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Old 08/08/2012, 11:20 AM   #26
FishyFishy69
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So I should realistically have a hospital tank, and a QT tank? I would hate to have to break down everything and bleach it after I medicate for issues.


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Old 08/08/2012, 11:26 AM   #27
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That is just my opinion. I would not want to introduce a new healthy fish into a tank that was medicated for a sick fish. In your case, I would have a standby hospital tank just in case.


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Old 08/08/2012, 02:22 PM   #28
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Originally Posted by FishyFishy69 View Post

1. I recently had a Powder Blue that I didn't quarantine get ich, I luckily got him out at the first signs, and saved the rest of the fish. But I did my first Cupramine dosage in the QT tank. Now that the tank has had Cupramine, do I have to do anything in particular? Can I still put new fish in the QT to do observation before added to my DT?
First off if u noticed ich on your PBlue in your main tank then it might already be too late for the rest of the fish as well. (just my opinion) watch them closely.
Also after medicating your QT with copper you dont really have to break it down to make it an observation tank. I always do water changes in QT after weeks of treatment to bring the copper down to as close to 0 as possible then i use cuprisorb till all the copper is gone turning the QT to hospital tank.


2. I know that now that I have added cupramine, I shouldn't ever add the rock, heater, filters or water to my DT, but I did happen to do a water change on my QT with the same hose I usually use for my DT water changes last night. Should I get a new hose for water changes on the DT now?
i would avoid using anything that u use in main tank just to be on the safe side.

3. When taking the fish out of QT after medicating, are there any steps that I need to take before putting him back in to the DT? Or just the regular water changes until copper is low after medicating?
medication time: (6 weeks in my case)(first 2 weeks at low strength, then 2-3 weeks full strength and last 2 with water changes back to 0)
to ur question yes i do have a few steps i take to ready transfer. after weeks of treatment i start doing water changes till my seachem copper test kits dont show copper anymore. then i use cuprisorb to make sure for few weeks.Then the final day of transfer i give fish a bath in a bucket with water from main tank and net it out after 10-15min to main.


4. Should I have a light on it? The room does get light and dark with the window in the room.
lights are not a must but are good to observe. i do have a cheap t5 fixture with just 2 50/50 bulbs.


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Old 08/08/2012, 02:48 PM   #29
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Thats excellent thank you!

I'm glad I don't have to make two different tanks at the moment.

Luckily with the display tank it has been 4 weeks without any sign of ich on the other fish, but I will continue to watch them. The PB only had one little spec on his fin when I took him out, so I'm hoping the rest will be ok.


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Old 08/08/2012, 03:53 PM   #30
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Thats excellent thank you!

I'm glad I don't have to make two different tanks at the moment.

Luckily with the display tank it has been 4 weeks without any sign of ich on the other fish, but I will continue to watch them. The PB only had one little spec on his fin when I took him out, so I'm hoping the rest will be ok.
i am glad to hear that ur main is ok so far and hopefully soon ur PB will recover too. good luck and happy reefing.


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Old 08/15/2012, 08:55 PM   #31
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I'm in the process of QT'ing a pair of clowns for my DT. The QT is fully cycled. I'm doing Prazi Pro and Cupramine and then after their time they'll go in my DT. My question is: What do I need to do to prep my QT for the next fish? I'm planning a firefish goby next.

Can I just run some carbon to remove the copper and do a 50% water change before adding the next fish? How long do I need to run the carbon to remove the copper?


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Old 08/16/2012, 12:28 AM   #32
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first off i would not mix both meds. do separate weeks. then when the cupramine weeks are over start doing water changes so u bring levels down slowly. after few water changes mostly all the copper will be gone. then u can run carbon, i always ran cuprisorb till all traces of copper are gone.


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Old 08/22/2012, 05:40 PM   #33
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Frozen Shrimp or Live Shrimp?

Question about the frozen shrimp to kick start the cycle. Can I buy a live shrimp from the Asian markets? Is there something about the frozen shrimp that makes it better? Also, should I remove the shrimp after sometime? Or just leave it in the tank? Thanks in advance!


