What to do while you cycle...

[Sk8r]

1. get a refractometer and figure how to use it. [Not rocket science, but there's a 0 in that 1.025 that is very important...]
2. get tests for alkalinity, calcium, magnesium, and alkalinity buffer as well as your test strips for ammonia/nitrate. Get a little notebook, and start logging your tests.
3. turn on all your equipment and get the temperature as close to 80 round the clock as you can with everything running, including your lights.
4. read the stickies in New to the Hobby. Then start reading stickies in Fish Disease. Use Google to get more information when you don't understand something. If you still don't understand it, then come to RC and post the question. If your lfs is telling you one thing and the stickies are telling you something else---put your money on the stickies. That advice has been gone over by more people. It may not be the ONLY way, but your personal chances of hitting a better method by taking a shortcut are about those of your getting hit by a meteorite. If there were shorter ways that work, we'd be on that like chickens on bugs.
5. Get your ro/di set up. And get 2 ATOs. [Automatic topoff dual float switches.] Get a spare tank for your quarantine that will hold one fish of the species you intend to keep. This one can be thin glass. You need a pvc elbow for a hidey-hole. An air pump and a very cheap filter you can stuff with floss. And make some anti-jump screens out of Gutter-guard or plastic needlepoint canvas---something to be sure your fish don't go carpet-surfing: startled marine fish jump like Olympians, and in our tanks, a jump can end very badly. Watch it, too, when getting them out of bags: plug your sink drain, eh?
6. Get an ATO running. This is tricksy, and you're bound to make a few mistakes. Make them now, before you have fish and corals.
7. Start researching the fish you want to have. Learn how big they grow, where they live and what they eat. Learn what they're compatible with ---and not. Go to Foster-Smith Live Aquaria: they have a compatibility chart. PS: 'reefsafe' means it doesn't eat corals; it doesn't mean it won't eat its tankmates or crunchy invertebrates.
8. Read up on managing Algae. My blog (blue number under my avatar) has some advice about dealing with this, and it doesn't involve exotic critters to eat it. It's about phosphate export. Critters poo stuff back in. GFO reactors and skimmers get it out.
9. once you're seeing green algae growing and have your cycle done, install cleanup crew. You don't need the qt tank for them...just put them on across---if your salinity matches their water. [I dunk mine in a little dish of tank water and toss that, to be sure I get all the fish store water off them before I put them in.] Their REAL job is not to eat all the algae: that's hopeless. Their real job is to poo into that sandbed and break it in gently, helping bacteria to go on multiplying until it can handle *gasp* a fish.
10. once your CUC [cleanup crew] is noshing algae, you can get a fish. It goes into that qt tank for 4 weeks. Use the other ATO on it, and test that water continually for ammonia and steady salinity. Change the filter floss daily, DON'T let it cycle, or try to cycle,---run it like an oldfashioned tank.

Now let me say something I hope you won't misunderstand: it's this. "You stand a better chance of having your fish survive by doing NO acclimation and just dropping him straight into your tank without checking the salinity---BETTER CHANCE, I say, than dropping fish after fish into your tank without quarantine." Why? Because most fish can survive a little salinity change FAR better than they can survive a bout with ich when they're in a weakened state. Yet people are fanatic to the max about 'acclimation', ---with gadgets and drip rigs and all this fuss and no little mythology--- and yet neglect to quarantine a fish that's been caught in the wild and exposed to parasites in confinement and then shipped and starved---I mean, if I said 'This child has been exposed to the measles---" would you say, oh, fine, let's invite him to our birthday party next week? No. You'd expect he MIGHT come down with measles in a few days.

Figure that your new fish has been exposed to some LETHAL parasites that live on fish or IN a sandbed. Don't put him straight into your tank! It's that tank you're protecting, as well as your fish. Understand that. Understand, too, that many of the pricier dealers do their own quarantine and try to sell clean fish---but THEIR little slip-up will become YOUR problem if they missed something. I don't know how many times I've had to console someone who after a year of luck, finally got The Deadly Fish that took out his whole tank. All I can say is---quarantine. It's kinder to a new fish: he doesn't have fish nipping at him, lights blinding him, no hole he dares claim, and food he's too stressed to eat. Just keep the surroundings dim and quiet, check him daily with a bright light, then turn it off and let him rest, sleep, and eat. This is the health spa. Ok?

Ich that breaks out in your tank infests your sandbed and rock and sends you back to square one, 12 awful no-fish weeks to wait until your tank is safe for fish again.

