What ppm of Phosphate do you have in your SPS tanks?

[sahin]

This is mainly aimed that those with good SPS colour; what ppm phosphate is your tank currently running and what are you using to measure the phosphate level?

[PHILYD1]

0.02ppm on red sea pro test kit

[v1...rotate]

0.01 - 0.03ppm using the old style (large blue) Hanna test kit

[sahin]

Thanks guys.Andrew, I am surprised that your phosphate runs as high as 0.03ppm (I take it that yours ranges from 0.01-0.03 depending on feeding etc)? With the colours you have I would have thought your tank was running much lower - like in the region of 0.006ppm for example, ie lower than 0.01ppm at most times. Do you see a difference in coral colour when your reading is at 0.01ppm compared to 0.03ppm? - I realise that the difference can be due to testing accuracy and user etc etc, but those things aside, do you notice a difference?Keep the numbers coming. Randy reccommends somewhere at or below 0.03ppm, and we are ever chasing really low numbers and I find it very interesting.If there are any full Zeovit system tanks, I would like to know what your usual phosphate level is as well please. Many thanks for providing the info.

[sahin]

I am sorry the text is bunched up together...scripts are disabled at work and it makes the text wrap together.

[Allmost]

in my Zeovit tank its always undetactable.

started at 0.07 PPM.

[Reefer1225]

Mine always reads 0 with my Hanna Ultra Low Phosphorous Checker. Is this too low? What I don't get is that I still get algae sometimes.

[urbaneks]

Sahin - I'm following along closely here as I've been chasing phosphates for what seems like ever. My tank always reads 0 with a Salifert Kit and ranges between .03 and .07 on the Hanna. My colors are improving for sure even through my phos readings on the Hanna have been stable at these values from the beginning. It seems to me that my color is more dependent on feeding of phyto and AA.

[v1...rotate]

Originally Posted by sahin

Thanks guys.Andrew, I am surprised that your phosphate runs as high as 0.03ppm (I take it that yours ranges from 0.01-0.03 depending on feeding etc)? With the colours you have I would have thought your tank was running much lower - like in the region of 0.006ppm for example, ie lower than 0.01ppm at most times. Do you see a difference in coral colour when your reading is at 0.01ppm compared to 0.03ppm? - I realise that the difference can be due to testing accuracy and user etc etc, but those things aside, do you notice a difference?Keep the numbers coming. Randy reccommends somewhere at or below 0.03ppm, and we are ever chasing really low numbers and I find it very interesting.If there are any full Zeovit system tanks, I would like to know what your usual phosphate level is as well please. Many thanks for providing the info.

Hi sahin,

From my understanding and experience having a very small amount of Po4 (lets say no more than 0.03ppm) is ok. I've also read Randy's articles and various others over time and tend to agree.

I use the Hanna HI 93713 Phosphate Low Range (no longer available). The instructions state that it is accurate +/-0.04ppm. So the exact amount is never 100% truly known.


However this is how I test for Po4:

I always rinse the syringe with tank water first, then fill the cuvet (test tube) to the 10ml line. I then place it into the unit for phase one which is 'zeroing' the sample. When that is complete, I remove the cuvet, always holding it with a paper towel and proceed to add one packet of HI 93713 reagent via a very small funnel. I mix it thoroughly until is it nearly dis-solved, tip it upside down a few times to remove any air bubble trapped on the side walls and then re-insert it in to unit.

I then select the timed count (READ TIMED) which takes 3mins and wait. The end result is then displayed. I take note, remove the cuvet and give it a swirl a few times then re-insert it to take a direct reading (READ DIRECT) which has no count down time. I repeat this twice and if I get the same result I go with that.

I have always understood that 0.00 - 0.03 is perfectly acceptable. There are many superb tanks out there (past/present) that have readings within that range so I guess I just accepted that as acceptable. I'm not aware of any other test kits that read lower but it seems Red Sea has one. I may get the Hanna Ultra Low Phosphorous Checker soon and compare readings.

Personally, I think the Salifert Po4 test kit are no good for salt water aquariums. I had it in my old RSM130 and it always indicated 0 (no colour) but once I cross checked it with my Hanna, the Po4 was 0.18. It simply does not have a low enough range.

