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Old 09/16/2012, 09:23 PM   #76
bnumair
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kgis View Post
Thanks for the answer. How deep does a deep bowl need to be?

I'm also curious why you would want to use silica sand instead of the aragonite you would normally used.
1" minimum to 2" deep is fine.
Reason for not to use live sand, live rock, or any carbonate-based decorations is when you medicate with copper and/or other meds, this material interferes with the proper dosage. Also, if using copper, the life will die in the sand and the rock and cause a spike of ammonia and nitrite. For a sick fish, this can be near instant death. Silica sand doesn't cause any problems noted above.

Note: even though you dont really need sand in the QT and the fish can live in QT without sand without any ill effects. Also remove the sand when fish is out of QT.


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Current Tank Info: 350g DT,95g sump, 50g Frag tank, 4800gph return 4x Sea swirls. 6x AI Vega Color. 200# Pukani rock, dual recirculating skimmer, Biopellet, GFO Carbon rx's, Cal rx. Closed loop. 1.5hp chiller, genesis renew. Apex & RKE
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Old 09/17/2012, 02:36 AM   #77
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bnumair,

I just read through the entire thread and had a few questions.

I am in the process of purchasing all the items for my 300 Gallon build. I am going to be setting up a QT tank, but after reading the thread I am thinking about setting up a hospital tank as well.

Petco is doing their $1 per gallon sale until Sept 22, so I picked up a 20 Gallon Long for $20 today. But after reading this thread, I am wondering if I should go pick up another 20 gallon long as well before the sale ends.

I have the space next to the 300 Gallon to set up the 20 Gallon tanks on top of two shelving units which will be sitting on each side of the the DT . (actually, would look pretty cool with the to small tanks on each side of the DT)

Should a hospital tank be ran year round just like the QT tank?

Once my 300 gallon is set up, I will be transferring my fish from my current tank. All the fish look great, fat and seem very healthy.

I have a purple tang that every now and then will get a few specs that look like salt (2 to 5 specs) but they are gone the next day. I have very fine white sand in tank, and think that it might be that, since he is solid purple it is very easy to see some of these specs compared to the other fish in the tank.

I really want to make sure that I don't transfer anything bad into my new build. What do you recommend?


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Old 09/17/2012, 07:37 AM   #78
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what you are trying to do (1 QT and 1 Hospital) would be an ideal situation but for most average reefer is nearly impossible due to many reason. too many complications/cross contaminations, several sets of same tools (as you cannot mix them).
Its a job itself but if u think u can handle it, its a perfect setup.
To answer ur questions:
yes a hospital tank should be setup using shrimp method so its stable all the time and not requiring a lot of water changes and parameter swings. As hospital tank is needed for halfway dead/sick fish its best if water parameters dont change much.
this is all true unless u use copper then story changes. in copper treated tanks water changes will come into play.
Hospital tank once taken down after copper use will take longer to cycle unless cleaned and copper absorbed out of it. you can take the filter in sump approach and keep few handy to restart the hospital tank after taking/cleaning it down when needed.

On the tang for now QT it and watch it over 4-6 weeks for ich (will eliminate your suspicion of sand in a bare bottom tank). if it doesnt appear then ur good after 6 weeks but if it has an outbreak then u will need to either do hypo or copper or tank transfer. If u go with copper then there is a step by step guide how to administer copper based med on my blog and u can get there by clicking blue number under my name.

Note: personally i wouldnt keep multiple tanks. 1 Main and 1 QT.
QT can be switched back and forth between hospital and Qt. Remember QT is only medicated when there is a problem confirmed.


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Last edited by bnumair; 09/17/2012 at 07:44 AM.
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Old 09/17/2012, 03:47 PM   #79
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While this isn't TECHNICALLY a QT question, it deals with my QT, and you're a huge help, so here goes...

We've had our two clowns in the tank for 4 days now. All levels have kept in check for the most part. Today we checked the levels, and they were as follows:

pH: 8.0 - 8.2
Ammonia: 0.0 - 0.25 (in between, but def closer to 0.0)
Nitrite: 0
Nitrate: 5-10ppm
Salinity: 1.0245

My concern is obviously nitrate. This is the first time we've had an elevated reading of nitrate. Do we need to do a partial water change? The water hasn't yet been changed in the QT, but all levels have remained in check thus far. Thanks for the help!

-Matt


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Old 09/17/2012, 07:07 PM   #80
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mgproudfit View Post
My concern is obviously nitrate. This is the first time we've had an elevated reading of nitrate. Do we need to do a partial water change? The water hasn't yet been changed in the QT, but all levels have remained in check thus far. Thanks for the help!

