Cloudy tank

tramsden · 12/21/2011, 10:22 AM

Hi

I Filled my tank and sump with RO water ( about 550L ) then added Red sea pro salt on sunday and left it over night. At this moment I have a Tunze 6055 pump in tank and the Tunze ??.40 Silent as return. In the morning the water was clear and I was happy.
Yesterday I noticed that there was flaky deposits around the heaters in the sump ( 2 visitherm 300W )
3 days on from starting to put the salt mix in, and now the water is cloudy with fine powder deposit over everything.
I have 50 kgs of LR coming tomorrow , so I'm a bit anxious about it all.

SG=1.024 pH=8.18 Temp=24.4C

Please advise.
Tony

RedSea Aviad · 12/21/2011, 04:02 PM

Dear Tony,
I have a few questions, please read these tips:

Quote:

Originally Posted by RedSea Aviad

Some mixing tips(in addition to the manual):

Dry mix your salt (once for new buckets), by rolling the bucket on the floor for a few minutes, or pouring the dry salt from one bucket to another a few times.
It will prevent stratification of the salt- sometimes when a bucket of salt travels a lot, the shaking and vibrating causes the mix to separate according to grain size.
ALWAYS add salt to water, NEVER water to salt.
Mix at ambient temperature, and then bring the temp. up, if needed. Do not mix pre warmed water.
Use a strong pump to mix the salt- it requires a vigorous mixing, that won’t allow the salt to accumulate at the bottom, and keep it suspended.
Don’t dump the salt, sprinkle it around so it won’t sink to the bottom in a pile.
Usually it takes 10-15 min. to fully dissolve and clear, but for bigger batches and weaker pumps it can take up to 30 min.

*I highly recommend testing the salinity, every time before using the new water.

** After following the above, test NEW water parameters [Alk, Ca, Mg] and compare it to the declared values, at least when you get a new bucket.

***You should test newly made water (at least once a bucket) regardless of the brand of salt you’re using.

Enjoy Red Sea's new and improved Salt formulas.

All the Best,
Aviad

Can you tell me if this is the way you mixed your salt?
If not, what did you not do from the above?
I suspect it's Calcium Carbonate precipitant due to improper mixing.
It shouldn't be a problem, but to be on the safe side run Calcium and Alkalinity tests to see if anything is extremely low.

Keep me posted,
Aviad

tramsden · 12/21/2011, 04:21 PM

Hi
Firstly I didn't roll the tub.
The tank water was at room temperature, I used a little jug to scoop and scatter the salt into the tank, I used a tunze 6055 to mix. I calculated that I needed 20-21kg to achieve the desired value. So I put this in and after 1 hour measured SG. Over the next hour I add a little more to end with SG=1.024.
The heaters were turned on and tank & sump left to circulate.

I measured Alk 3 hours ago it was 13.1. Unfortunately I don't have ca or mg tests at mo.

Is it usual to have clear water 24-48 hours after mixing then for it to cloud up with suspension.

I have LR being delivered tomorrow and have no alternative but to put it in the tank. Do you foresee any problems there?

Thanks for advice

tramsden · 12/21/2011, 04:35 PM

Just weighed the remaining salt. I.8kg left so I actually used 20.2kgs. SG=1.024 at mo. I was thinking to have 1.026 so still have a little to add. The cloudiness stopped me. Should I just add more or wait until it clears? I guess the remnant salt contain missing some elements If the tub was not rolled for dry mixing.

RedSea Aviad · 12/21/2011, 04:39 PM

Hi,
You used most of the salt bucket, so no need to roll it.
Did the salt accumulate in the bottom?
Heat reduces the CaCO3(calcium carbonate) solubility, which can explain the residue on the heaters.
The flaks probably formed around the heaters as well and drifted off.
It shouldn’t affect the water parameters, as you can see the alkalinity is pretty high in place.
[it’s only some extra calcium that had settled]
You can stop the flow turn off the heaters, let it sink and siphon it, if you must.
I would just leave it as is.
You can put the live rock without a worry.
I’ll be happy to see the final result….
Happy holidays,
Aviad

tramsden · 12/24/2011, 03:16 PM

LR has been in 2 days now.
Water is virtually clear.
There are a lot of deposits around the heaters in the sump and the main tank has a fine layer of 'dust' on base. But I'm very happy now. I will syphon clean the sump soon and probably stir up the residue in display tank with a power head and filter it out via the sump.

Regards. Tony

NaH2Ofreak · 12/25/2011, 05:07 PM

I'm not sure what the issue is with the new formulation of Red Sea Coral Pro but it is sad that it causes such a mess since the original formula was so good. I have never used a salt before that made such a mess of the mixing container and left heavy deposits of calcium chloride all over the heaters and pumps.

Aviad always blames improper mixing but man....how can a salt be so touchy? Even when mixed according to Aviad's directions to a "t", it still leaves tons of residue. I think people should know about this before ordering this new formulation.

Dennis

RedSea Aviad · 12/26/2011, 07:05 PM

Dear Dennis,
The fact that Coral Pro provides the elevated levels of Foundation Elements required for accelerated growth, makes it “sensitive” (or “touchy”).
I was under the impression that after you used a stronger pump or a smaller container your problem was solved.

There is no reason to get any residue.
It can form, if the salinity overshoot locally, or if the equilibrium is shifted towards Calcium Carbonate.
All are associated with improper mixing.
It’s just a matter of chemical balance, no tricks or magic.

