Espresso stain on pine

Optimist1979 · 03/15/2013, 02:47 PM

Hello. I wanted to ask some of you woodworkers your opinion on stains. I'm having a pine stand built for a 75 gallon. I'd like an even, dark espresso finish. I was wondering what stain works best for you for what I'm trying to achieve. I'm considering two options:

1) general finish gel stain - Java (I've heard good reviews of this gel stain on pine)
2) Miniwax polyshade - espresso satin (after pretreating wood with minwax conditioner)

I had planned to buy some of these stains and test them out on a piece of unfinished pine. But maybe I should save that money and put it into upgrading the wood to something that takes in stains better (i dunno, oak, ash, chestnut, walnut)

Any other suggestions? I like the look of stain, but fully appreciating the grain isn't a huge priority. Would painting it a satin dark brown/black turn out ok?

NanoReefWanabe · 03/15/2013, 04:18 PM

i would skin it/ build it with poplar/ birch or maple...all very smooth grain, and easy to come by...and by far these three will give you he smoothest most even finish...pine doesnt take stain worth a poop, even after conditioning it...

gone fishin · 03/15/2013, 04:30 PM

With pine I think I would just paint it. If you are going to use a nice hardwood I would leave it natural and rub on some tung or teak oil with several coats. If I was going to stain it I would go with oak. You could use your current stand as a template if you wanted to build another. Just my 2 cents.

sleepydoc · 03/15/2013, 06:12 PM

All of those woods can blotch (take stain unevenly). I'd consider using a preconditioned like dewaxed shellac or this

Indymann99 · 03/15/2013, 06:21 PM

My cabinet guy used cabinet grade Poplar with a 2 step stain process. Cherry stain allowed to dry, the Chocolate stain over the top of the Cherry.

We liked the dark but not "black" look.

http://i300.photobucket.com/albums/n...ement52009.jpg

http://i300.photobucket.com/albums/n...ankCabOpen.jpg

http://i300.photobucket.com/albums/n...ann99/Bar2.jpg

If you want the espresso "black" look with Pine I would prime and paint it.

rovster · 03/15/2013, 07:22 PM

This is my QT stand. Used a Miniwax stain + satin poly. Mostly pine. Used leftover birch ply for the door, but door frame is pine. I think it was called Jacobean. I'm not wood worker, but turned out pretty nice. My first DIY wood project.

woodnaquanut · 03/15/2013, 07:42 PM

Of the two stains you mentioned, the Gel will give a more consistent color.

Pine is a very 'in your face' wood. Big grain pattern, knots and hard to do blotch free stain job. If you are having the stand made, ask your cabinet maker for suggestions. Most woodworkers have lots of scraps available for testing. It's a whole lot less expensive to choose the wood and stain BEFORE it's made.

If what you are looking for is more of a dark stand with very little wood character, pine is the opposite of this. Something like Poplar would be better and easier to work with.

Although it's nice for folks to post pictures, it's really hard to tell from an internet pic just how the wood looks. Color is one thing but some woods have distinctive grain patterns that only show up well in person.

doakota1 · 03/15/2013, 07:43 PM

I have been a high end wood finisher for the last 15 years, my stand is made out of pine veneer plywood, if you apply a good coat of wood conditioner you will be able to achieve a nice even stain job. this is my stand

Birch or Maple will not take stain very well, it will be very blotchy even with a wood conditioner. the grain is very tight in those two, you will also have a hard time trying to get it dark

autodave · 03/15/2013, 08:37 PM

I use the General Finishes "Espresso" waterbase stain, then use General Finishes High Performance waterbase clear,tinted (about 10%)with the "Espresso" stain for the topcoat to achieve a consistent color. This will work fine on pine.

Optimist1979 · 03/15/2013, 09:11 PM

Thanks for all your recommendations. They have not started to build the stand yet so I still have the freedom to choose a different wood. I haven't bought too many custom stands so I can't tell if the builder is some kind of master woodworker. I've seen his "basic" stand and I'm happy with the quality. He did say I could find a stain and would work with me to get the results I wanted. Early next week I'll be going to my LFS to see a sample of his espresso finish work. I want to make sure be ready with some ideas or back up plans if I decide to go a different route.

Nano - I'll look more into poplar. It seems like others are recommending the same thing

Indymann - I would be very happy if my stand turned out like your cabinets. wow. Good idea with the 2 step stain.

Rovster - Nice job on the stand. Did you use a preconditioner also?

Woodnaquanut - The main reason I chose pine because it was the cheapest (without having to build it with MDF). I'll look into poplar though, hopefully it won't be too much of a price difference.

Doakota - I like the even finish on your stand. Is it possible to replicate that with a darker finish?

Optimist1979 · 03/15/2013, 09:22 PM

So I don't really know anything about stains. Quick google search shows that water stains have beter color retention, breathable, and oil is better durability. Any of this true or applicable to staining a reef tank stand? For some reason I haven't considered a water based stain. It certainly does open up color options.

rovster · 03/16/2013, 05:42 AM

Yes, used conditioner. Necessary IMHO.

doakota1 · 03/16/2013, 08:06 AM

Doakota - I like the even finish on your stand. Is it possible to replicate that with a darker finish?

