Reef Central Online Community

Home Forum Here you can view your subscribed threads, work with private messages and edit your profile and preferences View New Posts View Today's Posts

Find other members Frequently Asked Questions Search Reefkeeping ...an online magazine for marine aquarists Support our sponsors and mention Reef Central

Go Back   Reef Central Online Community > General Interest Forums > Advanced Topics
Register Blogs FAQ Calendar Mark Forums Read

Notices

Reply
Thread Tools
Old 08/20/2011, 12:10 AM   #51
flyhigh123
funky member
 
flyhigh123's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Hacienda Heights (605 and 60 fwy)
Posts: 1,884
The fuge that my ats empties into has a space that is 20 x 12. Should I make a 6" dsb under the ats?


flyhigh123 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08/20/2011, 06:38 AM   #52
slow_leak
Premium Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: North Carolina
Posts: 569
Blog Entries: 4
I would use live rock instead.


slow_leak is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08/24/2011, 02:56 AM   #53
flyhigh123
funky member
 
flyhigh123's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Hacienda Heights (605 and 60 fwy)
Posts: 1,884
Quote:
Originally Posted by slow_leak View Post
I would use live rock instead.
I have the other half of fuge with rock


flyhigh123 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08/25/2011, 01:19 PM   #54
JohnnyB in SD
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 264
There should be no need to take up nitrates when you have a properly setup & running ATS. What would be the purpose of using a DSB under an ATS?


JohnnyB in SD is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09/11/2011, 09:12 AM   #55
Thatgrimguy
Registered Member
 
Thatgrimguy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Gulfport, MS
Posts: 377
Dosing iron to supplement scrubber growth... When is this necessary and how do you go about it?


Thatgrimguy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09/11/2011, 09:41 AM   #56
salty joe
Registered Member
 
salty joe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: medina, ohio
Posts: 2,371
First, you might want to see where you are and go from there.

http://www.marinedepot.com/ps_search...20kit&parsed=1


__________________
Time to roll the dice.
salty joe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09/11/2011, 10:05 AM   #57
Thatgrimguy
Registered Member
 
Thatgrimguy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Gulfport, MS
Posts: 377
Quote:
Originally Posted by salty joe View Post
First, you might want to see where you are and go from there.

http://www.marinedepot.com/ps_search...20kit&parsed=1
Well. I guess I should have phrased that better. What levels are acceptable? Do they differ from a system not running a scrubber? What are the actual benefits and disadvantages? What is used to dose iron (is there a specific brand I should be looking for?)


Thatgrimguy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09/11/2011, 10:07 AM   #58
srusso
Registered Member
 
srusso's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Bridgeport, CT
Posts: 1,866
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thatgrimguy View Post
Dosing iron to supplement scrubber growth... When is this necessary and how do you go about it?
As of right now, I am on the third week of test dosing iron. I got a tip on a DIY iron source from normal iron supplements from CVS store brand. Take a pill and let it soften in RODI. Stir well once the pill is completely soft. Allow to settle, 20 mins or so. Dose green liquid and leave fillers at the bottom of the cup. I am doing it once a week. when you does it will cloud the tank water.

I used one pill the first week, saw little change in color of growth. Clouded my 70 gallon for about an hour or more.

I used two pills the second week, saw a generally greener healthier growth by the third and fourth day. It clouded the water for about three hours. No I'll effects noticed and fish or SPS, LPS, Softies, anemones or inverts.

This week (yesterday) I used 3 pills. The growth of the screen is that of a day older. Greener healthier looking growth. Clouded the tank for about 6 hours, corals seemed to love the dose as polyps where fully extended.

Again fish and others seem normal.

This is still something I am testing so do at your own risk. I am using the color and health of the algae harvest as my indicators for more or less dosing. At the moment I am dosing the solution all at once but I may start drip dosing.


