easy task and you only get to catch a fish when its very unwell form what iv found through research and talking to many people is that you can never get rid of it completely some fish are more prone then others and yes the old debate that only stressed of unwell fish will get ich or white spot i have noted myself in my tank that it seems only if the power has gone out for some time or something has gone wrong with a pump chiller heater and stressed fish or adding a new fish do i ever get ich i now have a backup generator if the power goes out and whenever i get any new fish i ask the shop to dose with stress guard and i no longer float fish but put them in a bucket and use a air line to siphon tank water to the bucket and then add stress guard also the bucket seems to not stress out a new fish as much as floating the bag in your tank fish donít normally swim at the top of the water as this is where something will eat it and in a bag your new fish can see the tank and other fish and canít get to the tank i have used medic by polyp lab seems the only treatment that is 100% reef safe but needs dosing every 12 hours also UV and ozone will help to control it before it attaches to your fish if anyone out there has more experience or success in treating or getting rid of the ich/white spot let me know


BWAAAAA!?

I know your Shift Key works, because you actually capitalized UV. Your lack of punctuation, sentence structure, etc. makes your post completely unreadable.


returnofsid is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01/10/2012, 07:01 PM   #41
antbreon
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: port stlucie fla
Posts: 187
way to welcome a newbie on board...he may have a slight language barrier as well ..he is form Australia


antbreon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01/10/2012, 09:45 PM   #42
T Diddy
Slayer of Mice
 
T Diddy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Augusta, Ga
Posts: 1,346
Quote:
Originally Posted by ludiNano View Post
This only works for Canadian's.



__________________
America's best are not in America.

Current Tank Info: 140 Gallon DSA in-wall, foam/rock wall, DIY LED, 40g sump, Precision Marine Skimmer, 100 gallon refugium, NO3, PO4,NH3/4 undetectable, Mg, Ca, KH...eeehhhhhh?
T Diddy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01/11/2012, 03:17 PM   #43
madasmick
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: brisbane australia
Posts: 14
My lack of punctuation may have made it hard to read.
Considering I had just finished a 39 hour shift of work its lucky the whole thing wasn’t a jumbled mass of words.


madasmick is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01/24/2012, 12:04 AM   #44
jrdonnellyjr
Registered Member.
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fat Man View Post
mad as mick, I can't read that without punctuation. It makes my brain hurt.
Quote:
Originally Posted by returnofsid View Post
BWAAAAA!?

I know your Shift Key works, because you actually capitalized UV. Your lack of punctuation, sentence structure, etc. makes your post completely unreadable.
nit pit mfers.


jrdonnellyjr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01/24/2012, 05:57 AM   #45
Paul B
Premium Member
 
Paul B's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Long Island NY
Posts: 15,564
Quote:
My lack of punctuation may have made it hard to read.
Considering I had just finished a 39 hour shift of work its lucky the whole thing wasnít a jumbled mass of words.
I had no problem reading it, I just stayed up for 39 hours watching re runs of Seinfield before I read it. Seemed fine to me.


__________________
I used to get shocked when I put my hand in my tank. Then the electric eel went dead.

Current Tank Info: 100 gal reef set up in 1971
Paul B is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01/29/2012, 10:29 PM   #46
IridescentLily
Editor-Reefkeeping mag
 
IridescentLily's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Albuquerque, New Mexico
Posts: 3,867
Blog Entries: 5
Because i'm obessive compulsive, anal retentive, an editor, and a nerd...
Quote:
Originally Posted by madasmick View Post
The good old ich/white spot debate.
I'm by no stretch of the imagination an expert on this but have run in to (into) the ich problem a few times, and have spent many hours researching how to get rid of it. If your tank is like mine, catching fish is no easy task and you only get to catch a fish when it's very unwell.
From what i've found through research, and talking to many people, is that you can never get rid of it (ich) completely. Some fish are more prone then others, and yes the old debate that only stressed or unwell fish will get ich or white spot...
I have noted myself, in my tank that it seems only if the power has gone out for some time or some other mechanical failure has occured, and the fish are already stressed out, i do expect ich.
I now have a backup generator, if the power goes out.
Additonally, whenever i get any new fish i ask the shop to dose with 'stress guard'. Also, i no longer float fish in their bag in the tank but instead put them in a bucket and use an air line to siphon tank water to the bucket, then i add stress guard into the bucket.
The bucket seems to not stress out a new fish as much as floating the bag in your tank.
Fish
don’t normally swim at the top of the water as this is where something might eat it. In a bag your new fish can see the tank and other fish, yet can’t get to (hide) the tank. i
I have used 'medic' by polyp lab because it seems to be the only treatment that is 100% reef safe, but it does require dosing every 12 hours. Also UV and ozone will help to control it (ich) before it attaches to your fish. If anyone out there has more experience or success in treating or getting rid of the ich/white spot please let me know



