Reef Central Online Community

Home Forum Here you can view your subscribed threads, work with private messages and edit your profile and preferences View New Posts View Today's Posts

Find other members Frequently Asked Questions Search Reefkeeping ...an online magazine for marine aquarists Support our sponsors and mention Reef Central

Go Back   Reef Central Online Community > Marine Fish Forums > Fish Only & Aggressive Tanks
Register Blogs FAQ Calendar Mark Forums Read

Notices

Reply
Thread Tools
Old 03/07/2012, 09:35 PM   #1
Glennw
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 125
How to get Volitan Lionfish to eat frozen silversides

I have a 5" Volitan Lionfish. He currently will only eat live minnows. I'm trying to get it to eat frozen silversides. I stopped feeding it live minnows a couple of days ago. Is it just a matter of time before it finally gets hhungry enough that it will finally start to eat the frozen silversides? Anybody have any experience with this?


Glennw is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03/07/2012, 10:05 PM   #2
Jerry W
Registered Member
 
Jerry W's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: PA.
Posts: 2,877
You can take a wooden skewer and impale the silverside, then wiggle it in the water. The live prey simulation often triggers a feeding response. Some lions will simply cave to their hunger and eat them w/o your efforts. Also add other things to the menu; chopped table shrimp, small pieces of scallop, bonelss whitefish, squid, etc...
When I had my larger tanks, I kept a few lions, and all of them quickly weaned to "dead" foods.


__________________
Americans sleep peacefully in their beds at night because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.

Current Tank Info: 37 FOWLR; sixline wrasse, pair of ocellaris and a ywg
Jerry W is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03/08/2012, 09:45 AM   #3
namxas
Things With Stings R Us!
 
namxas's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Carson, CA
Posts: 5,082
First, get the fish off of the minnows...I realize that's the goal here, but if you can replace them with mollies, ghost shrimp, or large guppies, they're MUCH better for the fish.

I dunno if you've seen this article or not, but if not, you should give it a read:

Tools of the Trade: Equipment & Techniques to Convert your Fish onto Frozen

I highly recommend using "Renee's Super-Sleuth" stick. We use it to feed fish from 1" all the way up to our adult volitans. It doesn't freak the fish out, nor does it cause issues if they get a little too aggressive and "swallow" it.

Also, the size of the food item makes a big difference when weaning your fish. Don't give them anything that is much larger than their eye to start, as they can be intimidated by larger dead food items.

Here's the "stealth stick" in action:

STEALTH STICK


__________________
Greg

Current Tank Info: too many to describe, but i think the count is up to "lucky 13"!
namxas is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03/09/2012, 06:06 AM   #4
nirvanaandtool
Frakking Toasters!
 
nirvanaandtool's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Philadelphia, PA
Posts: 694
I can vouch for the stealth stick. It is great.
I use it for all my predators


__________________
-Ralph
Anglers, Scorps, & Mantis Shrimp, Oh My!

Current Tank Info: 90RR Predator Reef
nirvanaandtool is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03/09/2012, 05:25 PM   #5
Glennw
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 125
On the Stealth stick, what did you use as a clear plastic stick and where would you get it from? For the 50/lb monofilament fishing line, would you put one end of the line in one side of the gill on the silverside and have the line coming out the other gill?


Glennw is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03/09/2012, 06:08 PM   #6
C.Sharkdude
Where's you uniform?
 
C.Sharkdude's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: NE Ohio
Posts: 679
I have read/been told one of the best ways to get your lion to eat prepared foods is when in quarantine use the feeding stick to entice it to eat. With it being the only fish in there it will have no competition and a smaller space to swim in so its more likely to see and smell it.

I am currently on my third antennata. The previous two were from my lfs weak stock. This one is African and from liveaquaria.

My second one ate minnows and ghosts ferverishly. I did get it to eat a while frozen Alaskan shrimp once. It died a few days later from unknown causes.

I've got my 1.5" new lion in a 20g qt. I feed him gelled krill the first day and he ate it. Still haven't got it to eat NLS.

What's a good place to get the sleuth stick?


C.Sharkdude is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03/09/2012, 06:24 PM   #7
DoubleM 10
Registered Member
 
DoubleM 10's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Steamwood, IL
Posts: 1,367
Patience


__________________
Matt

Lions, Groupers and Eels o my!

Current Tank Info: Restarting a 60 gallon cube. in the works
DoubleM 10 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03/09/2012, 09:19 PM   #8
rayn
Registered Member
 
rayn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Pekin, Il
Posts: 2,866
Some lfs sell a clear acrylic rod, then tape the fishing line onto it. Thicker line like the 50 lb works better to help the wiggle then flimsy line does. It is better then the skewer as it can completely scare them off frozen if he happen to skewer themselves just once. The stealth is awesome, once you get one converted you wont use anything else.