__________________
70 Gallon Oceanic | Coral Reef | Apex Controller | Algae Scrubber |Started 8/14/2010
General Interest Forums > Advanced Topics > Algae Scrubber Basics Thread
Basics Write Up - Post #1 | Quick Troubleshooting - Post #1902 | Alternate/Updated Sizing - Post #2723 | Latest Summary - Post #3251 - #3264

Last edited by srusso; 09/11/2011 at 10:21 AM.
srusso is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09/11/2011, 11:20 AM   #59
Thatgrimguy
Registered Member
 
Thatgrimguy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Gulfport, MS
Posts: 377
Quote:
Originally Posted by srusso View Post
As of right now, I am on the third week of test dosing iron. I got a tip on a DIY iron source from normal iron supplements from CVS store brand. Take a pill and let it soften in RODI. Stir well once the pill is completely soft. Allow to settle, 20 mins or so. Dose green liquid and leave fillers at the bottom of the cup. I am doing it once a week. when you does it will cloud the tank water.

I used one pill the first week, saw little change in color of growth. Clouded my 70 gallon for about an hour or more.

I used two pills the second week, saw a generally greener healthier growth by the third and fourth day. It clouded the water for about three hours. No I'll effects noticed and fish or SPS, LPS, Softies, anemones or inverts.

This week (yesterday) I used 3 pills. The growth of the screen is that of a day older. Greener healthier looking growth. Clouded the tank for about 6 hours, corals seemed to love the dose as polyps where fully extended.

Again fish and others seem normal.

This is still something I am testing so do at your own risk. I am using the color and health of the algae harvest as my indicators for more or less dosing. At the moment I am dosing the solution all at once but I may start drip dosing.
Do you have a thread where you are documenting the experiment? I would love to see your results.


Thatgrimguy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09/11/2011, 01:19 PM   #60
redneckgearhead
Registered Member
 
redneckgearhead's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Tulsa
Posts: 507
Me too!


__________________
Scott

75 gallon soon to be 90 gallon reef

55 gallon FOWLR
Life aint goin as planned? Look to the two things you can change...YOUR perspective and YOUR actions!

Current Tank Info: 75g reef
redneckgearhead is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09/11/2011, 01:34 PM   #61
salty joe
Registered Member
 
salty joe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: medina, ohio
Posts: 2,371
http://www.seafriends.org.nz/oceano/...tm#composition

According to this link, NSW has an iron concentration of 0.0034 ppm. I'd be leery of greatly elevating anything from NSW levels. I'd never dose anything that would not be measured, just my opinion.


__________________
Time to roll the dice.
salty joe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09/11/2011, 06:12 PM   #62
linx
Registered Member
 
linx's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Iceland
Posts: 52
I've been skipping through this thread and it's been nice to see how much info is being collected, but how do you measure iron in your seawater?


linx is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09/11/2011, 07:27 PM   #63
srusso
Registered Member
 
srusso's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Bridgeport, CT
Posts: 1,866
Quote:
Originally Posted by linx View Post
I've been skipping through this thread and it's been nice to see how much info is being collected, but how do you measure iron in your seawater?
I am going by the color of my algae ATM. I think they do have iron tests though... Fe+


__________________
70 Gallon Oceanic | Coral Reef | Apex Controller | Algae Scrubber |Started 8/14/2010
General Interest Forums > Advanced Topics > Algae Scrubber Basics Thread
Basics Write Up - Post #1 | Quick Troubleshooting - Post #1902 | Alternate/Updated Sizing - Post #2723 | Latest Summary - Post #3251 - #3264
srusso is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09/11/2011, 07:40 PM   #64
srusso
Registered Member
 
srusso's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Bridgeport, CT
Posts: 1,866
As I said I would get around to picking through the basics thread for topics to discuss here.

Algae Scrubbing used on an industrial level. These systems are proven to remove some nasty stuff from farm run off.

Quote:
Originally Posted by srusso View Post
If people haven't seen a water treatment facility

This image is from http://www.algalturfscrubber.com/

Also here is a quote from the algal turf scrubber site...

