The Lion Tank

[The Mike]

So after reading Lionfishes and Other Scorpionfishes by Dr. Frank Marini I have decided Im going to turn my 85g into a Lions' den tank!

I would like to keep several Dendrochirus brachypterus(dwarf fuzzy lion) with 1 other midsized/large lion(species tbd).

-How many lions' could I keep in a 75g display+10g sump?(I plan to have plenty of LR with caves formed by pvc)

-Best CUC for lion tank?

-Anyone with prior experience on keep multiple lions' I would love to hear your personal experiences!

-Recommendation for a mid/large sized lion that can be happily housed with the dwarf fuzzys please!


Much Appreciated, Mike

[FMarini]

Hi Mike-
Thanks for reading my book. Hopefully you found it useful, and informative.

I can recommend a few choices for the mid bodied lion. You'll be able to find P Antennata and P mombassae as excellent choices, they stay in the size range which will be workable w/ D Brachypterus. I also think they look great. If you can find a healthy one- P radiata would also work, but their adult size can be surprisingly large.

The CUC is a "clean up crew"? if so, as mentioned in the lionfish book, lionfish wont bother small hermit crabs, starfish, sea urchins, and cucumbers.

Lastly, if i may add, i think what you'll find in a "lions den" tank is that at certain times of the day- regardless of how many lions you have in there, it will look empty. The fish are relatively sedentary, so if you want swimming and action and movement, you might want to consider a tankmates which swims much more than a lion. Your call.
frank

[Mental1]

Mike -- in my lion tank I have a fuzzy and a fu manchu. There's also a matted filefish with them who got rid of all of the aiptasia in that tank. It is a softy tank too so there's 3 big leathers and lots of mushrooms. It's a 65g tank but it is part of the bigger system. Just know that the bioload is heavy -- this tank always grows a lot algae. So going with Frank's suggestion, you may want to limit the number of lions in favor of some movement and less bioload.

[namxas]

Frank's book is indeed a great read, and IMHO a "must-have" for lionfish lovers.

To chime in on the multiple lion setup, once your lions get used to their digs, and know that people = food (esp. the one who feeds them), they will typically be out and about trying to get noticed.

We currently keep 2 mid-bodied lions (P. sphex, P. radiata) with a M-F pair of fuzzies (Dendrochirus brachypterus), a fu manchu (D. biocellatus), a cockatoo waspfish (Ablabys taenianotus), and a reef scorpionfish (Scorpaenodes caribbaeus). This tank is my fave setup right now.

Feeding time is NUTS in that tank, as we target feed each fish, and they all LOVE food.

I should add that the mid-bodied lions will be moving out of that setup (a 48" 100 gal) once our new tank comes online. We're hoping to add our yellow morph fuzzy to the 100 gal, but we're still on the fence regarding its sex (I'm afraid it's a male tho) as it still has some growing to do.

HTH

P.S. Frank's book features photos of many of our fish, including the volitans on the cover.

[The Mike]

Wow! Lots of awesome input here thank you everyone!!
Now where to start...Frank, your book was a great read and the information gained is above and beyond my expectations. As far as the tank looking empty during the day I completely understand and absolutely alright with this because most of the day I'm at work anyway.

Greg, that tank sounds like an awesome setup and I would love to see some pictures if possible for some ideas of my own. My question for you is what kind of maintance does that tank need to keep the bioload in check?

Much Appreciated, Mike

[The Mike]

Wow! Lots of awesome input here thank you everyone!!
Now where to start...Frank, your book was a great read and the information gained is above and beyond my expectations. As far as the tank looking empty during the day I completely understand and absolutely alright with this because most of the day I'm at work anyway.

Greg, that tank sounds like an awesome setup and I would love to see some pictures if possible for some ideas of my own. My question for you is what kind of maintance does that tank need to keep the bioload in check?

Much Appreciated, Mike

[nirvanaandtool]

Lion tanks are awesome. My 40 is set up to be a lion/scorp tank.

I think you'd be ok with 3 fuzzies but you will have to sex them into M-F-F. Two males will fight.
As for medium bodied lions, I'm partial to P. Mombasae after seeing pics of Greg and Renee's Mombasae. Though Antennata & Radiata are equally as nice.

I'd also suggest getting a Cockatoo Waspfish for that tank. I love my Cockatoo - it is a really funny fish and a constant begger. And they grow to a size that they can compete with the lions.

[namxas]

I'm guessing you mean the 100 gal...lemme see what I can find:

Here's the setup:







Filled:



Vids:

Feeding Time

Looking Around the Tank

Live macro is a huge aid in water quality, but we try to change out 5-10 gals every other week. The tank is running an Eshopps S-150 cone skimmer in the sump as well.

