pico reef pest algae problem challenge

[brandon429]

There has been lots of times where people covered their palythoa/zoantharia in fresh 3% with no side effects, however the common practice by far across threads is to dilute the new bottle of peroxide with 50% fresh saltwater, so you dunk them in a 50/50 solution and apply that using a dropper right on the target. the small amount of side contact hasn't killed any palythoa/zoanthids on any peroxide thread out of the 5 we have linked here. Some even dip the whole frag in that 50/50! but I prefer just applying it to the target

make sure you take before and after pics thats what people really care about and thank you !!
B

[aka_lal]

Hi guys,

I have a 50 gallons reef with 90% SPS and I've been battling velonia algae and red turf algae for almost 1 year.

I have tried everything to reduce nutrients and nothing worked, so I decided to search for "alternative" methods.

All your reports about the use of peroxide made me want to try, so decided to go slowly and started first with some frag plugs, then with one small rock and then finally with all the rocks.
The method used in the first place was to take rocks out of water and spot treat with pure 3% solution (around the corals), leave it bubbling for 10 minutes and return the rocks back to the aquarium.

In a matter of 5 days every algae was white and my turbos all over it. After 15 days the rock was completely naked of both algae.No coral losses

The only thing that I did not treat was the turbo shells which became a mistake, because as they roam the rock eating the old dead algae were seeding with new one from the shells. 2 months passed and I've start to notice new spots growing
This may be a problem since if any spore remains in the water, sooner or later will spread again...

Before starting a new spot treatment I decided to try dosing the peroxide directly to the water in a rate from 1ml/gallons to 2ml/gallons with no side effect the fish/corals or effect to the new spots.Don't think that dosing to the water will ever do harm to algae in these small doses.

What I saw (and I really can't prove that was from the peroxide) was, since the moment that I dosed peroxide, a fast improve in the coralline algae growth and specially in SPS colors. Can anyone explain that? Could it be from the peroxide?

[Napi Napoli]

Ok 24hrs later on my test rock 50/50 3% @ 7 min

BEFORE
ImageUploadedByTapatalk1336009001.700980.jpg

AFTER
ImageUploadedByTapatalk1336009027.908501.jpg


Do you think I should treat it again or buy some 35%H202 ??

I would still love to know why I have this crap in my tank. I treat my tank like it's my baby. Weekly water changes,P04X4
NP biopellets!!!!

[NaClH2O Getaway]

checking in with a few quick parameters in case anyone is interested cal is low @ 320, Mg is 1350, PO4 is zero as is NO3. that blows the phosphate Nitrate theory out. good news is the neo are looking weaker today. whats the plan for a full tank treatment Brandon? I'd like to keep as much water (possibly running) so I can insure I get all of the spores that are mentioned whenever reading up on these things. can I just put in a couple bottles of 35% and let in run for 5-10 folowed with a couple solid waterchanges back to back??

[brandon429]

Napi how about spot applying 3% right to it with no 50 50 dilution? Either you have stronger than normal algae or a 1.5 % dilution takes a little longer. This is a nice test run in that we do nothing to your tank until we get a small scale response.



The best info I can relay is that when a new bottle is spot applied to green algae, even as a one minute application, much less 7 mins, there is marked or total death of it in 24 hours on these threads. A couple times on the nr thread we racked our brains for days wondering why a green hair algae patch wouldn't succumb only to find out the doser wasn't using a new bottle...he thought one opened a year ago would suffice. Is your peroxide new 3%, as in you just bought the bottle this week? if so then keep that same test rock and hit it undiluted. If no results by friday, giving it an extra day as well, we'll press on some other way.


Nacl I can't recommend the 35% systemic in good faith yet it seems too fast. I want for you the results dr techno posted. Comparing to drtechnos spot treatment which yielded complete melting/disappear in a short time, how does your test area look now? I presume it may not have changed much and you are itching for a faster kill... Another question, can you spot treat another area with a rock you can lift out, id like to have a larger test area vs that one stalk we saw turning white previously although I thought that looked like a good sign

Nacl the feeling I get from your tank is to watch negative biomass progress even if its painfully slow...i'm sure any extra dosing will speed it up but my gut says let it progress as is, its not accruing mass now its reversing. Id really like to wait a little longer but you keep spot treating what you can daily. If at any point you want to do a full tank dose I must recommend the 1 to 2mls per ten gallons, its what we know to be safe. If you can get by with any form of direct application, even if its a submerged spot treatment, I say go for that if the next few days spot tests aren't quick enough

I'm doing all this as swipe texting on a Droid I have right thumb itis now lol guess I asked for it heh

[brandon429]

Aka lal nice to meet you thanks for posting!!