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Old 08/22/2012, 09:54 PM   #34
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Question about the frozen shrimp to kick start the cycle. Can I buy a live shrimp from the Asian markets? Is there something about the frozen shrimp that makes it better? Also, should I remove the shrimp after sometime? Or just leave it in the tank? Thanks in advance!
very good question..
but answer is the same as always. fish or shrimp either or will probably not survive a cycle. or at worse if they do survive it will be very miserable. cycle will expose them to high levels of toxic's that will damage their internal organs if not kill them. its just cruel.
This is why here on RC we focus on fish-less cycles.
Now with no live animal in question, buy a tray of cocktail shrimp and some cocktail sauce. eat all the shrimp dipping in sauce they are tasty. ummmm.....
and the last one throw it in the QT for 3-4 days. (even less as u test for ammonia everyday) once ammonia hit about 1 or more take it out.
Why is a frozen shrimp better? its because
1. its not alive and not subject to poisoning in toxic water and
2 its dead already and will start decaying soon in water releasing ammonia much needed to kick start a cycle.


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Old 08/22/2012, 10:30 PM   #35
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very good question..
but answer is the same as always. fish or shrimp either or will probably not survive a cycle. or at worse if they do survive it will be very miserable. cycle will expose them to high levels of toxic's that will damage their internal organs if not kill them. its just cruel.
This is why here on RC we focus on fish-less cycles.
Now with no live animal in question, buy a tray of cocktail shrimp and some cocktail sauce. eat all the shrimp dipping in sauce they are tasty. ummmm.....
and the last one throw it in the QT for 3-4 days. (even less as u test for ammonia everyday) once ammonia hit about 1 or more take it out.
Why is a frozen shrimp better? its because
1. its not alive and not subject to poisoning in toxic water and
2 its dead already and will start decaying soon in water releasing ammonia much needed to kick start a cycle.
Awww~ I see! Thx for the quick response! I do plan on utilizing the fish-less cycle for my DT. Just for some reason, did not equate the shrimp for sell in the market at the same level as a damsel. If that makes sense... LOL

I'm probably over thinking on this, but is there a difference between cooked and raw shrimp when kick starting the cycle? Also, I would have to "ghost feed" the permanent QT to keep the bacteria alive when there isn't any fish in it, right?


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Old 08/23/2012, 07:40 AM   #36
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I'm probably over thinking on this, but is there a difference between cooked and raw shrimp when kick starting the cycle? Also, I would have to "ghost feed" the permanent QT to keep the bacteria alive when there isn't any fish in it, right?
no there is no difference in raw or cooked shrimp, point is to introduce any meat that will decay and cause ammonia. i have even started tanks with a piece of frozen fish..
once a tank is cycled and you do not introduce a fish in it then yes ghost feed every 3rd day or so to keep food decaying and producing ammonia to keep bacteria fed.

Note: i keep a PJ cardinal in m y QT tank all the time instead of ghost feeding.


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Old 08/23/2012, 01:20 PM   #37
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no there is no difference in raw or cooked shrimp, point is to introduce any meat that will decay and cause ammonia. i have even started tanks with a piece of frozen fish..
once a tank is cycled and you do not introduce a fish in it then yes ghost feed every 3rd day or so to keep food decaying and producing ammonia to keep bacteria fed.

Note: i keep a PJ cardinal in m y QT tank all the time instead of ghost feeding.
Got it! Thx for sharing the tip about you keeping a PJ cardinal in your QT. Think I'm going to adopt the idea. The tank I got for my QT is 20 gallon. My list of fishes are newbie friendly and think the most aggressive ones will be the pair of black/white clowns and yellow tang I want to add towards end. Do you see any issues if I put the two clown fishes into a 20G QT w/ the cardinal in it? I would be getting small/young clown fishes. Will having three fishes (the 2 clowns and cardinal) in a 20G QT for 4 weeks stress them out too much? Believe the clowns won't get territorial until they get older? And I'm assuming the 20G QT tank will be enough to house three fishes as long as I keep the water parameter in check by performing more water changes, am I right?

Once again, thanks for all your expert advice!