"...the ATS algal product can also be converted to paper and construction materials and can be used to sequester carbon and heavy metals as well as break-down toxic hydrocarbons. ATS-produced algae can be converted to energy products such as biodiesel, gasohol and methane."



__________________
70 Gallon Oceanic | Coral Reef | Apex Controller | Algae Scrubber |Started 8/14/2010
General Interest Forums > Advanced Topics > Algae Scrubber Basics Thread
Basics Write Up - Post #1 | Quick Troubleshooting - Post #1902 | Alternate/Updated Sizing - Post #2723 | Latest Summary - Post #3251 - #3264
srusso is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09/11/2011, 07:50 PM   #65
srusso
Registered Member
 
srusso's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Bridgeport, CT
Posts: 1,866
Quote:
Originally Posted by srusso View Post
Please watch this inspiring video I watched that was the nail in the coffin for me when I was on the fence about building a scrubber.

The related video


__________________
70 Gallon Oceanic | Coral Reef | Apex Controller | Algae Scrubber |Started 8/14/2010
General Interest Forums > Advanced Topics > Algae Scrubber Basics Thread
Basics Write Up - Post #1 | Quick Troubleshooting - Post #1902 | Alternate/Updated Sizing - Post #2723 | Latest Summary - Post #3251 - #3264
srusso is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09/11/2011, 07:57 PM   #66
srusso
Registered Member
 
srusso's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Bridgeport, CT
Posts: 1,866
Quote:
Originally Posted by srusso View Post
http://www.chesapeake.org/stac/agcon...ols/kangas.pdf

This is a great 28 page presentation, read through it. Its brief and helpful in understanding how ATS systems are used in large scale applications.

Lots of pictures too...



__________________
70 Gallon Oceanic | Coral Reef | Apex Controller | Algae Scrubber |Started 8/14/2010
General Interest Forums > Advanced Topics > Algae Scrubber Basics Thread
Basics Write Up - Post #1 | Quick Troubleshooting - Post #1902 | Alternate/Updated Sizing - Post #2723 | Latest Summary - Post #3251 - #3264
srusso is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09/11/2011, 08:08 PM   #67
srusso
Registered Member
 
srusso's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Bridgeport, CT
Posts: 1,866
Quote:
Originally Posted by srusso View Post
http://www.physicsegypt.org/epc08/epc823.pdf

Another great document, short only 10 pages. It was written by Walter Adey, Phd, Jeffrey Bannon, MESM and Longenecker and Associate.

My favorite quotes and highlights

"it is important to note that this is a modular system, capable of expanding to any size."

I don't think they realized how small we would take it...

"A 2005 independent study of ATS, by the South Florida Water Management District and the IFAS Institute of the University of Florida, certified ATS as 5-100 times more cost efficient at removing nutrients from Everglades canal waters than the next competitor, the STA, a managed marsh system."


a marsh looks a lot like a refuge doesn't it?

"ATS and STA were the final contestants in a 15-year study of nine technologies, and ATS was the only technology that created a usable byproduct."

We are green both literately and figuratively!

"ATS removes heavy metals, break down toxic hydrocarbons, and oxygenates treated waters."

...but we already knew that...

"Depending upon season and temperature, the resulting algal turf must be harvested every 5-15 days to maintain high levels of productivity."


I have reason to believe that my system may benefit from a 5 day cleaning cycle. I will soon began testing this theory. I notice the algae on day 6 and 7 darken considerably. Yet on day 5 it is bright green in color.



__________________
70 Gallon Oceanic | Coral Reef | Apex Controller | Algae Scrubber |Started 8/14/2010
General Interest Forums > Advanced Topics > Algae Scrubber Basics Thread
Basics Write Up - Post #1 | Quick Troubleshooting - Post #1902 | Alternate/Updated Sizing - Post #2723 | Latest Summary - Post #3251 - #3264
srusso is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09/11/2011, 08:10 PM   #68
srusso
Registered Member
 
srusso's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Bridgeport, CT
Posts: 1,866
Quote:
Originally Posted by srusso View Post
"The above information is supported by dozens of experimental studies and hundreds of years of operational time (i.e., multiple ATS over 25 years of operation). Moreover, ATS systems have received over 15 years of research and development testing followed by a ten-year history of pilot plant construction and operation for water quality control. This not only includes ATS systems for water treatment, but also for aquaculture."