Two points came to mind from your thread

1 or 2 mls per gallon is ten times or better the recommended dosage, did you mean per ten gallons?

Red brush algae comes up in my tank twice a year or so even though i'm off the chain on peroxide dosing...i'm wondering if over the course of a year your tank held such biomass that it will just take a few dedicated rounds to get it under control

I truly do not know how coralline would be boosted from its use, we usually see the opposite.

[NaClH2O Getaway]

Thanx Brandon.

I know I'm getting antsy I've dealt with this so long. I guess you're right and in the name of science I will take a little longer. Here's my issues, the rock i dipped the other day was a removable item with about 10 stalks on it. Its one of the very few rocks not epoxied to the rock-scape. The center piece is actually a single 30 lb branch that I wouldn't have a container to dip it into anyhow. Second, because these things are individual and with space in between them its hard to "spot treat" because there are literealy 10's of thousands and I'd have to soak each one individually. Unlike GHA where you can pour some on the mat and it will retain it for some time while it soaks in, the neo don't retain the h2o2 for any period and the runoff will not spread to other strands. When I thought about running a full tank treatment I was considering 35% diluted to be equivalent to a 50/50 3% solution. To have that ratio with standard 3% I'd have to buy a lot (50 gal). In a 100 gal true water volume I figured just under 4 gal @35% since equal parts will have roughly 12x the concentration of its 3% counter part. A couple 75% WC back to back would bring the majority of the peroxide back out with the remainder to evap like an open bottle does in addition to skimming and GFO.

[brandon429]

Ok that helps a lot I see what you mean now

Doesn't this make you sick

http://www.nano-reef.com/forums/inde...owtopic=301388

I wish we could just lift your whole structure out and dip it in a bowl!!

Back to reality though consider this brainstorm before we take action

Spray/mist application, a mist adheres much better than a drop

Is there any possible way for you to drain the tank, and mist the Neo, let sit for a minute then refill?

Just racking options before we systemically kick your neo in the balls

[brandon429]

If you went through that much trouble I wouldn't spray 3% id rock n roll much stronger...lol the nuke option at least a hefty custom 20ish

It still won't cause a recycle and in that I find it preferable to bleach...peroxide is a tamer nuke.

[NaClH2O Getaway]

It does make me sick. People that have this stuff know the nightmare. people that don't say " it looks cool" or " it's a macro I wish I could grow it" truth is it does look cool until it completely overgrows everything in your tank and thats all you see. a little known fact, it doesn't take in phosphate and nutrients like macro. Mostly just calcium. (ok my rant is over hahahahahahaha)

I do like your idea though. I wondered if a mist or spray would work to. Next issue, where is the good stuff. I hit a pool place today and the guy looked at me like I was off my rocker. I looked online for 35% but I'd have to have it shipped, pay hazmat charge etc. any outlets I should look into first?

[brandon429]

Personally id like to know if i'm allowed to mail it or not as well we need a shipper to chime in someone here is a shipper or married to one its a statistical certainty

But here's how I found it

Locate a store that specializes in an inventory of assorted powders, extracts and unregulated vitamin supplements with pictures of fit people prominently displayed. they sell it for 20 bucks a quart

like so many other nefarious substances, part of the sale is that you can bathe in it. They give you dilution cupfuls for a bath right on the bottle


Its also marked as a food cleaner, laundry agent and mouthwash right on the 35% label and dilution is covered but i'm still surprised how accessible is this bubbly that warped my Formica in pics a few pages ago

35% is mean, snarly, I want to burn through your latex glove anyway fun fluid and health food stores are the hidden source.

[brandon429]

not nationwide ones like GNC the mom and pop health food stores, I googled "health food store lubbock" and found it on like the second call.


Napi for sure 35% or lesser diluted would burn it but Ive never seen anything but new 3% required for any reef invader except tough microalgae on the glass thats really bad. that took 35%, Im stumped a little as to why you didn't get faster dieoff even from a half dose. If we keep pressing we'll find the cause, the success rate is very high for peroxide if pics are the currency...

[Napi Napoli]

Ok, I just took my test piece and dipped half of it in a 100% H202 for 2min.

Let's see what happens!!