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Old 08/23/2012, 03:04 PM   #38
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Got it! Thx for sharing the tip about you keeping a PJ cardinal in your QT. Think I'm going to adopt the idea. The tank I got for my QT is 20 gallon. My list of fishes are newbie friendly and think the most aggressive ones will be the pair of black/white clowns and yellow tang I want to add towards end. Do you see any issues if I put the two clown fishes into a 20G QT w/ the cardinal in it? I would be getting small/young clown fishes. Will having three fishes (the 2 clowns and cardinal) in a 20G QT for 4 weeks stress them out too much? Believe the clowns won't get territorial until they get older? And I'm assuming the 20G QT tank will be enough to house three fishes as long as I keep the water parameter in check by performing more water changes, am I right?

Once again, thanks for all your expert advice!
my cardinal been there from day 1. been through medications, copper treatment and bad days. it also been with lots of tank mates or all kinds and aggression levels. i have never had any issue with a cardinal and some other fish. PJ cardinal is probably the least aggressive fish i have kept in QT. it dont bother no one and no one bothers her.
2 clowns and a pj will be just fine in a 20gal (same as my QT)
keep up with water parameters.

Note: another tip is to buy an egg crate sheet from homedepot or lowes and place it long ways dividing the tank in equal long ways half of 10gal each or u can also go fron back to front.
going long ways give more swimming space than front to back.


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Old 08/23/2012, 04:41 PM   #39
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my cardinal been there from day 1. been through medications, copper treatment and bad days. it also been with lots of tank mates or all kinds and aggression levels. i have never had any issue with a cardinal and some other fish. PJ cardinal is probably the least aggressive fish i have kept in QT. it dont bother no one and no one bothers her.
2 clowns and a pj will be just fine in a 20gal (same as my QT)
keep up with water parameters.

Note: another tip is to buy an egg crate sheet from homedepot or lowes and place it long ways dividing the tank in equal long ways half of 10gal each or u can also go fron back to front.
going long ways give more swimming space than front to back.
Cool! I actually have an egg crate sheet already as I plan to separate the pump, heater, air stone, and any other goodies from the fish. Will separate the fishes if they seem to be fighting.

How do you secure the egg crate sheet in the tank? Just fit it snugly against the glass?


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Old 08/23/2012, 05:54 PM   #40
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Cool! I actually have an egg crate sheet already as I plan to separate the pump, heater, air stone, and any other goodies from the fish. Will separate the fishes if they seem to be fighting.

How do you secure the egg crate sheet in the tank? Just fit it snugly against the glass?
yup or cut your egg crate in a way that it looks like a T-shirt. then its easy to remove and place.
here is a rough sketch.



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Current Tank Info: 350g DT,95g sump, 50g Frag tank, 4800gph return 4x Sea swirls. 6x AI Vega Color. 200# Pukani rock, dual recirculating skimmer, Biopellet, GFO Carbon rx's, Cal rx. Closed loop. 1.5hp chiller, genesis renew. Apex & RKE
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Old 08/23/2012, 10:09 PM   #41
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yup or cut your egg crate in a way that it looks like a T-shirt. then its easy to remove and place.
here is a rough sketch.
Egg crate T-shirt it is! Thanks again for all your tips and advice. Hope one day I will be the one shedding the lights on the newbies!


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Old 08/23/2012, 11:34 PM   #42
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Egg crate T-shirt it is! Thanks again for all your tips and advice. Hope one day I will be the one shedding the lights on the newbies!
lol trust me you will one day. i was in the same corner as u r today 18 yrs ago. back then i didnt know reef central. i didnt know even information can be collected from internet. i live in small town Tulsa Oklahoma.
Imagine the trial and errors lmao..... but we live and learn.
good luck reefing please dont hesitate asking anything.


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"Reef Fast, You Crash, Reef Slow, You Pass" Mike's Reef 3:16

Current Tank Info: 350g DT,95g sump, 50g Frag tank, 4800gph return 4x Sea swirls. 6x AI Vega Color. 200# Pukani rock, dual recirculating skimmer, Biopellet, GFO Carbon rx's, Cal rx. Closed loop. 1.5hp chiller, genesis renew. Apex & RKE
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Old 08/24/2012, 11:06 PM   #43
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yup or cut your egg crate in a way that it looks like a T-shirt. then its easy to remove and place.
here is a rough sketch.
Quote:
Originally Posted by bnumair View Post
lol trust me you will one day. i was in the same corner as u r today 18 yrs ago. back then i didnt know reef central. i didnt know even information can be collected from internet. i live in small town Tulsa Oklahoma.
Imagine the trial and errors lmao..... but we live and learn.
good luck reefing please dont hesitate asking anything.
Yea, definitely a privilege to have guidance from all the experts here on RC! Thanks again! Cheers!!