Tested for quite some time now...

"As in most photosynthesis, algal turfs abundantly release oxygen; in ATS systems, oxygen is dissolved into the overflowing water. It is not unusual for water flowing off an ATS plant in the afternoon to be highly supersaturated."


"ATS systems are well known for their abilities to “scrub” nitrogen and phosphorus. Their lack of sensitivity to nutrient concentration, until extremely low levels are achieved, provides the ability to accomplish high water purity."

"It has been known for a half century that algal cell walls adsorb heavy metals, and it is a characteristic of ATS phytoremediation, that heavy metals are removed from treated waters and sequestered into the algal biomass. This is an added value of ATS water cleaning, especially in waters with an industrial or urban component."

"ATS systems with high oxygen supersaturation break down entrained hydrocarbons. There is an extensive general research literature on this process, and a single ATS research study in the late 1990’s demonstrated that when combined with artificial ultraviolet, ATS systems have considerable capability of breaking down a variety of chlorinated hydrocarbons."

Hey that's us! ^^^



__________________
70 Gallon Oceanic | Coral Reef | Apex Controller | Algae Scrubber |Started 8/14/2010
General Interest Forums > Advanced Topics > Algae Scrubber Basics Thread
Basics Write Up - Post #1 | Quick Troubleshooting - Post #1902 | Alternate/Updated Sizing - Post #2723 | Latest Summary - Post #3251 - #3264
srusso is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09/11/2011, 08:11 PM   #69
srusso
Registered Member
 
srusso's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Bridgeport, CT
Posts: 1,866
Quote:
Originally Posted by srusso View Post
Another very interesting video, not a direct ATS system, but more of a production line approach with an algae scrubber feel.




__________________
70 Gallon Oceanic | Coral Reef | Apex Controller | Algae Scrubber |Started 8/14/2010
General Interest Forums > Advanced Topics > Algae Scrubber Basics Thread
Basics Write Up - Post #1 | Quick Troubleshooting - Post #1902 | Alternate/Updated Sizing - Post #2723 | Latest Summary - Post #3251 - #3264
srusso is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09/12/2011, 10:39 AM   #70
Floyd R Turbo
Either busy or sleeping
 
Floyd R Turbo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: West Des Moines, IA
Posts: 4,111
Blog Entries: 15
Quote:
Originally Posted by salty joe View Post
http://www.seafriends.org.nz/oceano/...tm#composition

According to this link, NSW has an iron concentration of 0.0034 ppm. I'd be leery of greatly elevating anything from NSW levels. I'd never dose anything that would not be measured, just my opinion.
IIRC, is it very difficult to maintain any level of measurable iron in a reef system, but I can't recall why this is. It just absorbed into everything very quickly, so it's really hard to overdose. In fact, one person did an experiment to see exactly how much you could dose in one shot before it was detrimental to the system, and it turns out that about 1 gallon added to a 90 gallon system will do a lot of harm to your corals, but won't completely kill them.


__________________
Algae Scrubber Basics!!! GOOGLE "algaescrubber zoho"
General Interest Forums --> Advanced Topics --> Algae Scrubber Basics (sticky)
--> POSTS #3251-64 (Basics), #5206 (Cleaning), #6884 (LEDs), #729
Floyd R Turbo is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 09/12/2011, 07:48 PM   #71
Thatgrimguy
Registered Member
 
Thatgrimguy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Gulfport, MS
Posts: 377
Quote:
Originally Posted by Floyd R Turbo View Post
IIRC, is it very difficult to maintain any level of measurable iron in a reef system, but I can't recall why this is. It just absorbed into everything very quickly, so it's really hard to overdose. In fact, one person did an experiment to see exactly how much you could dose in one shot before it was detrimental to the system, and it turns out that about 1 gallon added to a 90 gallon system will do a lot of harm to your corals, but won't completely kill them.
Some of them did get jacked up pretty bad lol. I forgot about that experiment. I'm going to go search that out again. He has put that 90 gallon through some stuff in the name of science! Still looks great though. That eel he has is amazing.