__________________
~April
Editor-Reefkeeping Magazine

Last edited by IridescentLily; 01/29/2012 at 10:34 PM.
IridescentLily is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01/30/2012, 02:34 AM   #47
Rosscopeco
Registered Member
 
Rosscopeco's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Sydney
Posts: 231
Top work Iridescentlily.
Being someone who spent more time and effort trying it on with girls ( including a brief forced stint of drama class with Rose Byrne during high school, whom I'm sure you all know is quite hot), instead of paying attention in english classes, I can completeley understand where Madasmick is coming from. Many of us actually had to get jobs to pay the rent and put food on the table around the same time we figured out we needed further education. You can guess which one wins out of the two.
It doesn't make you stupid, just ignorant. Ignorance is easily fixed.
The fact that he's a bannana bender is irreperable.
(Purely mucking around madasmick. please don't take offence as it's not intended).

Getting back to the ich!
Most of the time when people think they've beaten ich with good diet, impecable water and less stress in the tank, it's usually down to built up immunity, or a lack of visible symptoms. There are many studies and subsequent papers written on these different aspects of the parasite.
The studies go something like this. Good conditions ( for the fish), promote a natural immunity. Adding a new fish with ich( even if it's just one on the gills) will begin the whole immunity battle again.
Most fish do not show visible symptoms of infection. Not unless you take a gill cutting and observe it under the microscope.
Nurse. Get me a scalpel, STAT.
Ever notice how the fish with smooth skin are ich magnets? That's to do with the available area for the parasite to burrow in. Scales are much better at stopping ich for obvious reasons.
If you keep ich out of your tank in the first place it will be impossible for it to spontaneously appear.
My problem with this is that the QT proccess does not always guarantee success.
IMO dipping ( or continuous medication) is entirely necessary to for the QT method to be 99.99%. There is plenty of info out there on what will kill ich for certain but, unfortunately, many of these treatments seriously hurt the fish.
I have experimented with the hydrogen peroxide dips and found them to be extremely effective at removing even deeply embedded cysts. No gill cuttings here but the obvious guess is if the deep craters are sorted, the gills are pristine. That and the fact that the fish showed immediate improvement and minor discomfort throughout the treatment.
Copper is out in my books.
At the end of the day I choose not to quarantine because I dont' like the current treatments available and my tank is working towards four years and two incarnations. Ich is in there and it aint coming out unless I start again or find a suitable dipping proceedure.

PS.Please feel free to edit my puntuation or spelling. Proper english of course.
Also feel free to dissagree with my opinion and let me know why. It is a disscussion board after all.


__________________
From a land down under.....
Rosscopeco is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02/02/2012, 07:06 PM   #48
mmmm4life
Registered Member
 
mmmm4life's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Montana
Posts: 76
Tank info for new guy

Hey all new to the coral tank world for myself. Brother has been doing it for years and has it down but I have a question for anyone able to answer. I have only had my tank up and going for about a month or so, and have extremely well cured live rock that was intrduced to my tank but have what seems to me green coralline algea growth but its very rapidly growing along with the purple. I just want to know if there is a possible bad green item that this could be. I have been useing B-Ionic chem. daily and have heard that this stuff may make the coralline algea growth be this rapid. Any input is good input. Thanks


mmmm4life is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02/03/2012, 02:15 AM   #49
Rosscopeco
Registered Member
 
Rosscopeco's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Sydney
Posts: 231
G'day Mate.
This is a thread on Ich. Probably not the best place to ask the question but I'll try anyway to save you some time. I hope no one else minds the sidetrack.
The green covering is cyano bacteria or" blue green algae" of the matting variety and is quite ok. Do a search for more detailed info.
It's a sign of the cycle taking place in your tank.
The cyano will out compete almost anything when it comes to nutrients in the water or rock, although over time (with low nutrient levels) the coralline will become the pest.
Welcome to the hobby.


__________________
From a land down under.....
Rosscopeco is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02/17/2012, 11:59 AM   #50
Michael cicco
Registered Member.
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: buffalo ny
Posts: 60
most of the time if you do simple water changes it should help the problem


Michael cicco is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Curing "old/dead" Live Rock anthonydel Reef Discussion 12 01/26/2017 06:25 PM
Live rock taking forever to cure flighttime42 New to the Hobby 8 02/24/2011 03:37 PM
Does curing live rock really need a heater? flighttime42 New to the Hobby 5 02/03/2011 03:11 PM
Marine ich: A disscution of... part 1 question virginiadiver69 Steven Pro 4 08/20/2007 07:18 PM
Black ich: inverts, blennies, and formalin Hal Fish Disease Treatment 3 03/08/2006 11:34 PM


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 07:04 AM.


TapaTalk Enabled

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Powered by Searchlight © 2017 Axivo Inc.
Use of this web site is subject to the terms and conditions described in the user agreement.
Reef CentralTM Reef Central, LLC. Copyright ©1999-2014