All the best,
Aviad

NaH2Ofreak · 12/27/2011, 07:25 AM

I always mix my salt in 20 gallon batches in a brute garbage can using rodi water, a mag 5 pump and a heater. I have mixed salt this way for a very long time (~11 years). Never had a problem. Since buying a bucket of RedSea Pro it has mixed cloudy everytime. After I lowered my amount to 10 gallons as you suggested that my pump may be undersized for mixing 20 gallons, I still got precipitate but the 10 gallon batch cleared enough for me to use. With the 20 gallon batch, the water never cleared enough for me to use.

I guess I would need a 1000gph to mix 20 gallons of the new formulated salt. Not sure. Just saying, the new stuff is definitely different. I like the old formula lots better. But as I said before and I will say it again...the new test kits sure are cool!

Dennis

12/21/2011, 10:22 AM	#1
tramsden Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Leeds UK Posts: 264	Cloudy tank Hi I Filled my tank and sump with RO water ( about 550L ) then added Red sea pro salt on sunday and left it over night. At this moment I have a Tunze 6055 pump in tank and the Tunze ??.40 Silent as return. In the morning the water was clear and I was happy. Yesterday I noticed that there was flaky deposits around the heaters in the sump ( 2 visitherm 300W ) 3 days on from starting to put the salt mix in, and now the water is cloudy with fine powder deposit over everything. I have 50 kgs of LR coming tomorrow , so I'm a bit anxious about it all. SG=1.024 pH=8.18 Temp=24.4C Please advise. Tony

12/21/2011, 04:39 PM	#5
RedSea Aviad RC Sponsor Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: U.S. Posts: 720	Hi, You used most of the salt bucket, so no need to roll it. Did the salt accumulate in the bottom? Heat reduces the CaCO3(calcium carbonate) solubility, which can explain the residue on the heaters. The flaks probably formed around the heaters as well and drifted off. It shouldn’t affect the water parameters, as you can see the alkalinity is pretty high in place. [it’s only some extra calcium that had settled] You can stop the flow turn off the heaters, let it sink and siphon it, if you must. I would just leave it as is. You can put the live rock without a worry. I’ll be happy to see the final result…. Happy holidays, Aviad __________________ ~ ~ Red-Sea ~ ~ For perfect results!

12/26/2011, 07:05 PM	#8
RedSea Aviad RC Sponsor Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: U.S. Posts: 720	Dear Dennis, The fact that Coral Pro provides the elevated levels of Foundation Elements required for accelerated growth, makes it “sensitive” (or “touchy”). I was under the impression that after you used a stronger pump or a smaller container your problem was solved. There is no reason to get any residue. It can form, if the salinity overshoot locally, or if the equilibrium is shifted towards Calcium Carbonate. All are associated with improper mixing. It’s just a matter of chemical balance, no tricks or magic. All the best, Aviad __________________ ~ ~ Red-Sea ~ ~ For perfect results!

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12/21/2011, 04:21 PM	#3
tramsden Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Leeds UK Posts: 264	Hi Firstly I didn't roll the tub. The tank water was at room temperature, I used a little jug to scoop and scatter the salt into the tank, I used a tunze 6055 to mix. I calculated that I needed 20-21kg to achieve the desired value. So I put this in and after 1 hour measured SG. Over the next hour I add a little more to end with SG=1.024. The heaters were turned on and tank & sump left to circulate. I measured Alk 3 hours ago it was 13.1. Unfortunately I don't have ca or mg tests at mo. Is it usual to have clear water 24-48 hours after mixing then for it to cloud up with suspension. I have LR being delivered tomorrow and have no alternative but to put it in the tank. Do you foresee any problems there? Thanks for advice

12/21/2011, 04:35 PM	#4
tramsden Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Leeds UK Posts: 264	Just weighed the remaining salt. I.8kg left so I actually used 20.2kgs. SG=1.024 at mo. I was thinking to have 1.026 so still have a little to add. The cloudiness stopped me. Should I just add more or wait until it clears? I guess the remnant salt contain missing some elements If the tub was not rolled for dry mixing.

12/24/2011, 03:16 PM	#6
tramsden Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Leeds UK Posts: 264	LR has been in 2 days now. Water is virtually clear. There are a lot of deposits around the heaters in the sump and the main tank has a fine layer of 'dust' on base. But I'm very happy now. I will syphon clean the sump soon and probably stir up the residue in display tank with a power head and filter it out via the sump. Regards. Tony

12/25/2011, 05:07 PM	#7
NaH2Ofreak Premium Member Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: Portland, OR Posts: 1,492	I'm not sure what the issue is with the new formulation of Red Sea Coral Pro but it is sad that it causes such a mess since the original formula was so good. I have never used a salt before that made such a mess of the mixing container and left heavy deposits of calcium chloride all over the heaters and pumps. Aviad always blames improper mixing but man....how can a salt be so touchy? Even when mixed according to Aviad's directions to a "t", it still leaves tons of residue. I think people should know about this before ordering this new formulation. Dennis

12/27/2011, 07:25 AM	#9
NaH2Ofreak Premium Member Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: Portland, OR Posts: 1,492	I always mix my salt in 20 gallon batches in a brute garbage can using rodi water, a mag 5 pump and a heater. I have mixed salt this way for a very long time (~11 years). Never had a problem. Since buying a bucket of RedSea Pro it has mixed cloudy everytime. After I lowered my amount to 10 gallons as you suggested that my pump may be undersized for mixing 20 gallons, I still got precipitate but the 10 gallon batch cleared enough for me to use. With the 20 gallon batch, the water never cleared enough for me to use. I guess I would need a 1000gph to mix 20 gallons of the new formulated salt. Not sure. Just saying, the new stuff is definitely different. I like the old formula lots better. But as I said before and I will say it again...the new test kits sure are cool! Dennis