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Old 10/31/2011, 05:33 AM   #1
tegee
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VorTech MP10's or Tunze NanoStream 6095

I am trying to configure my powerhead needs for a new 60gl build that I just got up and running over the weekend.

I have owned Tunze for many years, prior to install MP60's in my 180gl SPS tank, and was very happy with them. The only thing I did not like about the Tunze, that I love about the Vortech's, is the controllability.

Now my issue. Should I go back to running Tunze's? Their new 6095 looks pretty slick and offer more gph; roughly 2600gph vs. 1500 with the MP10. Will I miss the controllability of the EcoTech? Will (2) MP10's be enough for a medium stock mixed reef 60gl Cube?

Any insight would be GREATLY appreciate. This is a pretty important purchase and/or configuration for my new Cube; which I am excited about.


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180-gl. SPS Miracles Tank 60" x 24" x 29". Lighting is Old School...(3) 250w MH Radiums using M80 ballasts w/ VHO Actinics (2) EcoTech MP60's, 75-gl. Sump, Kalk Reactor, MRC CalRx, Hurricone Skimmer
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Old 10/31/2011, 05:58 AM   #2
E.intheC
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Is the 60 a standard 24inch cube? If so, I don't think mp10s will be wide enough honestly. They're good pumps, but IMO and experience, they're best suited for a 20 gallon long or 30 gallon shaped tank. For a wide(ish) cube, wider flow will be better. You'll get a lot of posts from mp10 fanatics, but I think you'll be better served by the tunzes here. I'm looking at a 6095 for my new build as well. An MP40 is another option, however.
As for controllability-- if you have a multicontroller you get a number of different options that will be sufficient for corals. You can also use a third party controller and that wil increase your options.


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Old 10/31/2011, 06:28 AM   #3
tegee
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Thanks for the insight Eric. Yes, it is a standard 24" x 24" x 24" cube. That is what I am nervous about, the MP10 will not give me enough broad flow.

How about an MP20? I know there is a couple still out there for sale....is that an option?

The bummer is...I just sold my Tunze 7095 controller...go figure:-).

Do you have any experience with the 6095? The thing I like about the Tunze is you can rotate the direction of flow. I am really nervous about moving sand around. I went with CaribSea's Reef Sand and it is much finer then their SeaFlor Sand.

Many thanks again...


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Old 10/31/2011, 09:31 AM   #4
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2 MP10s is plenty for a 60 gallon cube. I own a Tunze and Vortech and won't be spending any more money on Tunze. The "directional" control is all just hype.

I use my MP10 on a Nano Cube that is roughly 18x18 and get flow everywhere in the tank.

Yes, you will miss the controllability factor. I was actually looking at starting a 60 gallon cube a few weeks ago and Ecotech recommended 2 - MP10s for the setup. They put out almost an 18" wide flow once you get out to about 24" or so. 2 of them will do everything you ever need on that size tank.


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Old 10/31/2011, 09:36 AM   #5
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I have a 65g and am looking at getting two MP10s and running them in push and pull movement, with possibly a Koralia 425 in the back lower running constantly. My other option was to get 3 Sicces and hook them up to my Reef Keeper Lite.


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Old 10/31/2011, 10:22 AM   #6
tegee
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Quote:
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2 MP10s is plenty for a 60 gallon cube. I own a Tunze and Vortech and won't be spending any more money on Tunze. The "directional" control is all just hype.

I use my MP10 on a Nano Cube that is roughly 18x18 and get flow everywhere in the tank.

Yes, you will miss the controllability factor. I was actually looking at starting a 60 gallon cube a few weeks ago and Ecotech recommended 2 - MP10s for the setup. They put out almost an 18" wide flow once you get out to about 24" or so. 2 of them will do everything you ever need on that size tank.

Thanks Ryan.... good information all around.

I have no experience with MP20's, but I do know that there are a few floating around that I may be able to purchase. Is that an option?

And I agree, after doing some homework Tunze simply does not blow my skit up. I really like the company and everything that it has to offer, but I really like the programming and controllability of EcoTech IMHO.

Many thanks again to everyone's input.....keep them coming.


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Old 10/31/2011, 10:23 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cassell19 View Post
I have a 65g and am looking at getting two MP10s and running them in push and pull movement, with possibly a Koralia 425 in the back lower running constantly. My other option was to get 3 Sicces and hook them up to my Reef Keeper Lite.
I'm getting 2 MP10s for my 75. I was planning on pulling my Koralia out completely. Wouldn't it disrupt the wave flow that the Vortechs are trying to create?


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Old 10/31/2011, 12:07 PM   #8
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I think you'll be well suited to get the MP10's unless you think you may want to get the MP20's and later upgrade them to MP40's. At least it would be an option.