And finally to your question about 'seeing any changes in colour'. For me... this is how I judge if things are on track. I look at corals daily. I find I get no colour change between (0.01 -0.03). 2 months ago when a fish died and decomposed in the tank... the Po4 jumped to 0.08ppm and I did notice slight darken of SPS tissue and dark patches on the sand bed. SImply counter-acted this by doing an extra water change mid week. Within 1.5 weeks the Po4 was down to 0.03.

Generally I test my Po4 once every 2 weeks (maybe longer) and just use visual signs (coral colour/polyp extension) as a guide. If something is suspect, I check.

Hope that answers your questions and gives you and others a better understanding on what I do. Below is an old picture of my test kit.



Cheers

[RynosReef]

A lot of my sps are still in he frag stage but color is good. I keep my po4 between 0.00 and 0.03 testing with the hanna low range meter. I usually do weekly water changes, biweekly if feeling lazy. But if my po4 gets over 0.03 I do a water change and check my gfo. With gfo, refugium, water changes, and moderate fish and feeding it usually stays in range

[sahin]

Originally Posted by Reefer1225

Mine always reads 0 with my Hanna Ultra Low Phosphorous Checker. Is this too low? What I don't get is that I still get algae sometimes.

Which reagent batch do you have? I have the Hanna ULR Phosphorus meter and even with Key Largo Rocks that I have acid washed and bleached and then cycled in my tank I still get a reading of between 1-6ppb phosphorus on the meter. Have a look at this thread: http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/sh....php?t=2068493

It appears there might be issues with certain batches. Your tank might just be at 0, but after a heavy feeding you should get a reading to be honest. - Unless you a using a bucketload of GFO etc?

Originally Posted by urbaneks

Sahin - I'm following along closely here as I've been chasing phosphates for what seems like ever. My tank always reads 0 with a Salifert Kit and ranges between .03 and .07 on the Hanna. My colors are improving for sure even through my phos readings on the Hanna have been stable at these values from the beginning. It seems to me that my color is more dependent on feeding of phyto and AA.

The Salifert Phosphate kit is probably only useful for those who run softie tanks.

I saw your thread yesterday and to me it looks like Randys reccomendation is probably good enough for SPS too. Hence why I want to get an idea of what the Zeovit guys generally run their tanks at.

Whatever the case may be, it is still an interesting subject and one that is worth getting an idea of because we have all these Pellets/high capacity GFO/Carbon dosing and other systems like Zeovit etc, and I just wanted a general overview of what levels of phosphate is present in those peoples tanks who have very good SPS coral colour.

Originally Posted by v1...rotate

Hi sahin,

From my understanding and experience having a very small amount of Po4 (lets say no more than 0.03ppm) is ok. I've also read Randy's articles and various others over time and tend to agree.

I use the Hanna HI 93713 Phosphate Low Range (no longer available). The instructions state that it is accurate +/-0.04ppm. So the exact amount is never 100% truly known.


However this is how I test for Po4:

I always rinse the syringe with tank water first, then fill the cuvet (test tube) to the 10ml line. I then place it into the unit for phase one which is 'zeroing' the sample. When that is complete, I remove the cuvet, always holding it with a paper towel and proceed to add one packet of HI 93713 reagent via a very small funnel. I mix it thoroughly until is it nearly dis-solved, tip it upside down a few times to remove any air bubble trapped on the side walls and then re-insert it in to unit.

I then select the timed count (READ TIMED) which takes 3mins and wait. The end result is then displayed. I take note, remove the cuvet and give it a swirl a few times then re-insert it to take a direct reading (READ DIRECT) which has no count down time. I repeat this twice and if I get the same result I go with that.

I have always understood that 0.00 - 0.03 is perfectly acceptable. There are many superb tanks out there (past/present) that have readings within that range so I guess I just accepted that as acceptable. I'm not aware of any other test kits that read lower but it seems Red Sea has one. I may get the Hanna Ultra Low Phosphorous Checker soon and compare readings.

Personally, I think the Salifert Po4 test kit are no good for salt water aquariums. I had it in my old RSM130 and it always indicated 0 (no colour) but once I cross checked it with my Hanna, the Po4 was 0.18. It simply does not have a low enough range.