-Matt
Hi Matt.
Nitrates are not a huge concern for fish in such low range. they wont be a problem till they start getting above 75ppm.
I am under the assumption that you placed few pieces of LR from ur existing tank. If so then nitrates is from the cycle the bacteria u imported with ur rock.
this is a good sign as bacteria is processing ammonia to nitrite and then to nitrates. Nitrates is always the last part of the cycle and it wont get exported out unless done manually with means of skimmer, denitrator, water changes etc.
But to answer ur question: its not enough to worry at this point. keep doing ur regular water changes as u do on weekly basis and dont let the nitrates climb above 30-40ppm.
If you dont see reduction in nitrates via regular water changes and u reach that 40ppm mark then start doing emergency larger water changes along with regular water changes.
hope this helps.


EDIT: it skipped my mind, lol getting old i guess... as nitrates increase chances for algae increases so keep up with weekly water changes and see if nitrates remain there but if they dont and start climbing do more frequent water changes unless u dont care scrubbing algea.


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Water Quality: NO3 0,Phos 0,Cal 440,Alk 7.5,Mag 1300

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Current Tank Info: 350g DT,95g sump, 50g Frag tank, 4800gph return 4x Sea swirls. 6x AI Vega Color. 200# Pukani rock, dual recirculating skimmer, Biopellet, GFO Carbon rx's, Cal rx. Closed loop. 1.5hp chiller, genesis renew. Apex & RKE
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Old 09/17/2012, 07:11 PM   #81
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Awesome, thanks a lot once again!


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Old 09/20/2012, 02:28 PM   #82
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Will having some live rock or ceramic media for bio lower copper levels if treating the QT proactively for ich? I'm setting up a 10 gallon QT. I'm am using a Marineland Biowheel 200, but I filled the chamber with just a lot of filter floss and one small (3") piece of live rock and a 3" square piece of Cermedia (which worked miracles in my koi pond, cycled in a week). I'm still using the bio wheel as well, but wanted to know if the live rock, cermedia (ceramic media) or filter floss will cause issues with maintaining copper at 0.5? I am not using carbon as I know it will absorb copper.


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Old 09/20/2012, 03:25 PM   #83
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yes some of it will be absorbed by the rock and floss. cemeric rings not as much. u will have to watch as u add copper slowly everyday. it wont cause any harm or problem as such but when u start dosing ur reading/testing results will not match as per manufacturer claims per dosage as some of the copper will be absorbed by items in ur tank.
So to over come that you will need to have a very good copper test kit and check ur levels.
once u reach 0.5 then it will hold there unless removed physically by means of curasorb or water changes.
The reason why most people dont recommend anything in hospital tank is due to the fact you dont know how much copper will get absorbed so u may end up using a lot more that recommended dosage.


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Current Tank Info: 350g DT,95g sump, 50g Frag tank, 4800gph return 4x Sea swirls. 6x AI Vega Color. 200# Pukani rock, dual recirculating skimmer, Biopellet, GFO Carbon rx's, Cal rx. Closed loop. 1.5hp chiller, genesis renew. Apex & RKE
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Old 09/20/2012, 03:33 PM   #84
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So once I do finally reach 0.5 it will stay there even with the live rock/filter floss in there? Or will I need to continue to check copper levels every day to make sure the levels don't drop? I plan on having the filter cycled so I don't need to do water changes much (hopefully) during the copper treatment. But, at the same time I don't want to have to test every single day for 6 months over a year(since I will be adding a new fish every 8 weeks for a year and the copper treatment will be for 4 weeks).

Would I be better off just removing the live rock and filter floss and just stuffing the HOB filter with the Cermedia? Then the only filter I would have would be the Cermedia and Bio Wheel (rated for 30-50 gallons on my 10 gallon tank).

Thanks for your help. This thread is Awesome!


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Old 09/20/2012, 06:10 PM   #85
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initially it will be difficult to judge exactly what ur levels are due to copper being soaked into rock etc. but once u reach ur level it should ideally stay there. but i would check levels atleast first few days after u reach 0.5 so to make sure ur tank is maintaining the required level and then maybe once every week or so.
I personally dont put anything in my QT/Hospital tank except ceramic rings and biowheel filter. i have this configuration on a 20 gal tank and i have never had any issues with it.


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Current Tank Info: 350g DT,95g sump, 50g Frag tank, 4800gph return 4x Sea swirls. 6x AI Vega Color. 200# Pukani rock, dual recirculating skimmer, Biopellet, GFO Carbon rx's, Cal rx. Closed loop. 1.5hp chiller, genesis renew. Apex & RKE
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Old 09/20/2012, 06:38 PM   #86
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It is settled then. I'm going to remove the filter floss and live rock and replace it with my cermedia. It will be interesting to see if my QT cycles as quickly as my koi pond that uses Cermedia. Though I won't use Cermedia in my DT as then I would have a nitrate problem, but it sounds like they will work in a QT. thanks for the help!


