Are Vortech pumps ever going to drop in price?

[tkeracer619]

The patent was already challenged last year. It will stand up no problem.

[Alex T.]

So much anger. Let's not lose sight that this is a hobby Danny. Raw material costs is a moot point if that's the crux of your argument. Look at the cost and labor of the bricks and sticks you live in and then see what the home actually costs to purchase. This is no different. You're not paying for magnets when you buy a Vortech. You're paying for the years of R&D, someone's revolutionary invention and their ability to bring it to market and service the customer. If you enjoy going after those with insane markups on their products then there are a host of bottled water companies that you may want to contact as well. They charge what they do because there's a need and a demand for that product. Athletic shoes have a higher profit margin than a Vortech. It's your view on things that causes the chuckles and smileys in the responding posts.

I have a very thick skin, and your comments don't bother me in the least. In fact, they're quite comical and fleeting. However it's your types of comments and angry tone that get threads closed. In the spirit of keeping it a hobby, lighten up a little. It's a water pump, and a damn good one!

[xdannyxrocksx]

In my opinion I dont think the pumps are that expensive to make. I think it's the controller that gets us. That is a very nice controller. Especially the "w" series that wireless sync is amazing.

[sirreal63]

[Danny_B]

Alex - haha, i know raw materials isn't the whole story, but that is what people were talking about. If you notice in my previous post i said r&d, i think everyone knows they have employees to pay, insurance, equipment, lease, etc and all other overhead.

Not angry, i just like to stir the pot and make you take a second look. like i said previously i own a vortech pump. I do love it, but revolutionary its not. they are nothing more than a magnetic stirrer; with a prop attached; magnetic coupling is used on many things.

[Allmost]

I just wanna say, if "rayban" glasses started selling at same price as other glasses, I would break mine tomorrow !

I wear ray ban, cause it has a brand, and I paid 2K for it ppl recognize it.

not everyone should wear ray bans. thats how it is.

same with ecotech ... if you cant justify the price, like my father cant justify why I would drop 2K for glasses, then it is not for you, you should not look at it again ...

[reefkeeper125]

Originally Posted by xdannyxrocksx

In my opinion I dont think the pumps are that expensive to make. I think it's the controller that gets us. That is a very nice controller. Especially the "w" series that wireless sync is amazing.

Trust me Im an Electrical Engineer and the controller does not cost that much to make.

[Allmost]

Originally Posted by reefkeeper125

Trust me Im an Electrical Engineer and the controller does not cost that much to make.

lol +1

[Alex T.]

Originally Posted by reefkeeper125

Trust me Im an Electrical Engineer and the controller does not cost that much to make.

And how much does it cost to make the bottled water that we drink? Have you ever questioned why it costs more per gallon than gasoline?

[6Speed]

Originally Posted by Allmost

I just wanna say, if "rayban" glasses started selling at same price as other glasses, I would break mine tomorrow !

I wear ray ban, cause it has a brand, and I paid 2K for it ppl recognize it.

not everyone should wear ray bans. thats how it is.

same with ecotech ... if you cant justify the price, like my father cant justify why I would drop 2K for glasses, then it is not for you, you should not look at it again ...

you paid 2000 dollars for a pair of sunglasses? what kind of raybans are these? I've seen them plenty of times for 140-170 bucks!

[Allmost]

Originally Posted by 6Speed

you paid 2000 dollars for a pair of sunglasses? what kind of raybans are these? I've seen them plenty of times for 140-170 bucks!

you remind me of my dad.

he told me he sees the exact same ones at walmart for 9.99 ....

[Alex T.]

I didn't even know Ray Ban had glasses with that ticket price. I'd love to see pictures of the equipment that runs your tank if you've got 2K for a pair of shades.

[albano]

Originally Posted by Allmost

I just wanna say, if "rayban" glasses started selling at same price as other glasses, I would break mine tomorrow !

I wear ray ban, cause it has a brand, and I paid 2K for it ppl recognize it.

not everyone should wear ray bans. thats how it is.

like my father cant justify why I would drop 2K for glasses...

+1 I'm with you...if Mercedes starts selling 'gullwings' for Camry prices...I'll BURN mine! ...only sane thing to do!



We feel you father's pain!



.

[rtparty]

Originally Posted by wayne in norway

'Good luck getting past the patent attorneys. Ecotech will shut them down the second they hit the market.'
You assume that Ecotechs patent would stand a bit of robust investigation. Magnet driven pumps aren't a new invention by them - kalk stirrers, chemical mix pumps have used them for a long time.
The quality could be better too. maybe I've just been unlucky with mine, but ones great, ones noisy and one failed right out of the box.

Like racer stated, the patent has already been challenged and EcoTech won. The magnetic driven part of it has no issue here. It is the separation of wetside and dryside where EcoTech cashed in.

I will say that the patent has extremely hindered progress though. I know a guy who has built his own Vortechs but with much better and different technology. They are silent and a fraction of the cost. They don't use the same motor technology at all. However, he can't openly post anything about them or he will be sued by EcoTech.

I like EcoTech and I like my Vortech but there is a little bit of Orbitech going on with it all. The patent is too broad and unfortunately halts progression.

[Alex T.]

Originally Posted by rtparty

Like racer stated, the patent has already been challenged and EcoTech won. The magnetic driven part of it has no issue here. It is the separation of wetside and dryside where EcoTech cashed in.

I will say that the patent has extremely hindered progress though. I know a guy who has built his own Vortechs but with much better and different technology. They are silent and a fraction of the cost. They don't use the same motor technology at all. However, he can't openly post anything about them or he will be sued by EcoTech.