And finally to your question about 'seeing any changes in colour'. For me... this is how I judge if things are on track. I look at corals daily. I find I get no colour change between (0.01 -0.03). 2 months ago when a fish died and decomposed in the tank... the Po4 jumped to 0.08ppm and I did notice slight darken of SPS tissue and dark patches on the sand bed. SImply counter-acted this by doing an extra water change mid week. Within 1.5 weeks the Po4 was down to 0.03.

Generally I test my Po4 once every 2 weeks (maybe longer) and just use visual signs (coral colour/polyp extension) as a guide. If something is suspect, I check.

Hope that answers your questions and gives you and others a better understanding on what I do. Below is an old picture of my test kit.



Cheers

Thanks for the extended detail about the process you use to obtaining a result. I actually do more or less what you do:

1. I always rinse the test vial with RO water to reduce buildup of deposits on the glass - rinsing with tap water which is high in Ca and then that drying up will leave some Ca and other things. So I rinse the test vial with 0TDS RODI water before putting away.

2. Once I have filled the test vial with the tank water I swirl it around whilst holding with a lint free tissue to remove oils and smudges as well as to remove release tiny air bubbles stuck on the inside glass surface - if any.

3. I create a crease and a funnel shape in the reagent packet so that most of the reagent gets into the tet vial.

4. I time with a STOPWATCH exactly from the moment I pour the reagent into the test vial to finally having the vial iside the meter and pressing the button to countdown a reading - this part I do the same more or less to the nearest seconds each time I do a test. Whilst doing this, I handle the vial with a tissue ensuring that before the vial goes in the that there are no air bubbles stuck to the inside of the vial.

5. Doing 4. above means that I get VERY consistent results each time.

Thanks for you general commentary too. I value your input.

Originally Posted by RynosReef

A lot of my sps are still in he frag stage but color is good. I keep my po4 between 0.00 and 0.03 testing with the hanna low range meter. I usually do weekly water changes, biweekly if feeling lazy. But if my po4 gets over 0.03 I do a water change and check my gfo. With gfo, refugium, water changes, and moderate fish and feeding it usually stays in range

Thanks, good to know. I suppose being frags they wont be at the best of their potential colour.

Please keep posting. Thanks.

[Reefer1225]

[QUOTE=sahin;19725140]Which reagent batch do you have? I have the Hanna ULR Phosphorus meter and even with Key Largo Rocks that I have acid washed and bleached and then cycled in my tank I still get a reading of between 1-6ppb phosphorus on the meter. Have a look at this thread: http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/sh....php?t=2068493

It appears there might be issues with certain batches. Your tank might just be at 0, but after a heavy feeding you should get a reading to be honest. - Unless you a using a bucketload of GFO etc?

I have the Hanna Instruments HI 736 Checker. How do I know what batch/Lot # have? Where do I look?

When I first started testing, I had readings ranging from 2-7 ppb for the first few times (packets that came with the checker). Then the next 10+ times (extra reagents I bought), it always read 0. I didn't change anything in the tank. I do run GFO, but haven't change it in months. I use the recommended amount in my reactor. Reading the threads you forwarded, I am thinking I may have a bad batch of reagents. I was always wondering how the hell am I getting a reading of 0 when I am seeing brown algae in my sand and live rock.

[BuckeyeTodd]

It took me forevor to get color turned around, and one thing I attribute it to is feeding heavier. I almost never test 0.00 on my hanna. It's usually .02-.09. I find there is a big spike after feeding frozen foods, so I only do that twice a week now(And I've started feeding pellets multiple times a day). The result is some fat fish, and a healthy tank. When I used to run GFO/Bio Pellets/etc to keep po4 at 0.00 I used to find the colors pale. After talking to Victor at WWC, he advised he keeps po4 under .05(If above he uses the Brightwell liquid product, never GFO) and he doesn't stress about nitrates and his usually run high. I still run GFO howevor, I'm not sure how he does it LOL.