__________________
Currently changing, stay tuned for new details...
rayn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03/09/2012, 09:30 PM   #9
Glennw
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 125
So on a silverside do you poke the line through the gill and out the rear fin?


Glennw is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03/09/2012, 09:42 PM   #10
rayn
Registered Member
 
rayn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Pekin, Il
Posts: 2,866
That or through the mouth into the fish.
Here is/should be a easy way.

Get some live ghost shrimp and get him eating those. Once on those try freezing them and using the stealth stick. When they thaw out you can manuver them around to trick the lion into thinking they are alive. Once on frozen place a small piece of silverside on the string and a frozen ghostie after so it sees the ghostie first. It should recognize the ghostie and suck in the silverside at the same time. After a few feedings of this you should be able to switch to silversides completely. You could also mix in salmon or some other seafood fair. It takes time, but is totally worth it in the end. Once on silversides and that much time has passed, it will recognize you as the food guy and come begging.

I only feed M, W, F and only what they can eat till a slight bulge in the belly.


__________________
Currently changing, stay tuned for new details...
rayn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03/10/2012, 07:32 AM   #11
Wolverine
RC Mod
 
Wolverine's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 1999
Location: West Bloomfield, MI
Posts: 17,440
Quote:
Originally Posted by Glennw View Post
So on a silverside do you poke the line through the gill and out the rear fin?
Doesn't really matter, as long as you can make it wriggle a little.

I like the "let's go fishing" method from that article. I had good success with that.


__________________
Human beings, who are almost unique in having the ability to learn from the experience of others, are also remarkable for their apparent disinclination to do so. -Douglas Adams

Current Tank Info: 14g, 29g nano reefs
Wolverine is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03/10/2012, 08:58 AM   #12
MrTuskfish
Registered Member
 
MrTuskfish's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: The Wild Blue Yonder
Posts: 8,887
Namxas's article, above, is the standard for weaning lions. I think a lot of folks give in too soon, a Volitan can go a long time without eating; and they are great beggars.


__________________
If God didn't want us to eat animals, he wouldn't have made them out of meat.


Steve

Current Tank Info: 180, 2-240 FOWLRs, 240 reef
MrTuskfish is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03/10/2012, 09:04 AM   #13
Glennw
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 125
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrTuskfish View Post
Namxas's article, above, is the standard for weaning lions. I think a lot of folks give in too soon, a Volitan can go a long time without eating; and they are great beggars.

How long can a Volitan go without eating? Today is Saturday and mine hasn't eaten since Monday.


Glennw is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03/10/2012, 03:05 PM   #14
Wolverine
RC Mod
 
Wolverine's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 1999
Location: West Bloomfield, MI
Posts: 17,440
Quote:
Originally Posted by Glennw View Post
How long can a Volitan go without eating? Today is Saturday and mine hasn't eaten since Monday.
I've had them go a couple of weeks without eating.


__________________
Human beings, who are almost unique in having the ability to learn from the experience of others, are also remarkable for their apparent disinclination to do so. -Douglas Adams

Current Tank Info: 14g, 29g nano reefs
Wolverine is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03/10/2012, 03:21 PM   #15
Glennw
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 125
Curious. Can lionfish get ick?


Glennw is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03/10/2012, 03:24 PM   #16
Wolverine
RC Mod
 
Wolverine's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 1999
Location: West Bloomfield, MI
Posts: 17,440
Yes. Doesn't happen as often as with tangs or anything really susceptible like that. Back before I learned to QT, I had an outbreak, and the lionfish was the last to show it. It can also be difficult to deal with because they tend to be more sensitive to copper.


__________________
Human beings, who are almost unique in having the ability to learn from the experience of others, are also remarkable for their apparent disinclination to do so. -Douglas Adams

Current Tank Info: 14g, 29g nano reefs
Wolverine is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03/10/2012, 03:25 PM   #17
namxas
Things With Stings R Us!
 
namxas's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Carson, CA
Posts: 5,082
Thanks for all the kind words.

A well-fed volitans can esily go a month without losing too much body mass, as can fuzzies, altho fuzzies will lose more weight over the same period of time...IIRC, they will lose about 10% more weight than the volitans.

The 50 lb test monofilament can be had at most sproting goods stores and tackle shops. Our first "stealth sticks" were modified commercial acrylic feeding sticks from the LFS. We now order 1/8" acrylic rod and make them from that, which is nice, because we can control the length of the stick that way.

It's really all about presentation, food size, technique, and patience (as mentioned).

We're currently working on an "improved", less visible stick, so stay tuned...