[The Mike]

Beautiful tank, LOVE the plumbing with that closed loop system. What type of macroalgae do you recommend? and what is the macro you have in your display on the right?

Are there more advantages keeping the macros in the display rather then the sump?

[The Mike]

Beautiful tank, LOVE the plumbing with that closed loop system. What type of macroalgae do you recommend? and what is the macro you have in your display on the right?

Are there more advantages keeping the macros in the display rather then the sump?

[The Mike]

After a wee bit more research and some handy dandy advice I think I'm going to go with a mombassae for the mid-bodied lion with 3 fuzzies.

What is going to be my best bet on finding a M-F pair of fuzzies? And how would you guys introduce these livestock to help them thrive and have a good natural pecking order?

I'm also very open to also adding a cockatoo waspfish alwell I'd love to hear more about this species from people that have housed them.

[nirvanaandtool]

The cockatoo is a character. They love to beg - but its like spaz out begging. And aren't content just sitting on the bottom waiting for food. Mine will snap up food at the surface before my redfin wasp can get to it.
They love to sit and hide in macroalgae. They kind of flop over like seaweed in a current like their head is too heavy. I'll get video of mine doing this.

Mine was very easy to train onto frozen. He started on live ghost shrimp but after a few days he was onto frozen jumbo mysis after watching my redfin eat it. Now he isn't picky about anything.

[namxas]

I like the look of macro in my DT's, and that gives me more equipment room in my sumps and eliminates the lighting requirement for it. The stuff you're wondering about is Caulerpa taxifolia, which is banned as a noxious weed in many states (including mine). It came in as a hitchhiker on some LR, but we're very careful to freeze any unused prunings for 24 hrs prior to disposing of them. It is a fast-grower, and is great for nutrient export.

If you're considering a cockatoo waspfish, it will be right at home in a stand of macro, and will spend a good deal of its time hunting pods there between meals. Our cockatoo has always been one of our faves.

P. mombasae is a great fish, and is a super pretty fish, as they are typically striped in bright red and white. P. mombassae is very similar in appearance to P. antenatta, so be sure of your ID. Aslo, the large eyes of P. mombassae tend to go cloudy as water quality declines, rather like a canary in a mineshaft, so to speak.

If you can get the fuzzies at the same time and let them grow a bit together, that's the best bet. Sometimes young fish can fool you regarding their sex, however, and there are those "6-band crossover" fish which could swing either way if you try to sex the by pectoral banding alone (females typically have 4-6 dark bands while males have 6+ dark bands).

HTH

[The Mike]

Ralph, sounds like your cockatoo has great personality and yes any pics or vids of him would be awesome!

Greg, lots of great input on the cockatoo's, mombassae and the fuzzies. As far as the macro do you recommend a certain type? Is there a "go to" type that you have used throughout the years?

Again, what would be the best order to introduce these fish into there new home?(mombassae/fuzzies/possible cockatoo) my fault for not specifying previously.

[MrTuskfish]

Anytime you get Namxas & FMarini on the same thread, you learn something. Like a round of golf with Bubba Watson & Phil Mickelson. (But nobody named "Bubba'' buttons the top button on a golf shirt!)
I've kept several lions since I got into the hobby; my favorite in a smallish tank has become P mombassae---personality plus! Mine are as tame as big, old Volitans.

[randomfishguy85]

i dont think anyone mentioned this. but you might want to consider getting a larger sump. you cant really do much with 10 gallons.

[The Mike]

Thanks for the input Fishguy. I will definitely consider this. For now I only plan to have my seaclone100 skimmer with LR a heater In the sump.

[The Mike]

Anyone with pictures or videos of there lionfish I would love to see them for some new ideas!

Much Appreciated, Mike

[namxas]

Mike, you shouldn't as something like that...

Mid-bodied Lionfish:

P. mombassae (definitely a fave)



P. sphex (very rare, from HI)



P. antennata



And last, but certainly not least...P. radiata:

[Wistler]

Awesome pictures! We love our dwarf fuzzy lion fish and he is doing great in our 40 breeder refugium with LR rubble and macro alge. He eats anything we drop in the tank.

Larry

[The Mike]

Great pictures Greg, thank you for sharing!


Just ordered 40 lbs of base rock today from marcorocks, will be buying 50lbs of LR to seed it this Thurday/Friday depending on when the dry rock arrives.

I'm going to start my basic scape(possibly a lagoon type depending on how the rocks look when they end up in the tank) with the dry rock and try to incorporate some pvc to make some tunnels and caves. Will have some photo updates soon when the rock arrives!

Any recommendations for aquascapes for a lion/scorp tank? please and thank you! (Pictures always help)

[alexandernewell]

wow. I have been doing research on reef central for 3 years and keeping salt for 2 now and I never fail to be amazed at what a great resource this is. To be able to actually talk with the author of one of my favorite saltwater books and a myriad of experts is fantastic.