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Old 08/27/2012, 07:13 PM   #44
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What the!? So it is actually quite a common a practice to proactively treat incoming fish without any signs of disease with copper treatments which tend to nevertheless be a bit harsh on them? I had tried to find out about whether I should be doing so before, but couldn't find out anything about it, so that is news to me! I'm in.

Is it just copper that should be treated with, or is there any second remedy as well that would provide a good supplementary treatment for any other common types of maladies?

I think I will set up a quarantine tank, but perhaps not permanently. I suppose I will keep a big mesh bag of extra floss in one of the rear compartments of my DT, and then rotate that out to a canister filter stuck on the quarantine tank whenever I need to use the QT.

I would like to do something for denitrification as well though. Could I use a bag of denitrifying carbon pellets which I'd (permanently) remove from my DT in order to do so, and can I use denitrifying pellets if I'm not using a skimmer on the QT? Or would I be better off trying to section off part of the QT which I'd use for nutrient export via chaeto by adding a sump light? I guess that I could add an auto feeder to do ghost-feedings in the absence of any fish to keep it low maintenance.

I might even wish to keep a QT as a seagrass tank though, and the seagrass would at least help detoxify nitrogen compounds, though any invert algae eaters might not fare quite as well with copper treatment. Perhaps an Algae Blenny nevertheless might. And some Neon Gobies if they wouldn't mind copper treatments... so perhaps this might be a permanent QT after all...

Does anyone actually quarantine corals, shrimp, snails, anemones, and clams as well? Or do they just dip the corals in CoralRX before tossing them in the DT? Not sure what to do about the other inverts though...


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Old 08/27/2012, 08:23 PM   #45
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What the!? So it is actually quite a common a practice to proactively treat incoming fish without any signs of disease with copper treatments which tend to nevertheless be a bit harsh on them? I had tried to find out about whether I should be doing so before, but couldn't find out anything about it, so that is news to me! I'm in.
Its some what common, let me explain. it is wise to QT each new addition. Some people just QT them and watch them over number of weeks to make sure fish is pest free. Some dont wait, they use meds like formalin or prazipro to take care of parasites (not ich), Some use copper anyways to just be 100% sure. So its your call how u feel.
I personally get a new fish and use prazipro for 1 week and watch next 3 weeks for signs of ich.


Is it just copper that should be treated with, or is there any second remedy as well that would provide a good supplementary treatment for any other common types of maladies?
prazipro and formalin and similar medicine will take care of most of the parasites except ich. For ich there are only 3 known successful methods:
1. Hypo-salinity
2. Copper based meds
3. Tank transfer method


I think I will set up a quarantine tank, but perhaps not permanently. I suppose I will keep a big mesh bag of extra floss in one of the rear compartments of my DT, and then rotate that out to a canister filter stuck on the quarantine tank whenever I need to use the QT.
I strongly recommend a QT. an extra cartidge filter or floss in main tank is a good idea to grow bacteria on and thus when needed can be pulled out and used in QT.
Reminder: if you ever use meds with copper then this media/filter/floss can NEVER go back to main tank


I would like to do something for denitrification as well though. Could I use a bag of denitrifying carbon pellets which I'd (permanently) remove from my DT in order to do so, and can I use denitrifying pellets if I'm not using a skimmer on the QT? Or would I be better off trying to section off part of the QT which I'd use for nutrient export via chaeto by adding a sump light? I guess that I could add an auto feeder to do ghost-feedings in the absence of any fish to keep it low maintenance.
carbon and copper will not go together it will absord copper as u medicate the tank thus causing inaccurate dosing.

I might even wish to keep a QT as a seagrass tank though, and the seagrass would at least help detoxify nitrogen compounds, though any invert algae eaters might not fare quite as well with copper treatment. Perhaps an Algae Blenny nevertheless might. And some Neon Gobies if they wouldn't mind copper treatments... so perhaps this might be a permanent QT after all...
If you plan on using copper in this QT you will need to pull all the items u stated out otherwise medicating the tank at right strength will ne a nightmare and after using copper none of the at stuff will survive in that water.


