Anyone Thinking of Dumping LEDS and going back to Halides

[alton]

Mike FWIW I run 3 x 250w MH on my 300DD and grow green birdsnest in the front right corner of the tank and cap in the back. I am not sure if your tank is 36" tall or 28"? If it is 36", then 400's would be the trick.

[Mike S]

Thanks the tank is 28 inches tall and 36 inches deep. Similiar dimensions to the 300dd. I figure that if I end up getting dimmable ballasts I can always jump up to 400 watt bulbs if needed. From my preliminary reading there seems to be almost as much debate when it comes to ballast types lol.

[hart24601]

I will throw my experiences in here. I have always liked nano tanks and have kept several over the years. To me personally, I love LEDs for these systems. I like the adjustability with intensity and color, and the lower heat in the smaller systems is really nice. Sure nanos can/have been done with just about every lighting imaginable, but LEDs make it so easy to get as much PAR as you could ever want without tons of heat or huge fixtures. Heck, my biocube 14 with a custom steves led kit measured 3000 PAR 1” under the surface cranked up. I of course don’t run it nearly that high, but was shocked it had that amount of power.

I have a 65 with a center brace that I put two reefbreeders value fixtures on. Obviously this is overkill, but I can always repurpose the lights for my carnivorous plant collections if or when I decide to get a larger tank. With those two units the coverage is great and I am very happy with my $400 lighting. I do love not changing bulbs, but that is because I am lazy and I hate spending money on maintenance like that and tend to push it off.

In a technology driven hobby like this everyone wants a clear cut answer for what is “best” but what is “best” is not clear cut. Right now quality varies tremendously between LED systems and with different corals appearing vary in their growth with some liking halide and some growing faster under LED it’s really more of a subjective call anymore.

As others have said if you like T5, or halide and your colors are doing well then stick with it. Personally I will never go back to those lighting systems. I am not a ultrafancy reefkeeper so take my advice with a grain of salt. I do like being able to adjust the LED colors whenever I want. Some weeks I want more blue, or crank the violet. I have even rearranged the corals in my cube based on fluorescence under heavy blue when I wanted a change and needed to frag them anyway. I like having that option without having to buy a new bulb. I also like that if I want to sell all my coral I could have a mushroom/zoa garden tank just by dimming the lights, or I can put clams in there and have more PAR than the sun! Below are my two systems, I have made livestock changes since then, but I like having a general PAR guide. Like I said nothing ultrafancy, but I like them!

[sirreal63]

Originally Posted by Mike S

Thanks the tank is 28 inches tall and 36 inches deep. Similiar dimensions to the 300dd. I figure that if I end up getting dimmable ballasts I can always jump up to 400 watt bulbs if needed. From my preliminary reading there seems to be almost as much debate when it comes to ballast types lol.

The 250's will be plenty but be sure to get pendants that spread instead of spotlighting. Keep the T5's to add to the light and it will be a great combination. Hamilton still makes some large reflectors that will give the spread for the 36" depth or may be able to find some full size LumenArc's used that will also do well.

[mayjong]

i'm the opposite, dumping mh and going to led.
had a 150 with 2 @250 mh and t-5. liked it, hated replacing bulbs and worse was the heat (im in CA)
moved and downsized to a 39g cube with retro leds, liked it but too small, loved the color and growth of the leds.
bought a 60g cube that came with mh, again with the heat and i really missed the ability to adjust color! and bulbs... switched out to a reefbreeders photon. love it!
just bought 2 more photons for my other 150g, too.
i can't see myself going back.
-ever-
btw, the photons have -0- disco ball seperation of color. imho sps growth is slower under led, zoas are faster , lps is about the same (except acans, which i have no experience with)

just a funny observation- when i/we use mh, there is no "sunrise- sunset" mode , except whatever supplemental lights we have coming on before the halides. then i/we get led's and JUST HAVE to have a smooth 3 hour long transition from sunrise to midday to sunset. some pay TONS of money in led for it. if your fixture doesnt have a smooth transition it isn't "real "enough for the corals...funny...
i'll stick to my adjustments every hour that the photon lets me do (or 1/2 hour)

[Uncle Salty 05]

Originally Posted by Magickiwi

Call it what you want, it's a threat. And it's not truthful if you fail to include information like "Hey I kept this thing for almost two years but felt for some reason that the retailer should have given me my money back". But hey, what kind of impact would a voice like yours have anyway...

A two way street would be a reasonable amount of time to return a product you aren't satisfied with.

Say what you want, I'm finished giving you your dose of common sense.