So, no,---Don't EVER drop a fish straight in without checking salinity, understand; but what gets my goat is that most people are fanatic about doing their acclimation procedure---yet they drop an unquarantined fish straight into their tank because 'the first one is all right, yeah?" Huh????? If that fish is infested with invisible parasites, it's NOT all right. Got it?

Good. Both check your salinity---AND quarantine your fish.

SO you put that first fish into that qt tank, coddle it and play with it for 4 weeks, and if it should break out in spots, #4 up there will have prepared you to know you have a problem. NEVER treat a fish in your display with the rock and sand. Treat ONLY in the qt tank. I'm sorry that it's not illegal to sell snake oil 'cures' that are supposed to be 'reef safe.' If any of these worked, we'd turn handsprings. As it is, they don't work, and while you're waiting for them to work, the disease is getting worse and will probably kill your fish. If it were human meds, it'd be taken off the market by the FDA. It's for 'just fish,' so there's no regulation.

Just don't buy it, don't use it, don't believe it. Go to the Fish Disease forum, diagnose it correctly!!!! ---because on a sick fish, the first treatment needs to be the right one, because every treatment weakens the fish a bit. You haven't got that much leeway for guesswork.

So now we've done all this while setting up, your fish is ready for the world you've made: check your salinity in your tank and your qt, and slip him right on in. He'll hardly notice the change if you've done things right, except that some current's brought him to a nice little spot with a lot of hideyholes.

[crobattt]

sticky?

[kingevil]

i would also suggest making a 'wish-list' of livestock and then researching the livestock's requirements and limitations.

[izzy123]

Sk8r, you do a great job in educating us newbees.
Yes, I still consider myself a newbee, and I think that is never going to change......
Because I'll never know it all.

I have given the advice to other newbees to read your blog many many times (as I still do myself on many occasions)
And in the process you make me look smarter too because I tell them to read your blog.....


BIG thumbsup for all you do

[igot2gats]

I agree with the above. Sk8r, you ROCK!

You put everything into an enjoyable read. Big difference between this and stuff you read elswhere online.

+1 to also a motion for sticky.

Question. Do you really suggest to run the tank lights on a normal schedule throughout the cycle process? Or were you just saying to turn them on with all other equipment to check everything?

P.S. I would assume it's common sense, but the QT also needs to be cycled.

[kingevil]

Originally Posted by igot2gats

P.S. I would assume it's common sense, but the QT also needs to be cycled.

not necessarily. you can set them up 'on the fly' without cylcing them. some people use a sponge filter that's been kept in their sump.

[Sk8r]

Actually, I keep a spare tank dry in the closet, and run it as an oldfashioned floss filter tank at need. Works fine that way. My objection to sand and rock in a qt tank (outside of those species who really need it, like angels and wrasses) is that if you have to medicate, you've not only got a sick fish, you're now going to crash the biomass in the rock and sand AND filter medium and instigate a water quality crisis and STILL have to go over to the non-cycled filter. So I just prefer to start out with the bare glass tank, no bio action, and work like a trooper to KEEP the qt from cycling. Meaning a scrupulously clean filter and careful feeding. If you get a good old fashioned filterbox, just wrap a teaspoon of carbon in a wad of pillow stuffing and use it for a filter, toss daily or whenever stained. And if you can't find an oldfashioned filterbox, just stuff a maxijet pump into an old CD container-box, cap with Gutter guard to keep floss out of the pump, stuff with floss and weight with a glass paperweight. That's a pot filter, and it works just like the old ones we used to get back in the 50's ---no cycled medium, just a debris trap that will sweep up spare food and waste. You just change it often enough to prevent a cycle, keep testing against ammonia, in case, and have Amquel (ammonia remover) on hand, also in case. If you suspect your aeration isn't enough, and marine fish are oxygen hungry, particularly tangs and angels, ---put in an airstone and wall it off with eggcrate lighting grid. That will supply oxygen and keep the fish out of the bubbles: some will put their heads into the bubble stream, and that's not good for the fish. Note: fish hovering near the surface and swimming with mouths close to the surface are in effect, gasping for breath: if you see that happen, that's an emergency---and it's not a bad notion, while you run to the store after a bubblestone--to have your SO start dipping out water and pouring it in from a little height: anything that forces air bubbles down into the water is going to help get some oxygen into it. Any time you suspect an issue of any kind---10 to 20% water change is indicated.