Also keep in mind that unless I'm mistaken there has been a lot of "Attention" on how Tunze was getting their flow rates and how when a 3rd party did the real testing their #'s were significantly less than rated. I think this has been addressed and Tunze is making design changes but fact of the matter is that their posted #'s weren't realistic in our tanks.

If you want to really punch up the COOLNESS add in a GHL ProfiLux controller and really Pimp Out that cube


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Old 10/31/2011, 12:11 PM   #9
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I am in the same boat. I have used both the Tunze and Vortech. In my 60G build I am going with MP20. Down the line if I break down this tank or going in another direction, I can always upgrade the MP20 to MP40.


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Old 10/31/2011, 06:55 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by BigAl2007 View Post
Also keep in mind that unless I'm mistaken there has been a lot of "Attention" on how Tunze was getting their flow rates and how when a 3rd party did the real testing their #'s were significantly less than rated. I think this has been addressed and Tunze is making design changes but fact of the matter is that their posted #'s weren't realistic in our tanks.
It's funny how practically no one complained about Tunze's flow rates before that study (funded by Ecotech, by the way..) came out. Don't get me wrong; I do like Vortechs, and have owned a number of them over the past few years. I would buy one again. They're good products. However, that study has been blown out of proportion, IMO....

To the OP, I've had 2x MP10s on the back wall of a similar sized tank (45 gallon cube.. 24x24x18 height) and the flow was tough to dial in correctly. In order to get sufficient flow in the middle of the tank, you'd have to turn the pumps up pretty high, which would make the sides have very high flow rates. You could put one on each side of the tank, but I really didn't like how that looked on a relatively narrow cube (24inches wide). If your overflow is in the corner, that's a different story.

All in all, both companies provide good flow, and you won't go wrong either way.


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Old 10/31/2011, 06:58 PM   #11
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well said eric!
corey


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Old 10/31/2011, 07:50 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigAl2007 View Post
Also keep in mind that unless I'm mistaken there has been a lot of "Attention" on how Tunze was getting their flow rates and how when a 3rd party did the real testing their #'s were significantly less than rated. I think this has been addressed and Tunze is making design changes but fact of the matter is that their posted #'s weren't realistic in our tanks.
Tunze has made design changes already to the 6105, they used a wider nozzle and jumped up the voltage. The nanostreams did not suffer the same problem. Also, just should be mentioned that the study was conducted by a 3rd party at a competitors(EcoTech) building with equipment donated by them.

I also agree with Eric, no one complained before the study. Put a number on the flow people were happy with and you had several people up in arms.


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Old 10/31/2011, 09:10 PM   #13
cassell19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jmg416 View Post
I'm getting 2 MP10s for my 75. I was planning on pulling my Koralia out completely. Wouldn't it disrupt the wave flow that the Vortechs are trying to create?
I'm not sure--it might depend on placement. If the mp10s are at mid-level and the 425 near the bottom (I could even run it on my RKL on random giving me a little more chaotic movement) I should be OK.


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Old 10/31/2011, 11:18 PM   #14
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vortech all the way. though tunze is a good pump too.


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Old 10/31/2011, 11:46 PM   #15
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I wouldn't use only MP10s on a 60g cube personally. I would want at least 1 MP40 in there. I use 2xMP40wES (running in sync at around 90% in NTM) on my standard 75g SPS tank and wouldn't want any less flow at all.


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Old 11/01/2011, 05:49 AM   #16
tegee
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I agree....I may try to grab the two MP20's that are still available. Ii am afraid that the MP10's will not be enough long term. Not to mention, I do not want to run any VorTech at 100% for the simple noise factor. My MP60's in my 180gl sps are at approx. 75% and it keeps the noise level lower.

I'll keep you posted as soon as I find that the 20's are still out there.


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Old 11/01/2011, 07:28 AM   #17
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get the vortech and while u r at it buy some earmuffs, LApolicegear has some earmuffs on sale. goodluck!


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Old 11/01/2011, 08:05 AM   #18
tegee
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get the vortech and while u r at it buy some earmuffs, LApolicegear has some earmuffs on sale. goodluck!
Hey great advice.....never heard that one before:-(.


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Old 11/01/2011, 08:14 AM   #19
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A recent study by Sanjay Joshi shows that the MP10 actually puts out about 2000 gph of flow while the Tunze advertised flow rates are often greatly exaggerated. Couple that with the vortechs controllability right out of the box and the winner is clear IMO. However, the vortechs can be loud on high settings.


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Old 11/01/2011, 08:15 AM   #20
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Personally, I'm not sold on hands down benefit of control ability when it comes to powerheads. As long as you have alternating flow, I think the livestock will be happy. I've seen some great looking successful tanks that didn't use a controllable powerhead, just an old fashioned pump combined with rock solid chemistry. Folks these days seem all wrapped up in the equipment rather then chemistry, which after all, is the No. 1 component of happy livestock.