Does anyone actually quarantine corals, shrimp, snails, anemones, and clams as well? Or do they just dip the corals in CoralRX before tossing them in the DT? Not sure what to do about the other inverts though...
inverts dont need to be treated with copper nor dips. Anemones or clams dont require a dip either.
Corals do. i recommend using dips like coral rx and following manufacturer's directions to rid unwated pests on corals.



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Water Quality: NO3 0,Phos 0,Cal 440,Alk 7.5,Mag 1300

"Reef Fast, You Crash, Reef Slow, You Pass" Mike's Reef 3:16

Current Tank Info: 350g DT,95g sump, 50g Frag tank, 4800gph return 4x Sea swirls. 6x AI Vega Color. 200# Pukani rock, dual recirculating skimmer, Biopellet, GFO Carbon rx's, Cal rx. Closed loop. 1.5hp chiller, genesis renew. Apex & RKE
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Old 08/27/2012, 08:39 PM   #46
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Thanks for the quick answer, which provided a great deal of clarity! Okay, so I will just run a bare QT tank as necessary, and will medicate my new fish with something or other, which I will look into researching further as to what treatment to decide upon.

So with new snails and shrimp do you just add them straight into the display tank, or quarantine them but not medicate them? And is there any particular risk of adding them straight in, in terms of diseases which they could nevertheless have on them from being with fish in LFS tanks? Would hate to see that nevertheless be a pathway for the introduction of something such as Marine Velvet...

When I mentioned denitrifying carbon pellets I meant carbon dosing bio-pellets, http://www.bulkreefsupply.com/filter...iopellets.html not activated carbon. Would a bag of mature biopellets potentially be okay to add to the canister filter of a QT if I wasn't using a skimmer? (I heard you shouldn't be dosing organic carbon in any form without a skimmer, but I'm not sure of that).


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Old 08/27/2012, 10:37 PM   #47
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Thanks for the quick answer, which provided a great deal of clarity! Okay, so I will just run a bare QT tank as necessary, and will medicate my new fish with something or other, which I will look into researching further as to what treatment to decide upon.
Thank you and yes bare QT is the way to go. I dont prefer copper right off until i know for sure fish has ich, but i do give new fish a must prazipro treatment.

So with new snails and shrimp do you just add them straight into the display tank, or quarantine them but not medicate them? And is there any particular risk of adding them straight in, in terms of diseases which they could nevertheless have on them from being with fish in LFS tanks? Would hate to see that nevertheless be a pathway for the introduction of something such as Marine Velvet...
inverts dont carry ich or marine velvet. i recommend a drip acclimation method for inverts. Inverts dont do well in shipping/transporting. nor they do good with water chemistry change. So check for salinity changes and paremeters and do a slow drip acclimation

When I mentioned denitrifying carbon pellets I meant carbon dosing bio-pellets, http://www.bulkreefsupply.com/filter...iopellets.html not activated carbon. Would a bag of mature biopellets potentially be okay to add to the canister filter of a QT if I wasn't using a skimmer? (I heard you shouldn't be dosing organic carbon in any form without a skimmer, but I'm not sure of that).
you can use them but once u decide to do copper treatment take them out and treat a bare hospital tank. using pellets or rock or sand or carbon etc will cause copper to be absorbed/attach to such items and make dosage very hard to keep steady which is a must using copper.


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Old 08/27/2012, 10:39 PM   #48
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Mxx, lol i just noticed ur in London. my brother is at Brunell University London and i travel back and forth to London or to my Sister in Oslo Norway. I was there in south Hall area just in March. Lol small world.


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Current Tank Info: 350g DT,95g sump, 50g Frag tank, 4800gph return 4x Sea swirls. 6x AI Vega Color. 200# Pukani rock, dual recirculating skimmer, Biopellet, GFO Carbon rx's, Cal rx. Closed loop. 1.5hp chiller, genesis renew. Apex & RKE
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Old 09/05/2012, 10:01 PM   #49
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This is a very helpful thread! Thanks for everyone who is participating in the discussion.


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Old 09/06/2012, 06:00 PM   #50
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Do you have to quarantine inverts before putting them in an invertebrate only tank?


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