Coral Poachers caught, in Florida waters

[r-balljunkie]

thats a pitiful lot of corals they took. people do more damage setting anchors than what they took. to be honest, looks like a couple of hacks going at....i dont think profit was the motive...darwin is not on there side, when it comes to the gene pool.

[fishhead79]

Well it proven... Ignorance isn't bliss after all. Now is it?

[bighappybuddha]

You can maybe imagine the temptation of a father and son launching their own memory making expedition...but you gotta play by the rules especially within a threatened environment.

[ivans75]

I am not starting a political war here but i find it funny that u guys in the US are protecting your corals while buying stony corals from us. If you love to keep the environment why still buy a coral?

I must admit coral business is really bad for the environment and I am doing this business and when I started it, i never thought about the ecological impact, all I had in mind was just money and money.

Thousands of stony corals are being shipped to US, europe or any other part of the world from Indonesia while the country or the government itself has no idea on their sustainability. We are destroying our marine life due to coral demand in your country. By saying this it seems that I am stabing myself and my business but my point is that lets not become hypocrites and admit that we love to look and care for them. You guys are protecting your country's nature but lettng other destroying theirs by keep on buying these corals. I've seen hundreds of welsos, trachys in our collection point in Sulawesi and Bali. I've seen thousands of elegance corals being collected, stored and shipped without water. It's cruel business practice for them, no such thing as humane collecting. When u take them out from their natural area, you have done a damage. Period.

My other point is...discussion like this should not be far commented. What is the purpose of cursing the father and the son? Why cast the first stone while we are all guilty for the global environment???

[albano]

Originally Posted by fish042099

If you want coral, just buy it! Also, captive specimens are hardier.

do you mean captive raised?...otherwise, the vast majority of 'captive' coral for sale...was taken (legally or not) directly from the reef!

Originally Posted by aquamanco

It sickens me to think of all the other stuff from Carib that goes through ours doors here in SoFl. Not to "our" LFS but to the private collections worldwide!! Same goes for the Indo-Pac countries.

How many 'private collections' in SoFl contain only local (legally caught) 'stuff'?

Originally Posted by ivans75

I am not starting a political war here but i find it funny that u guys in the US are protecting your corals while buying stony corals from us. If you love to keep the environment why still buy a coral?

Why cast the first stone while we are all guilty for the global environment???

you have a valid point!...unfortunately, don't expect things to change.

[ivans75]

albano, no I don't expect anything. But the hypocrites attitude from some people toward this matter is bothering me lol.

Maybe I need to add that some of the corals that you have now in the US came from illegal poachers around the collection point. These people are usually traditional fishermen. They mainly dive for sea cucumbers, lobsters or any human consumption sea creatures and on the way they might find some nice corals they think they can make money from. When they get to the harbor, the local police check them up and when they get caught (no license) they can just pay them out and sell the illegally gathered corals to the exporters who dont really care whether or not they are legal collector. All they care is the coral quality. They wont reject a nice rare coral that can fetch good money for them. These are common practice, poachers are everywhere in this country. So open your eyes!

[dixiedog]

Originally Posted by Jmoney619

Stiffer penalties should be enacted

Stiffer than what?

[Squidmotron]

Meh. Didn't seem that bad to me. Ridiculous that they were even temporarily taken to jail.

I'll save my real ire from when Coral and Wilderness Pillaging, Inc. and their team of deadly and highly trained reef assassins steals 8 metric boatloads of rare coral and sells it to greedy jerks, most of whom I hope are not me. Father and son can pay the fine, realize it's cheaper to just buy coral from the store, and move on.

[SylvesterGraham]

Originally Posted by ivans75

You guys are protecting your country's nature but lettng other destroying theirs by keep on buying these corals.

Why cast the first stone while we are all guilty for the global environment???

I agree.

In less wealthy to impoverished countries that have hungry people and dysfunctional governments, simply asking people to stop plundering the environment for personal gain doesn't work, shockingly, even if they're aware that what they're doing is against their own long term interest! People everywhere will always take what they think they are entitled to to serve their own interests, unless a government is there to stop physically stop them.

Since buying coral is legal in the US, people will buy it because it is "pretty." Since harvesting coral is loosely enforced in pacific countries, people will keep harvesting it--even if that endangers their food supply. The only solutions are to severely criminalize harvesting in Pacific Rim countries or for western nations to ban imports.

There was a story a while back in the New Yorker about deforestation. Parts of Africa are so deforested that they can barely support life. People cut down the trees for fuel, mainly. Scientists and NGO's implored the people to stop cutting down trees. They explained everything in the clearest terms possible: if you cut down the trees, you will suffer. If you let the trees grow, you will prosper in ten years. People cut down the trees anyways. It wasn't until somehow whoever was in charge stopped delivering food to the villagers until they let the trees grow back. The people complied, the trees grew back, and things are much better now.

I have no doubts that the only solutions to global environmental problems are unfortunately quite brutal.

[slapshot]

Originally Posted by ivans75

I am not starting a political war here but i find it funny that u guys in the US are protecting your corals while buying stony corals from us. If you love to keep the environment why still buy a coral?

I must admit coral business is really bad for the environment and I am doing this business and when I started it, i never thought about the ecological impact, all I had in mind was just money and money.