Dr. Marini, your book is the reason I even considered anything other than a "reef" aquarium. I hope you write about other species as well, the lion fish book is fun to read, extremely informative, and very inexpensive for the quality. You did a spectacular job.

Back to topic: I want to set up two different lion based tanks. One for small lions, scorpions, and angler/frogfish. One for larger species of the same. Maybe a fox face or rabbit fish as mr. obvious since everyone will be sedentary and hopefully well camouflaged.

The small tank is a 45 gallon pentagon in the shape of the superman logo. Probably from the 1980s. Its basically 22"x22"x25" so it seems like a natural fit for dwarf sedentary predatory fishes. I'd like to keep a P. heterura, D. brachypterus, D. biocellatus as the lions. 2x Antennarius maculates and one Histrio histrio as the anglers. 2x Taenianotus triacanthus for the scorpions.

I know that is a huge bioload for that size tank but it will be plumbed into a 350 gallon system. I am afraid that that may be too many fish for that area but I am uncertain given that each fish is sedentary and I can achieve quite a bit of vertical aquascaping. The research I have done seems to say they can get along but I don't know the territory requirements of each.

The larger tank is a 92 gallon Corner tank. I'd like to keep 2x Rhinopias frondosa Scorps, a P. radiate, a P. mombasae, and 2x Antennarius commersoni or similar species in the 8~10" max size range. This will also be plumbed into the same 350 gallon system that will affectionately be dubbed "Lions and Leathers"

Big questions. Anglers, good choice or anyone have a bad experience? 14 fish for a 350 gallon system. Too much? 8 dwarf species in a 45? 6 medium in a 92?

Thanks in advance for helping save fish from my ambitions.

[geaux xman]

Originally Posted by namxas

Mike, you shouldn't as something like that...

Mid-bodied Lionfish:

@ Greg

What are the dimensions of the tank? I need a 2nd FOWLR thats 150g+.

[The Mike]

Alexandernewell, I'm glad my thread has caught your eye and interest. Hopefully someone with some knowledge on keeping those lions, scorps and anglers you mentioned will chime in with an answer for you.

I'm quite interested in your ideas for the build I'd love to hear more about it.

[nirvanaandtool]

Originally Posted by alexandernewell

wow. I have been doing research on reef central for 3 years and keeping salt for 2 now and I never fail to be amazed at what a great resource this is. To be able to actually talk with the author of one of my favorite saltwater books and a myriad of experts is fantastic.

Dr. Marini, your book is the reason I even considered anything other than a "reef" aquarium. I hope you write about other species as well, the lion fish book is fun to read, extremely informative, and very inexpensive for the quality. You did a spectacular job.

Back to topic: I want to set up two different lion based tanks. One for small lions, scorpions, and angler/frogfish. One for larger species of the same. Maybe a fox face or rabbit fish as mr. obvious since everyone will be sedentary and hopefully well camouflaged.

The small tank is a 45 gallon pentagon in the shape of the superman logo. Probably from the 1980s. Its basically 22"x22"x25" so it seems like a natural fit for dwarf sedentary predatory fishes. I'd like to keep a P. heterura, D. brachypterus, D. biocellatus as the lions. 2x Antennarius maculates and one Histrio histrio as the anglers. 2x Taenianotus triacanthus for the scorpions.

I know that is a huge bioload for that size tank but it will be plumbed into a 350 gallon system. I am afraid that that may be too many fish for that area but I am uncertain given that each fish is sedentary and I can achieve quite a bit of vertical aquascaping. The research I have done seems to say they can get along but I don't know the territory requirements of each.

The larger tank is a 92 gallon Corner tank. I'd like to keep 2x Rhinopias frondosa Scorps, a P. radiate, a P. mombasae, and 2x Antennarius commersoni or similar species in the 8~10" max size range. This will also be plumbed into the same 350 gallon system that will affectionately be dubbed "Lions and Leathers"

Big questions. Anglers, good choice or anyone have a bad experience? 14 fish for a 350 gallon system. Too much? 8 dwarf species in a 45? 6 medium in a 92?

Thanks in advance for helping save fish from my ambitions.

I'd rethink some of your stocking plans.

P. Heterura is a cold water lion and does best at temps below 65F. I know Greg has some experience with these guys so he could shed some light here.

The anglers with the scorps is generally a bad idea. Anglers can and will eat fish that are the same size as them or larger. Anglers probably should be in a species tank. IMO, its not worth the risk. The Leaf Scorpionfish should be fine with the dwarf lions.
I definitely would leave A. Commerson out of the larger tank. These guys grow really big and I assume they will have a really large mouth too. I'd say this is a definite species tank fish.