And honestly, testing more often has helped a lot(And a Hanna Meter is critical to this, no stupid color charts). When I test at the low end I will add Amino Acids or feed some Rod's. When it's high, I stick to pellets for a couple days to bring it down. I try to aim for .05 as a median. I have nitrates at 10-25 and IMO nitrates don't have nearly the effect on color as po4.

[sahin]

Originally Posted by Reefer1225

I have the Hanna Instruments HI 736 Checker. How do I know what batch/Lot # have? Where do I look?

Look at the reagent pack. Reagents with lot number H006 have been confirmed as defective by Hanna. Check your reagent packet the lot number is printed on the little white lable.

I am not sure if there are other confirmed batch numbers.

[Reefer1225]

Originally Posted by sahin

Look at the reagent pack. Reagents with lot number H006 have been confirmed as defective by Hanna. Check your reagent packet the lot number is printed on the little white lable.

I am not sure if there are other confirmed batch numbers.

Well it appears that I have Lot No. H006. That explains it. Thanks for the heads up. Now, who to contact at Hanna?

[sahin]

Originally Posted by Reefer1225

Well it appears that I have Lot No. H006. That explains it. Thanks for the heads up. Now, who to contact at Hanna?

Look up Hanna USA or go to their US website and you will find their phone number. If you look at the Hanna forum, you will be might find their customer service number there.

[Reefer1225]

Thanks. Left voicemail to technical support and emailed them through their website. Hopefully they respond.

[sahin]

Come on people, join the discussion, let us know your thoughts as well as what phosphate you run in your tank and still have good colour.

Thanks.

[sahin]

Originally Posted by BuckeyeTodd

It took me forevor to get color turned around, and one thing I attribute it to is feeding heavier. I almost never test 0.00 on my hanna. It's usually .02-.09. I find there is a big spike after feeding frozen foods, so I only do that twice a week now(And I've started feeding pellets multiple times a day). The result is some fat fish, and a healthy tank. When I used to run GFO/Bio Pellets/etc to keep po4 at 0.00 I used to find the colors pale. After talking to Victor at WWC, he advised he keeps po4 under .05(If above he uses the Brightwell liquid product, never GFO) and he doesn't stress about nitrates and his usually run high. I still run GFO howevor, I'm not sure how he does it LOL.

And honestly, testing more often has helped a lot(And a Hanna Meter is critical to this, no stupid color charts). When I test at the low end I will add Amino Acids or feed some Rod's. When it's high, I stick to pellets for a couple days to bring it down. I try to aim for .05 as a median. I have nitrates at 10-25 and IMO nitrates don't have nearly the effect on color as po4.

Thank you for your input, really appreciate it. Your observation/opinion re the nitrates is similar to what I have been informed by a few knowledgeable UK reefkeepers. Many thanks!

[RynosReef]

It's worth mentioning i guess that ultimately there is no set method of po4 reduction that will work for everybody. Only the end result of keeping phosphates low matters because everyone has a difference system. Low fish load and feeding, gfo, refugiums, carbon dosing, zeofit, plus water changes are the typical methods I can think of. Some might need all of them at the same time.

I personally like to keep things simple. Mainly because I like to go on vacation whenever I possibly can! So I've tried the most natural ways I can first. Not feeding to much, rinsing frozen foods, getting rid of any sponge filters that collect waste, periodically blowing my live rock off and keeping sandbed clean, and using a refugium and big water changes. But for my system that's just not enough. I run my skimmer wet and run gfo. I've tried turning off the gfo but slowly but surely my po4 starts creeping up. I think I've got it dialed in now. I don't need carbon dosing personally. For one, it would just be too much work for me right now. I think that trying to maintain parameters and feed the corals through natural means (like fish poo) is going to be good long term over using too many gadgets or chemicals. But overall, it depends on your personal needs. And your attentiveness. I would like to try some of the other methods someday. Just to learn how they work from experience

[RynosReef]

double post

[damienkee]

0.02~0.05 when feeding frozen food.

[ReefMan Qc.]

0.02 ppm with Hanna Checker !

[karsseboom]

0.00 hanna meter...

[urbaneks]

Originally Posted by ReefMan Qc.

0.02 ppm with Hanna Checker !

Originally Posted by karsseboom

0.00 hanna meter...

What methods do you use to keep phos at these levels?