My $0.02, pick whichever one you like better....and focus your brainpower and elbow grease on maintaining rock solid parameters as mother nature would do.


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Old 11/01/2011, 08:18 AM   #21
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Chris, very well said. I agree 100%.

Talking about noise.. I've found the MP20/40's to be less noisy than the mp10s. I think you're right on the money with the MP20s, provided they're not too used.


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Old 11/01/2011, 08:20 AM   #22
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It's funny how practically no one complained about Tunze's flow rates before that study (funded by Ecotech, by the way..) came out. Don't get me wrong; I do like Vortechs, and have owned a number of them over the past few years. I would buy one again. They're good products. However, that study has been blown out of proportion, IMO....

To the OP, I've had 2x MP10s on the back wall of a similar sized tank (45 gallon cube.. 24x24x18 height) and the flow was tough to dial in correctly. In order to get sufficient flow in the middle of the tank, you'd have to turn the pumps up pretty high, which would make the sides have very high flow rates. You could put one on each side of the tank, but I really didn't like how that looked on a relatively narrow cube (24inches wide). If your overflow is in the corner, that's a different story.

All in all, both companies provide good flow, and you won't go wrong either way.
Do you know how sick scientists are of hearing "where does the money come from?" A good scientist, which Sanjay is, does good science, period. The fact is that there is good data to support that the vortech mp10 puts out A LOT more flow than advertised and the Tunze's put out less flow than advertised, no more no less. Tunze has even copped to it and plans on changing their advertising. Another sign of them being a good company. Like you said though, both are high quality pumps.


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Old 11/01/2011, 08:54 AM   #23
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The fact is that there is good data to support that the vortech mp10 puts out A LOT more flow than advertised and the Tunze's put out less flow than advertised, no more no less. Tunze has even copped to it and plans on changing their advertising. Another sign of them being a good company. Like you said though, both are high quality pumps.
The 6105 has been corrected with a jump in voltage. The nanostreams do not suffer the inaccuracy that the larger pumps do. Tunze seems to be changing the pumps larger than the 6105, I believe the 6155 is replaceing the 6205.


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Old 11/01/2011, 09:10 AM   #24
tegee
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Chris, very well said. I agree 100%.

Talking about noise.. I've found the MP20/40's to be less noisy than the mp10s. I think you're right on the money with the MP20s, provided they're not too used.

Eric and others....all great advice.

I ended up getting two brand new MP20's for the cost of MP10's. I choosethe MP20's because they have a bigger (wider) wetside and will offer broader flow. I also wanted increased flow potential so I could run them at lower speeds to keep the noise level down. I felt with MP10's I would have to crank them up to run them at the flow I was looking at.

And I agree, I did not get all wrapped up in the newer ES version of the VorTech line. I felt that Reef Crest mode is all I am going to need and I do not sync my MP60's on my 180gl SPS and simply let them run randomly. So having the older blue box controller on the MP20 was not a hang for me.

Anyway....a bit winded, but everyone's input was greatly appreciate.

BTW: for the record, I really like Tunze pumps and Tunze as a company. They all have their place in the hobby/industry IMHO. Tunze will make good on their latest issues like they made good when they converted to the Stream pump over the older square pump. Roger gave me two pumps for free, 6105 and a 6205, when the older generation Tunze went bad. So Roger is topself and I like Tunze as a company. Just felt better go with a low footprint in a small cube like mine with a EcoTech.

HTH


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Old 11/01/2011, 10:00 AM   #25
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Eric and others....all great advice.

I ended up getting two brand new MP20's for the cost of MP10's. I choosethe MP20's because they have a bigger (wider) wetside and will offer broader flow. I also wanted increased flow potential so I could run them at lower speeds to keep the noise level down. I felt with MP10's I would have to crank them up to run them at the flow I was looking at.

And I agree, I did not get all wrapped up in the newer ES version of the VorTech line. I felt that Reef Crest mode is all I am going to need and I do not sync my MP60's on my 180gl SPS and simply let them run randomly. So having the older blue box controller on the MP20 was not a hang for me.

Anyway....a bit winded, but everyone's input was greatly appreciate.

BTW: for the record, I really like Tunze pumps and Tunze as a company. They all have their place in the hobby/industry IMHO. Tunze will make good on their latest issues like they made good when they converted to the Stream pump over the older square pump. Roger gave me two pumps for free, 6105 and a 6205, when the older generation Tunze went bad. So Roger is topself and I like Tunze as a company. Just felt better go with a low footprint in a small cube like mine with a EcoTech.

HTH

Good choice. If you ever feel like you need more (or want more flow options) it's only $100 per pump to upgrade those MP20s to MP40wES.


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