[brandon429]

Nice! I can't wait to find something that yields results then we'll press hard on upscaling that to the rest of the tank

We are working on reversing a years worth of algal biomass that progressed unchecked, im not worried about a slower start because once we find the 'mode' your tank needs previous peroxide pics say it will start to revert back to clean

Your peroxide was brand new, unopened and had the seal on it before you dosed the 50 50 right?

Last nite I was thinking of ways that large tank owners can concentrate peroxide onto targets while keeping the tank full and not removing rocks, still need help brainstorming but just kicking around ideas...

Imagine taking a large square of Saran wrap plastic and submerging/conforming it to the rock surface over a particularly gnarly patch of algae anchored to the rock...pumps off so it won't be ripped away. You can use sewing pins around the perimeter to lock it into place pretty well...so it would be a little tarped area on your rock over a 1'x1' target area, harmless so far.

Then you take a fairly generous syringe + needle, maybe a 20 gauge or so, and inject whatever dilution of peroxide right through the tarp where for a brief time the solution is concentrated over the target. It will leak out slowly and disperse into the tank but this is an easy concentration tactic worth considering, seems like its not a lot of work compared to tank disassembly

since a full 7 minute 50 50 didn't work for you i'm not sure how this would work, but for the vast majority of other tanks showing results off diluted 3% it might be a nice concentrator

Nacl I wonder how that would work for you in a test area now that we are preparing for tankwide dosing

The area under the plastic and surrounding the target will hold a better concentration of peroxide longer that we'd see just dosing the tank or even the submerged spot dose approach

[aka_lal]

Hi Brandon,

You're right, I'm dosing from 5 ml to 10 ml per 50 gallons.

And what you mean that you get turf algae twice a year? Î really want to eradicate the thing from my tank. Hate it!!!

[brandon429]

Maybe that explains some of your recurring problem, mine is never truly eradicated

But it went from wrecking my tank, uncontrollable by any means, into totally submissive such that a little pops up every few mos and I kill it with one drop during a drained water change. Considering the power of this algae I think this is wonderful!

I'm not sure it can be eradicated. But it is now super easy to kill

[rk_tek]

I have the tank on NR that Brandon just linked. I have been battling neomeris for a long time and am thankful that this solution is working. For the big tank owners or those with giant - I am wondering if there is a way to gel h2o2 so it could be applied to the affected areas. I'm not a science guy, leave that to the rest of the family, but could 35% peroxide be mixed with pure gelatin or ultrasound gel? I don't know the effect this would have on a reef tank. Gelatin is just protein chains. It might give your skimmer a workout.
*this is just an idea, don't start dumping gelatin in your tank yet

[brandon429]

I think that's a great idea-what about a partially frozen slurry, can you even freeze peroxide and retain the o2 must ask Randy...would have to find a binder that's negatively buoyant but it would be neat if you could submerge inject a heavy fluid that would linger with pumps off...

[Napi Napoli]

Ok 72hrs later on a 50/50 on the whole rock and 24 hrs later on the lower half the rock with a 100%H202

The H202 was new but could it of been old at the store???

What next

ImageUploadedByTapatalk1336153906.975260.jpg

[brandon429]

Guess so, when I look at all the linked threads no pictures of mixed green algae communities show resistance to even diluted 3%, something isn't right...well, do you have access to 35%?

[Napi Napoli]

I was going to order some off of Ebay. Is 35% safe for fish

[Napi Napoli]

I just figured out that Hydroponics shops sell it but it's on 29%

[brandon429]

It can be diluted safe back to any percentage, be sure not to ever touch it or get in any eye those stronger mixes are dangerous but that is cool you have access

Try to test and post back i'm curious

If your tank won't respond to a dilution treatment 1-3% I would not treat with any inhabitant in the tank

We have to consider it nuclear now in my opinion...I sure wish we could find 3% that works so your tank could be cleaned with little work but something isn't lining up. There's no way it could survive 20+% but now id look into nuclear remove everything to a holding tank and treat the rock and tank water with a powerful dose.

as the thread progresses more tanks will appear with dense, low profile algae growth that will help to look for details in why your rock won't respond...

There is no requirement to consider peroxide either, online threads show lots of nuclear cleaning/redoing options

If we had to give up on peroxide it would be neat if you would mail me a sample rock with some of it for me to culture and test. Id write up a new/separate thread to analyze the first green algae noted as peroxide resistant

[Napi Napoli]

Just bought this. New test to followImageUploadedByTapatalk1336164946.133514.jpg

[brandon429]

That's bad! Has to work can't wait to see