Thatgrimguy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09/18/2011, 04:54 PM   #72
Trichome
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Cincinnati, Ohio
Posts: 199
Has anyone been able to find a affordable LED light source for your ATS? I am very interested in being able to use LED lighting mainly because of the energy savings. Also because i don't enjoy having to change out 8 CFL bulbs every 6 months to a year.



Last edited by Trichome; 09/18/2011 at 04:55 PM. Reason: Spelling error
Trichome is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09/20/2011, 09:24 AM   #73
Floyd R Turbo
Either busy or sleeping
 
Floyd R Turbo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: West Des Moines, IA
Posts: 4,111
Blog Entries: 15
right now the cheapest place I've seen is e-shine systems. But they only communicate via e-mail or chat through a translator and who knows the quality of the LEDs from taiwan/china. I know a few are being tried out right now. One other product was tried and it the fixture fried after a month or so because of moisture. Most 1W or 2W LED grow light fixtures have a fan to cool the PCB so you can't really use them in an open scrubber design, or even over an open sump where moisture gets drawn into the fixture. So the LED fixture route is really something that takes a little forethought.


__________________
Algae Scrubber Basics!!! GOOGLE "algaescrubber zoho"
General Interest Forums --> Advanced Topics --> Algae Scrubber Basics (sticky)
--> POSTS #3251-64 (Basics), #5206 (Cleaning), #6884 (LEDs), #729
Floyd R Turbo is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 09/20/2011, 06:20 PM   #74
elegance coral
They call me EC
 
elegance coral's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: central Florida
Posts: 6,212
Quote:
Originally Posted by Floyd R Turbo View Post
IIRC, is it very difficult to maintain any level of measurable iron in a reef system, but I can't recall why this is. It just absorbed into everything very quickly, so it's really hard to overdose. In fact, one person did an experiment to see exactly how much you could dose in one shot before it was detrimental to the system, and it turns out that about 1 gallon added to a 90 gallon system will do a lot of harm to your corals, but won't completely kill them.
One gallon at what concentration?


__________________
"Most of the failures with marine aquaria are due to lack of knowledge of the biological processes that occur in the aquarium." Martin A. Moe, Jr.
"A scientist seeks the truth, wherever that may lead. A believer already knows the truth, and cannot be swayed no matter how compelling the evidence."

Current Tank Info: I'm trying to see how many tanks will fit in my house before the wife loses it.
elegance coral is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09/20/2011, 07:33 PM   #75
Floyd R Turbo
Either busy or sleeping
 
Floyd R Turbo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: West Des Moines, IA
Posts: 4,111
Blog Entries: 15
I think it was actually 1/2 gallon of Kent Iron/Manganese


__________________
Algae Scrubber Basics!!! GOOGLE "algaescrubber zoho"
General Interest Forums --> Advanced Topics --> Algae Scrubber Basics (sticky)
--> POSTS #3251-64 (Basics), #5206 (Cleaning), #6884 (LEDs), #729
Floyd R Turbo is online now   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
algae scrubber/heavy metals charles matthews Randy Holmes-Farley 6 11/03/2016 09:32 PM
xenia scrubber instead of algae scrubber? dolt SPS Keepers 40 04/07/2011 12:34 PM
Try again: Is anybody running an algae scrubber as primary filter. Frick-n-Frags Reef Discussion 166 08/03/2008 04:58 PM


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 03:15 PM.


TapaTalk Enabled

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Powered by Searchlight © 2017 Axivo Inc.
Use of this web site is subject to the terms and conditions described in the user agreement.
Reef CentralTM Reef Central, LLC. Copyright 1999-2014