__________________
Greg

Current Tank Info: too many to describe, but i think the count is up to "lucky 13"!
namxas is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03/10/2012, 03:26 PM   #18
namxas
Things With Stings R Us!
 
namxas's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Carson, CA
Posts: 5,082
double post


__________________
Greg

Current Tank Info: too many to describe, but i think the count is up to "lucky 13"!
namxas is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03/10/2012, 03:34 PM   #19
namxas
Things With Stings R Us!
 
namxas's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Carson, CA
Posts: 5,082
Quote:
Originally Posted by Glennw View Post
Curious. Can lionfish get ick?
A pic is worth 1000 words:




Altho lionfish have a cuticle they shed periodically which makes them fairly resistant to ectoparasites, they can indeed become infested with Crypto. We used to use hypo to treat our fish, but we now use quinine sulfate(Crypto Pro) , as it is more effective against "resistant" strains.


__________________
Greg

Current Tank Info: too many to describe, but i think the count is up to "lucky 13"!
namxas is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03/10/2012, 08:45 PM   #20
Wolverine
RC Mod
 
Wolverine's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 1999
Location: West Bloomfield, MI
Posts: 17,440
Quote:
Originally Posted by namxas View Post
A well-fed volitans can esily go a month without losing too much body mass, as can fuzzies, altho fuzzies will lose more weight over the same period of time...IIRC, they will lose about 10% more weight than the volitans.
That's true, but with new additions, I start to worry at about 2 weeks, since I never know when they really last ate.


__________________
Human beings, who are almost unique in having the ability to learn from the experience of others, are also remarkable for their apparent disinclination to do so. -Douglas Adams

Current Tank Info: 14g, 29g nano reefs
Wolverine is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03/10/2012, 09:37 PM   #21
Glennw
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 125
Is there anything wrong with the lionfish continuing to eat live minnows or what about frozen krill if he will take that eventually?


Glennw is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03/11/2012, 06:44 AM   #22
spotfin
Registered Member
 
spotfin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Maine
Posts: 759
Several years ago I bought an acrylic feeding tube designed for morays. I forget who the manufacturer is. It is a T-shaped tube with a long, removable acrylic stick inside which is used to impale food on. I've never used the tube, but the stick is great for eels, frogfish, and lionfish.


spotfin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03/11/2012, 10:26 AM   #23
MrTuskfish
Registered Member
 
MrTuskfish's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: The Wild Blue Yonder
Posts: 8,887
Quote:
Originally Posted by Glennw View Post
Is there anything wrong with the lionfish continuing to eat live minnows or what about frozen krill if he will take that eventually?
Any FW fish is not healthy, long-term, for SW fish. They're too fatty and that can lead to liver damage. this is especially true of minnows from the goldfish/carp family. Krill have been linked to lockjaw in Lions. there are lots of good foods a trained lion will eat. My Volitans would eat a marshmallow if I was feeding it; once they learn who the Food God is, and that they don't get live minnows, they'll eat anything. Mine get silversides, chunks of shrimp, SW fish flesh, squid, etc. They even get an occasional piece of nori, wrapped around a piece of shrimp. Vitamins are also a big plus.


__________________
If God didn't want us to eat animals, he wouldn't have made them out of meat.


Steve

Current Tank Info: 180, 2-240 FOWLRs, 240 reef
MrTuskfish is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03/11/2012, 11:29 AM   #24
Glennw
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 125
Do you ever soak the frozen fish in garlic xtreme and selcon?


Quote:
Originally Posted by MrTuskfish View Post
Any FW fish is not healthy, long-term, for SW fish. They're too fatty and that can lead to liver damage. this is especially true of minnows from the goldfish/carp family. Krill have been linked to lockjaw in Lions. there are lots of good foods a trained lion will eat. My Volitans would eat a marshmallow if I was feeding it; once they learn who the Food God is, and that they don't get live minnows, they'll eat anything. Mine get silversides, chunks of shrimp, SW fish flesh, squid, etc. They even get an occasional piece of nori, wrapped around a piece of shrimp. Vitamins are also a big plus.



Glennw is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03/11/2012, 01:10 PM   #25
MrTuskfish
Registered Member
 
MrTuskfish's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: The Wild Blue Yonder
Posts: 8,887
I use Selcon & Vita-Chem; maybe every 3rd feeding. I'm not convinced that garlic does much, maybe is does, but certainly not all that its claimed to do. There also seems to be some evidence that long-term garlic use isn't healthy. I'll stay out of that argument.


__________________
If God didn't want us to eat animals, he wouldn't have made them out of meat.


Steve

Current Tank Info: 180, 2-240 FOWLRs, 240 reef
MrTuskfish is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 02:18 AM.


TapaTalk Enabled

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Powered by Searchlight © 2014 Axivo Inc.
Use of this web site is subject to the terms and conditions described in the user agreement.
Reef CentralTM Reef Central, LLC. Copyright 1999-2014