Hey junior, are you really unable to read?
On what planet did I not disclose the information about how long I have had the fixture?
When I want a dose of common sense from someone that doesn't know a nitrosonoma from a nitrobacter without googling it, I will ask for it.
Just from your demeanor I am willing to bet I am at least twice your age, you remind me of myself when I was young and ignorant.
I don't want to make the Mods mad, so this will be my last post in this thead, I am unsubscribing from it. If you would like to continue this conversation via PM, bring it!

[stancfii]

[QUOTE=power boat jim;22483016]

Originally Posted by AcroporAddict

Good point, that would be more accurate.

My apologies, that is what I was referring to.

[FastUno]

I can't believe this. Sweet success on 2+ years with AI SOLS? I don't get it....I wrote these LED's off.

Full thread can be accessed here:

http://www.manhattanreefs.com/forum/...hallow-17.html


Maybe with most corals it is about the husbandry?

[grigsy]

Or it could turn out and look like this?

Originally Posted by graha321

I had the first version of AI lights. I received them when they were already a little over a year old. I had 6 modules over a 5ft tank. My reef was previously thriving under T5s the only thing I changed was the light. Things I observed: decreased calcification, browning of corals, LPS didn't expand tissue as well, decreasing intensity of the light, at least 15 bulbs burned out by the 2 year mark. I had these lights for one year over my tank and it looked terrible. I finally switched back to T5 (again, the only change). One year later, my tank is finally doing well. Maybe these were flaws from the first models of AI, I can't be sure. I just know that my husbandry skills are top notch and the only changes I made were to the lighting. Another member of our club also had the same experience with bulbs burning out. They offered to fix them for $250 per module. I didn't feel like spending another $1500 on lights that were already so expensive. Obviously LEDs work on some people's tanks. They certainly didn't work on mine or several other of my club members.

LED par values after 2 years, running at 100% intensity:



Burned out bulbs:

To each his own. Personally, I am happier using metal halides.

Heck my ballasts alone have lasted now 10+ years. I am not so sure most of the LED fixtures that are out there now will do the same.

[Aqualund]

Um, the sps have barely grown in a year, the coloration is off, and the polyp extension is half of what it should be.

All of the LPS look great and do their job beautifully. This is also a very beautiful tank.

If you are going to post tanks and try to win over this crowd, you're going to have to do better than that (I'm an led user and proponent).

All of the proponents here of MH have seen inch frags of any sps become softball sized in a year and have amazing colors and PE to boot. So anyone trying to show off LEDs as an alternative and win...would have to show just exactly that...not a bunch of off colored sps and independently colorful lps.

[JPMagyar]

Originally Posted by FastUno

I can't believe this. Sweet success on 2+ years with AI SOLS? I don't get it....I wrote these LED's off.

Please forgive my frank and perhaps terse manner, but honestly I don't understand why you keep posting pictures of LED tanks in this thread. It's not on topic. This thread is about people who tried LED and didn't like the results they got.

As to the exact post above I would say that the photos you show above are heavily doctored because I guarantee that AI light did not provide the necessary color quality for a camera. Modern digital cameras use sensors that are extremely sensitive to LED light hence the lack of good LED tank photos, and those photos were taken with secondary lighting or doctored after shooting. I'd stake my life on that fact. Secondarily the pictures are not progression shots. Go back to my post #1759 and take a long hard look at what MH can do to grow a reef from frags to full tank. When not one, not two, but many tanks start to show that kind of longterm success then old time reefers will begin to accept LEDs as a possibility. Anyone can buy a bunch of pretty corals especially LPS and zoos and take nice pictures of a decorated aquarium. That's not the same as showing multiyear growth of a frag. Why not go over and look at my progression shots on several corals and then look for similar photos from an LED tank. You won't find a single one.



Do you work for an LED manufacturer? Are you an LED salesman? Why are you so keen on pointing out what you perceive as success with LEDs in a thread titled "Anyone Thinking of Dumpling LEDs"? If you want to sing the praises of LEDs I believe there is a thread titled something like "Yes, show your success with LEDs" or something similar. Why not post your links over there?









My OT in 2003



My OT in 2011



My Purple Monster in 2007



My 2 Colonies in 2011

[James77]

Originally Posted by FastUno

Is that 2 years of growth on that LED tank? If so, compare it to 2 years of halide growth on JPMagyars tank:

Originally Posted by JPMagyar

April 2008


April 2010

I know he just did a simlar thing that I did...but the differnece is quite noticeable. Show me a few LED tanks that have that kind of color and growth, with halides they are quite common.