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Old 09/20/2012, 10:08 PM   #87
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It is settled then. I'm going to remove the filter floss and live rock and replace it with my cermedia. It will be interesting to see if my QT cycles as quickly as my koi pond that uses Cermedia. Though I won't use Cermedia in my DT as then I would have a nitrate problem, but it sounds like they will work in a QT. thanks for the help!
No problem. QT fish only nitrates shouldnt be a big deal till they get way up like in 100+ppm range. but with normal water changes u should be just fine.
remember with every water change ur copper level will go down so recheck and redose accordingly.
Also i would not recommend keeping qt at 0.5 copper all the time for 6 months.
I strongly recommend getting fish or 2 at a time slowly adding copper. i would stagger the dosage over several days to reach 0.5 as fish cant take copper very well and some will die. If you introduce fish right out 0.5 u will see more fatality rate.


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Water Quality: NO3 0,Phos 0,Cal 440,Alk 7.5,Mag 1300

"Reef Fast, You Crash, Reef Slow, You Pass" Mike's Reef 3:16

Current Tank Info: 350g DT,95g sump, 50g Frag tank, 4800gph return 4x Sea swirls. 6x AI Vega Color. 200# Pukani rock, dual recirculating skimmer, Biopellet, GFO Carbon rx's, Cal rx. Closed loop. 1.5hp chiller, genesis renew. Apex & RKE
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Old 09/21/2012, 09:14 AM   #88
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Thanks Bnumair. I plan on setting up a 8 week QT routine for each new fish with only 4 weeks of copper following your copper routine (after they start eating and prop treatment). So the QT will only have copper in it for 4 weeks every 8 weeks.


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Old 09/25/2012, 10:53 AM   #89
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Can you quarantine more than one fish at once? I plan on stocking one per 8 weeks, but would like to do two for the first go around and also in the future when I add two clowns. The two for the first go around I'm thinking Royal Gramma and Yellow Watchman Goby.


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Old 09/25/2012, 12:50 PM   #90
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you can quarantine more than 1 fish at a time depending on the size of tank you have and their temprament.
2 clowns will be ok in qt at same time and royal gramma and watchman goby can also be qt'ed at same time. at worse in some aggressive fish i divide the tank lengthwise with a egg crate. there is a pic in earlier post. this way gives more room for fish to swim and no fights among fish.


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Water Quality: NO3 0,Phos 0,Cal 440,Alk 7.5,Mag 1300

"Reef Fast, You Crash, Reef Slow, You Pass" Mike's Reef 3:16

Current Tank Info: 350g DT,95g sump, 50g Frag tank, 4800gph return 4x Sea swirls. 6x AI Vega Color. 200# Pukani rock, dual recirculating skimmer, Biopellet, GFO Carbon rx's, Cal rx. Closed loop. 1.5hp chiller, genesis renew. Apex & RKE
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Old 09/25/2012, 12:55 PM   #91
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I saw the divider which is a fantastic idea. Would my 10 gallon QT be ok for two? They would be under 2" each.


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Old 09/25/2012, 01:40 PM   #92
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sure they will be fine.


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Water Quality: NO3 0,Phos 0,Cal 440,Alk 7.5,Mag 1300

"Reef Fast, You Crash, Reef Slow, You Pass" Mike's Reef 3:16

Current Tank Info: 350g DT,95g sump, 50g Frag tank, 4800gph return 4x Sea swirls. 6x AI Vega Color. 200# Pukani rock, dual recirculating skimmer, Biopellet, GFO Carbon rx's, Cal rx. Closed loop. 1.5hp chiller, genesis renew. Apex & RKE
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Old 10/05/2012, 02:55 PM   #93
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Thanks for the info, I think my two new black clowns have ich so into the QT tank they will go.


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Old 10/05/2012, 07:03 PM   #94
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Thanks for the info, I think my two new black clowns have ich so into the QT tank they will go.
oh i am sorry to hear about the clowns, but thanks for ur kinds words about the forum. if u decide to use copper based medication goto my blog by clicking blue number under my name and follow along to another forum there called Guide on how to treat fish with copper based meds. hope to hear ur clowns doing good soon.