Thousands of stony corals are being shipped to US, europe or any other part of the world from Indonesia while the country or the government itself has no idea on their sustainability. We are destroying our marine life due to coral demand in your country. By saying this it seems that I am stabing myself and my business but my point is that lets not become hypocrites and admit that we love to look and care for them. You guys are protecting your country's nature but lettng other destroying theirs by keep on buying these corals. I've seen hundreds of welsos, trachys in our collection point in Sulawesi and Bali. I've seen thousands of elegance corals being collected, stored and shipped without water. It's cruel business practice for them, no such thing as humane collecting. When u take them out from their natural area, you have done a damage. Period.

My other point is...discussion like this should not be far commented. What is the purpose of cursing the father and the son? Why cast the first stone while we are all guilty for the global environment???

The issue in the US is a large scale bleaching event has killed most of the stone corals.We are trying to get them to come back. They really only grow in a small part of our waters that is why they are under tough protections. Most other life remains collectable. The indo problem is two fold. Yes there is the poaching but the world has tried to police the best they can with Cities. The indo pacific also has its own responsibility to protect its waters from its own people.

There are also thousands that are benefiting from the mariculture industry. I agree that to buy what you know is smuggled is wrong but that is not what most do here. What you call hypocritical is more likely ignorance. The fix is to increase the mariculture industry then all can benefit.

Lastly, I could say the same thing about the indo people sailing all over the world illegally harvesting shark fins and other fish. Who is at fault the seller or the purchaser? Both it takes two to make a market. So don't call us hypocrites without looking in the mirror.

[Dog boy Dave]

I live in Florida. I watched the coral reefs that we used to be able to swim out to in Vero Beach get covered with sand on the Atlantic coast in the 90's. At the time, people were whining about collectors while the hotel owners and municiple governments covered acres of reef to make new beaches for the tourists. Collecting is illegal now but we still cover miles of our shore with fake beaches for the rich property owners who own most of the beach side property in this state now. We do it on both coasts and now we have allowed those same rich property owners (BP) to destroy our Gulf and ruin it as a healthy food sourse for the next two or three generations. Yet, while all of this goes on, we stand around, wring our hands and try to keep from getting too political while we demand stricter penalties for a couple of guys who stole a couple of bags full of rocks that we hadnt gotten around to covering up or killing. People, until we all get too political these kind of forums are nothing more than a bad joke. They are a distraction to keep people mad about stupid stuff so they dont wake up and see the real picture.

[albano]

Originally Posted by Dog boy Dave

I live in Florida. I watched the coral reefs that we used to be able to swim out to in Vero Beach get covered with sand on the Atlantic coast in the 90's. At the time, people were whining about collectors while the hotel owners and municiple governments covered acres of reef to make new beaches for the tourists. Collecting is illegal now but we still cover miles of our shore with fake beaches for the rich property owners who own most of the beach side property in this state now. We do it on both coasts and now we have allowed those same rich property owners (BP) to destroy our Gulf and ruin it as a healthy food sourse for the next two or three generations. Yet, while all of this goes on, we stand around, wring our hands and try to keep from getting too political while we demand stricter penalties for a couple of guys who stole a couple of bags full of rocks that we hadnt gotten around to covering up or killing. People, until we all get too political these kind of forums are nothing more than a bad joke. They are a distraction to keep people mad about stupid stuff so they dont wake up and see the real picture.

WHOAAAAA, are you changing your name to Soap Box Dave?

[nine8taco]

it is legal in some cases here in fl but it is a bit confusing you have to be able to differentiate species and there are definitely bag limits, there was a guy who was running a lfs around here and got caught harvesting live rock and is currently in jail

[chrisv]

anyone who is talking about bleaching events in south florida as a reply to someone talking about reef destruction in the south pacific needs to take a look at coral bleaching in the south pacific.

its happening there too.

The "protect our reefs while others are destroyed" position is a SHAMEFUL one to take. Protect all the reefs. period.

im 100% in favor of this hobby being forced to use only aquacultured corals.

Look at the beautiful corals for sale on this forum alone! there is no lack of diversity in captive systems! We wouldn't be missing out on ANYTHING.

[slapshot]

Originally Posted by chrisv

anyone who is talking about bleaching events in south florida as a reply to someone talking about reef destruction in the south pacific needs to take a look at coral bleaching in the south pacific.

its happening there too.

The "protect our reefs while others are destroyed" position is a SHAMEFUL one to take. Protect all the reefs. period.

im 100% in favor of this hobby being forced to use only aquacultured corals.

Look at the beautiful corals for sale on this forum alone! there is no lack of diversity in captive systems! We wouldn't be missing out on ANYTHING.

On the surface I totally agree with you but like most things in this world it's not that simple. Aquacultured corals are fantastic and great for local island economies but they put the cash in the hands of a few big corporations. Which is fine. But, if my choice is between a local breaking off a piece of SPS that will grow back and gets broke up in most good storms instead of finning a shark I think I'll take the piece of coral. It is not as simple as A or B. Both have their negatives but which is more renewable? Reefs are not bleaching from collection. If the economy grows and people are making their living off the reefs, and the economy puts money in the pockets of all they will in turn protect them. The hope is they will find they have the tax base to build sewer treatment plants, shoreline protection etc.

As a friend of mine who lives in Alaska always reminds me when discussing oil fields it is pretty sanctimonious of us to sit here and preach conservation to these small counties when we made our fortunes stripping the land of forests, grasslands etc. it is a hard argument to disagree with.