I like EcoTech and I like my Vortech but there is a little bit of Orbitech going on with it all. The patent is too broad and unfortunately halts progression.

Ryan, I understand what you're saying, yet I fail to see how it halts progression. Ecotech was thinking outside the box...literally. If we're speaking in terms of a propeller pump, they've simply thought of a better way to to do it.

Maybe someone needs to re-think random water movement in an aquarium. Nobody's really tried to compete with the Tunze wavebox to my knowledge. If someone were to create a powerful spray bar type mechanism that was offered in different widths to fit different tank sizes, then maybe some kind of propulsion device could be designed that spread an even wave or specific frequency through the entire tank, without the need for more than one device based on tank width. Then there would be no "hot spot" right in front of the device, but rather an even current like you experience in nature. If you put your hand in front of a Vortech pump, it is much stronger than if your hand was just 3 or 4 inches to the left or right of the propeller. It doesn't matter what mode it's in, the propeller's immediate front is always strongest. I don't know the specific patent, but I'm sure there are other ways of moving water around an aquarium than using a propeller.

The beauty of being Ecotech right now is that they're being chased, and that's a good position to be in. There's probably a table at Tunze where designers and engineers look at a Vortech and think of different ways to compete with it. But, just when everyone comes up with something to compete with their product, my guess is that they'll come out with a whole new ball of wax in water movement. I don't see them being a one-hit wonder. They'll ride this wave (no pun intended) until others have something in the cooker that can compete, and then slyly introduce the next best thing for cheaper than a competitor's Vortech chaser, and slowly gain more market share. That's sort of how it's done.

[rtparty]

Originally Posted by Alex T.

Ryan, I understand what you're saying, yet I fail to see how it halts progression. Ecotech was thinking outside the box...literally.

It halts progression because EcoTech only knows what they know. People out there have created their own style of Vortech using different technology. Technology that is far advanced compared to EcoTech too.

You are right that Ecotech thought outside the box (pun intended). The patent is just too general IMO. In a very shortened manner it literally says that no one else can couple a pump with magnets through glass/acrylic. Therefore, no one else can move the motor out of the water like Ecotech did.

I am fine if the patent didn't allow others to use the same technology and method (read dryside/wetside) but allowed people to come up with another way to spin a propeller in the tank. There are people out there who have done it successfully but can't post about it and share their progression.

One guy that did it has used a motor that is silent. I don't know the exact way he did it but I know he is telling the truth about it all.

[cubsFAN]

I thought my mp10 pumps were over priced but after reading someone paid 2 gs for a pair of ray bans I don't feel like such a sucker. My outrageous cable bill doesn't even look so bad now, and I let them bend me over every month. Shame on me.

[Outdoorfishes]

If eveyone stop buying and go for alternative, the price will go DOWN.

What is a 2nd option ?

[Martin's Reef]

Originally Posted by cubsFAN

I thought my mp10 pumps were over priced but after reading someone paid 2 gs for a pair of ray bans I don't feel like such a sucker. My outrageous cable bill doesn't even look so bad now, and I let them bend me over every month. Shame on me.

+1 on the cable bill. However, I love my 2 mp40 bought used my mp20 picked up used and my mp10w es that I bought new just so it will work in conjunction with my radion light.

Sent from my DROID BIONIC using Tapatalk 2

[James77]

Originally Posted by Outdoorfishes

If eveyone stop buying and go for alternative, the price will go DOWN?

More than likely, the price would go UP. Less people buying the product means that all the overhead costs- salaries, rents, materials, taxes, etc, etc- are going to spread amongst less people. Plus less product selling means they may not be able to buy in bulk pricing.

[jcw]

Originally Posted by cubsFAN

I thought my mp10 pumps were over priced but after reading someone paid 2 gs for a pair of ray bans I don't feel like such a sucker. My outrageous cable bill doesn't even look so bad now, and I let them bend me over every month. Shame on me.

+1

And then this...

Originally Posted by Allmost

not everyone should wear ray bans. thats how it is.

I'm speechless...

[karsseboom]

okay back to the ray bans. where are these 2k ray bans? Do they have wipers?

[username in use]

my Ray Bans cost $170, so did the last pair, and the pair before them. The classic bombers, no reason to get anything else. Ive never seen $2,000 ray bans.

[Toxic Slurpee]

Originally Posted by username in use

my Ray Bans cost $170, so did the last pair, and the pair before them. The classic bombers, no reason to get anything else. Ive never seen $2,000 ray bans.

Me either; if it's real they were probably some weird special edition or something.

[6Speed]

Originally Posted by Allmost

you remind me of my dad.

he told me he sees the exact same ones at walmart for 9.99 ....

LOL...There's def some build and material diff in a standard pair of raybans and a pair of 10 shades from wally world. Mainly in the quality of lenses, I'm guessing.

However, I can't imagine there is any extra quality in material, or design, in a 2k dollar pair over raybans, over a standard pair.

So what exactly is the diff in these super special shades??


I agree with the poster about the patent being too broad. It's the same way with the LED patent over fish tanks. The whole point of patenting something was supposed to be to encourage innovation and it's gotten totally twisted out of context and used as a means for people to make money. Did you know there's a patent to have photo galleries online? Not anything specific like how it can be displayed or whatever...just a generic patent to share photos online!


Check out the NPR This American Life "When Patents Attack" http://www.thisamericanlife.org/radi...patents-attack