That's the 'other' way to do it, and as aforesaid, it's just because most people don't have room for 2 tanks and not everybody has angels and wrasses: if you want them, you do need to make some provision for them, even if it's one lonely rock sitting in a bowl of sand to be removed (to prevent a biomass crash) and kept apart from the tank for 12 fishless weeks, or allowed to dry out and re-processed as a dry rock added to the sump--- should you spot ich on the fish.

RE the tank lights---I spent three weeks getting my light/pump heat balance fixed, so I don't know how fast you can do it. When you're satisfied you can do it you can shut down the lights and skimmer pump until needed. But bioprocess, including your cycle, will run better at 80 than at 65, so there's a certain merit to keeping that temperature set throughout the cycle. If anything can hurry a cycle a wee bit, it's being warm enough but not too warm. CHemical processes run slower in cold.

[igot2gats]

Originally Posted by kingevil

not necessarily. you can set them up 'on the fly' without cylcing them. some people use a sponge filter that's been kept in their sump.

Right, but since this is directed towards new newbies, that's why I suggested it. I was assuming they don't have these capabilities / knowledge of how to do it on the fly.

If that's the case, then yes they can do it on the fly.

[kingevil]

Originally Posted by igot2gats

Right, but since this is directed towards new newbies, that's why I suggested it. I was assuming they don't have these capabilities / knowledge of how to do it on the fly.

If that's the case, then yes they can do it on the fly.

i agree. and a newbie wouldn't necessarily have a sponge filter ready to go.

[Paul B]

What to do while you cycle...

When I was waiting for the tank to cycle I think I read a book. But besides that, listen to Sk8r.
A lot of good information.

[Sk8r]

May I add one other note: read the sticky on acclimation! I'm firmly convinced that more marine fish have been killed by over-acclimation (which develops ammonia) than by too rapid an acclimation. The ocean is full of currents of different temperatures and salinity, and fish do not drop dead in huge numbers. They can adjust. What they can't deal with is ammonia. That's lethal. A bag that's been shipped overnight is full of ammonium that will start a deadly process the moment you open that bag: DO NOT OPEN the bag until you are within 30 minutes, preferably 20, of having that fish in your quarantine water. The clock ticks once the bag is open. The reason for it is in that sticky. I always feel so sad when someone has just lost a special fish---and I read the post, and it ends...and I acclimated him for 3 hours. What went wrong? Breaks my heart to tell him what happened. Don't let it happen to you. You're relatively safe just getting down the block from the fish store. But if there's been a lengthy car ride, still, it's worth thinking about. And ALWAYS with shipped fish.

[rl225]

Originally Posted by Sk8r

The clock ticks once the bag is open.

Never really gave this much thought.

[Toxic Slurpee]

Your posts are always fantastic & informative Sk8r, thanks!

[cloak]

I like to twiddle my thumbs, but that's just me...

Good stuff...

[Reeferz412]

When I first got my tank to cycle, I set up a table, and played beer pong with my old man and some friends. Summer is great. Very informative as always Sk8tr, I learned from you a while back about purchases and the ammonia content in bags. Glad this is a sticky for all newcomers to see.

[oibara599]

"once you're seeing green algae growing and have your cycle done, install cleanup crew."

How do you know when your tank is done cycling?

[Sk8r]

a) you see ammonia on your daily test.
b) you add a few flakes of fishfood a day and no more ammonia results for 5 days.
c) you then add a few snails or micro-hermits and they thrive. At that point, you can add more and start your first fish in quarantine.

[fng_71]

what would i do without sk8er. i feel more confident about starting a tank than ever before. but not too confident.

[06bug]

This would have been very helpful when I first started. Great pointers.

[mannie fresh]

yes these are great pointers. I been doing this for years and never really thought about once I open the bag the ammonia process starts.... I will now acclimate my fish a little faster

[CDRivera]

do I need to cycle the tank before I add my live rock and live sand?

[Sk8r]

You can't. It's the live rock that cycles the tank. Skip the live sand---just get bags of dry aragonite (Caribsea is a good brand) and wash it really well to get the cloudiness out: use Prime (a product) to dechlorinate the wash water. There will be a little dieoff in your live rock, and if not enough, then feed an imaginary fish, as per the info at the top of this thread: always read the first post in an informational thread.

[CDRivera]

Thank you for the information. I did read the post and all the posts there after I was just confused on feeding the invisible fish to start the cycle and if it should have been started before I put anything else in the tank. Thanks again!

[slant77]

How long are you supposed to keep feeding this ghost fish?

[Sk8r]

5 days after your ammonia spike goes away and stays gone.