[power boat jim]

Ok, after listening to you guys for what seems like forever on this thread, I have gone and hung one 400 w MH over the center of the tank replacing 2 of my leds.Im running a 14 month old 20k coralife bulb. Cant say the tank looks any better. I have in the box a new 20k radium but it doesnt match the two ends of the tank where the leds are still running.

I dont know which bulb would be better in the long run. So here is the question how long do you guys think it will take to improve colors if it is at all possible. I did put the corals that were not doing as well under the leds under the MH. It includes the red planet, two dragons, a milie and a prostrata (I think that what it is.) I just hope I dont regret this by trashing a bunch of decent corals with the change.

[Aqualund]

you'll have a bad time with the 14k bulb...I would replace it with the 20k...and then just make sure your par isn't insane under the MH. There's no telling how quickly they will respond in either direction...but please take pictures and post your results!

[James77]

Originally Posted by power boat jim

Ok, after listening to you guys for what seems like forever on this thread, I have gone and hung one 400 w MH over the center of the tank replacing 2 of my leds.Im running a 14 month old 20k coralife bulb. Cant say the tank looks any better. I have in the box a new 20k radium but it doesnt match the two ends of the tank where the leds are still running.

I dont know which bulb would be better in the long run. So here is the question how long do you guys think it will take to improve colors if it is at all possible. I did put the corals that were not doing as well under the leds under the MH. It includes the red planet, two dragons, a milie and a prostrata (I think that what it is.) I just hope I dont regret this by trashing a bunch of decent corals with the change.

I'd give the radium a shot....it might look different, but its just to test out and see what happens

It'll be interesting to see, but I'd be surprised if you dindt see result within a months time.

[sirreal63]

What reflector Jim?

[FastUno]

Geeee, just trying to learn from the masters who have more experience with LED's & MH systems. I have seen horrific corals, all white & bleached under the same lights at my LFS & I am shocked.


I really don't understand how well these corals are doing in this tank. It defies what I know about those particular model LED's.


What I found to be great tanks with LED's, you guys are pointing out great detail that I would have not normally picked up on. I am beginning to see more & more where you are coming from. Where else am I going to get this type of feedback from if not here? Seems like if you are looking for the best then MH or MH/T5 is the way to go & if you are willing to compromise then LED is the alternative as it stands now.

[power boat jim]

Originally Posted by sirreal63

What reflector Jim?

Its an old pfo light with a spider reflector.

[sirreal63]

Ok, it should not be a problem but I may shorten the photoperiod for a week or so.

[power boat jim]

Originally Posted by James77

I'd give the radium a shot....it might look different, but its just to test out and see what happens

It'll be interesting to see, but I'd be surprised if you dindt see result within a months time.

Ok I will switch it out and put up with the kind of strange looking tank for a while.

Jack, I already did that. I will give it a month and see what happens. Let me know if you guy have any other suggestions. It really better help some since I really hate the way it looks right now. The things I do for science

[sirreal63]

Watch them, you may need to adjust it more, you will be throwing some spectrum at them that they haven't seen in a while. You may see changes sooner than a month if they were struggling before. If it were me I would also feed a little heavier as well for a little while.

[power boat jim]

Originally Posted by Aqualund

you'll have a bad time with the 14k bulb...I would replace it with the 20k...and then just make sure your par isn't insane under the MH. There's no telling how quickly they will respond in either direction...but please take pictures and post your results!

I will try and get some pics when my son gets home next week, he has the stuff to do it I cant. Sirreal63 will probably end up making them visable in some way to the rest of Reef Central.

The leds have far more par then the MH. The leds were over 1400 and the mh were 900-1000 near the surface.

[sirreal63]

They have more par in a much more narrow range, the corals are adjusted to your current spectrum but you will be putting some back at them they may not be used to, it may be worth it to be cautious.

[stancfii]

I'm sure most of you have seen tdb320reef's thread. He has/had LEDs and added Radiums into the mix for color. I think he ended up dimming his white LEDs to about 10%.

http://reefcentral.com/forums/showpo...&postcount=124

[Uncle Salty 05]

I know I said I wasn't going to post here again, but I said I would tell you the outcome and I am a man of my word.
Proline Aquatics in BC (distributor for Vertx) has agreed to have me send my light back to them (at their expense) and either get it working perfectly or send me a new fixture.
Jen, the warranty person for Proline has gone above and beyond in her efforts to help me. Their customer service is exceptional.
We have been working on resolving my issues for over a month now and Jen was there for me every step of the way.
That being said, I still want to go back to MH.
If anybody wants an excellent LED fixture at a reasonably negotiable price please PM me and we can work something out.