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Water Quality: NO3 0,Phos 0,Cal 440,Alk 7.5,Mag 1300

"Reef Fast, You Crash, Reef Slow, You Pass" Mike's Reef 3:16

Current Tank Info: 350g DT,95g sump, 50g Frag tank, 4800gph return 4x Sea swirls. 6x AI Vega Color. 200# Pukani rock, dual recirculating skimmer, Biopellet, GFO Carbon rx's, Cal rx. Closed loop. 1.5hp chiller, genesis renew. Apex & RKE
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Old 10/05/2012, 07:07 PM   #95
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here is a link for people that would like to know more about how to treat with copper.
Remember copper is not for all fish and is very harmful or fatal even in low quantities.
please do ur research on what type of fish your treating.
also cupramine (what i use) is a powerful med and the directions are very aggressive. please read through my blog to see how to over come the aggressiveness of the medicine.
Thanks

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/sh...1#post20614751


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Water Quality: NO3 0,Phos 0,Cal 440,Alk 7.5,Mag 1300

"Reef Fast, You Crash, Reef Slow, You Pass" Mike's Reef 3:16

Current Tank Info: 350g DT,95g sump, 50g Frag tank, 4800gph return 4x Sea swirls. 6x AI Vega Color. 200# Pukani rock, dual recirculating skimmer, Biopellet, GFO Carbon rx's, Cal rx. Closed loop. 1.5hp chiller, genesis renew. Apex & RKE
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Old 10/05/2012, 07:15 PM   #96
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Bnumair,

Does a Randall's Goby need the bowl of sand during quarantine? Or is the bare bottom fine?


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Old 10/05/2012, 07:35 PM   #97
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Bnumair,

Does a Randall's Goby need the bowl of sand during quarantine? Or is the bare bottom fine?
i personally run QT bare no matter what fish it is. place it in a bare bottom QT and if shows signs of stress and shyness then u can always add a bowl of sand.


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Water Quality: NO3 0,Phos 0,Cal 440,Alk 7.5,Mag 1300

"Reef Fast, You Crash, Reef Slow, You Pass" Mike's Reef 3:16

Current Tank Info: 350g DT,95g sump, 50g Frag tank, 4800gph return 4x Sea swirls. 6x AI Vega Color. 200# Pukani rock, dual recirculating skimmer, Biopellet, GFO Carbon rx's, Cal rx. Closed loop. 1.5hp chiller, genesis renew. Apex & RKE
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Old 10/05/2012, 08:06 PM   #98
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i personally run QT bare no matter what fish it is. place it in a bare bottom QT and if shows signs of stress and shyness then u can always add a bowl of sand.
Gotcha. Just put him in there so I'll see if he opens up in the next couple of days. He's shy right now. This thread has been extremely helpful.

Do you have suggestions on how much water to change after copper treatments. For example, after I run copper at .3-.4 for 4 weeks then do I do a 50% WC at the end of week 4? Is that the only WC I do or do I do another 50% WC 2 days later? Do I add cuprisorb and carbon at the start of week 5 or the middle of week 5 to get all the copper out over that 5th week? Sorry for all the questions.

Also after 1 week prazipro treatment do I just do one 50% then I can start copper or do I need to do multiple WCs?

This all assume ammonia is staying at zero. Thanks for your help.


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Old 10/05/2012, 08:18 PM   #99
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after prazi i would do few 50% WC will take it all out and run carbon. then when you start cupramine take carbon out. run copper for 4 weeks and then start doing water changes in 5th week. i would do 3-5 50% WC and then run cuprisorb and carbon to get all the copper out.
note: in a 20 gal tank it will take 7 x 50% WC to get a 100% pure(new) water.
Week % Pure
1 50% 50%
2 75% 25%
3 88% 13%
4 94% 7%
5 97% 4%
6 99% 2%
7 100% 1%


__________________
Water Quality: NO3 0,Phos 0,Cal 440,Alk 7.5,Mag 1300

"Reef Fast, You Crash, Reef Slow, You Pass" Mike's Reef 3:16

Current Tank Info: 350g DT,95g sump, 50g Frag tank, 4800gph return 4x Sea swirls. 6x AI Vega Color. 200# Pukani rock, dual recirculating skimmer, Biopellet, GFO Carbon rx's, Cal rx. Closed loop. 1.5hp chiller, genesis renew. Apex & RKE

Last edited by bnumair; 10/05/2012 at 09:14 PM.
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Old 10/05/2012, 08:36 PM   #100
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Very helpful! Do you have to get the QT tank to zero copper before you transfer the fish to the main tank or can you transfer right after the 4th week or would that be too much of a shock?

Also how many weeks of prazipro do you run? I read somewhere on here that some did 1 week of prazipro before copper and 1 week after copper. Also would it make sense to just do 2 weeks straight of prazipro so you aren't switching back and forth between medications. Unless of course that is the point, to spread out prazipro treatments.


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