Yes you can achieve a darker finish on pine. after applying a good coat of conditioner, you then can apply a grain popper, its a 1 to 1 mix of denatured alcohol and water. once applied it opens the grain of the wood allowing the stain to penetrate deeper into the pores and allows a nice dark even color

jlanger · 03/16/2013, 08:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sleepydoc

All of those woods can blotch (take stain unevenly). I'd consider using a preconditioned like dewaxed shellac or this

Using a pre-conditioner for pine, birch, maple or poplar is a must for an evenly stained finish.
Which wood you decide to go with is entirely up to you.

Birch will give you the best results for an evenly stained finish with some wood grain showing.
Maple just doesn't stain well; even pre-conditioned. For the cost of maple, it's better to use birch.
Pine will give you a much different grain pattern showing up through the stain. If you like open grain and knots, choose pine.
Poplar will work well, but you need to make sure it's all one color. Poplar has a very stark contrast in the wood's color. From being very white to tan to green. This will show through the stain.

Test the stain on the different wood samples to see what you like best.
Good luck.

lewk · 03/16/2013, 02:09 PM

From what I've read, gel stains work well on pine to prevent blotching. I've used the java stain before on poplar and it came out very even. Didn't need any conditioners.

Check out any of the finishing books or articles by Bob Flexner. He knows his stuff.

03/15/2013, 02:47 PM	#1
Optimist1979 Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2013 Location: California Posts: 24	Espresso stain on pine Hello. I wanted to ask some of you woodworkers your opinion on stains. I'm having a pine stand built for a 75 gallon. I'd like an even, dark espresso finish. I was wondering what stain works best for you for what I'm trying to achieve. I'm considering two options: 1) general finish gel stain - Java (I've heard good reviews of this gel stain on pine) 2) Miniwax polyshade - espresso satin (after pretreating wood with minwax conditioner) I had planned to buy some of these stains and test them out on a piece of unfinished pine. But maybe I should save that money and put it into upgrading the wood to something that takes in stains better (i dunno, oak, ash, chestnut, walnut) Any other suggestions? I like the look of stain, but fully appreciating the grain isn't a huge priority. Would painting it a satin dark brown/black turn out ok?

03/15/2013, 04:30 PM	#3
gone fishin Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: Wyocena Wi Posts: 6,936	With pine I think I would just paint it. If you are going to use a nice hardwood I would leave it natural and rub on some tung or teak oil with several coats. If I was going to stain it I would go with oak. You could use your current stand as a template if you wanted to build another. Just my 2 cents. __________________ Tony Current Tank Info: 180gal DT, BM NAC77 skimmer,3 Maxspect razors, Maxspect Gyre 150, 30g QT

03/15/2013, 06:12 PM	#4
sleepydoc Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2011 Location: Minneapolis, MN Posts: 3,907	All of those woods can blotch (take stain unevenly). I'd consider using a preconditioned like dewaxed shellac or this __________________ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ 120 gallon, coast to coast overflow w/beananimal overflow. Waveline DC 10000 II return pump, 40 gal sump, Octopus XS200 skimmer, T5 lighting

03/15/2013, 06:21 PM	#5
Indymann99 Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Indianapolis Posts: 2,447	My cabinet guy used cabinet grade Poplar with a 2 step stain process. Cherry stain allowed to dry, the Chocolate stain over the top of the Cherry. We liked the dark but not "black" look. http://i300.photobucket.com/albums/n...ement52009.jpg http://i300.photobucket.com/albums/n...ankCabOpen.jpg http://i300.photobucket.com/albums/n...ann99/Bar2.jpg If you want the espresso "black" look with Pine I would prime and paint it. __________________ 120g DT 100lbs LR / 200 lbs LS, 45g fuge, VectraM1 Return, Herbie drain, 4x RW-8, 2x AI Hydra 26 w AWM, ASM G2, Apex controller, Apex BoB w floats ATO

03/15/2013, 07:43 PM	#8
doakota1 Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: upstate n.y. Posts: 329	I have been a high end wood finisher for the last 15 years, my stand is made out of pine veneer plywood, if you apply a good coat of wood conditioner you will be able to achieve a nice even stain job. this is my stand Birch or Maple will not take stain very well, it will be very blotchy even with a wood conditioner. the grain is very tight in those two, you will also have a hard time trying to get it dark __________________ The Bitterness of poor quality lingers long after the sweetness of low price is forgotten current tank info 48x24x18 starphire rimless from miracles swc 160 extreme : marc melev m style sump 36x22x16 ATI 8x39 power module :Ecotech Marine Vortech MP40w ES pump Apex controller Current Tank Info: new 90 gal build Last edited by doakota1; 03/15/2013 at 08:10 PM.

03/15/2013, 04:18 PM	#2
NanoReefWanabe Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Barrie, Ontario, Canada Posts: 6,639	i would skin it/ build it with poplar/ birch or maple...all very smooth grain, and easy to come by...and by far these three will give you he smoothest most even finish...pine doesnt take stain worth a poop, even after conditioning it...

03/15/2013, 07:22 PM	#6
rovster Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Miramar, FL Posts: 7,518	This is my QT stand. Used a Miniwax stain + satin poly. Mostly pine. Used leftover birch ply for the door, but door frame is pine. I think it was called Jacobean. I'm not wood worker, but turned out pretty nice. My first DIY wood project.

03/15/2013, 07:42 PM	#7
woodnaquanut Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2011 Location: Santa Rosa, CA Posts: 2,727	Of the two stains you mentioned, the Gel will give a more consistent color. Pine is a very 'in your face' wood. Big grain pattern, knots and hard to do blotch free stain job. If you are having the stand made, ask your cabinet maker for suggestions. Most woodworkers have lots of scraps available for testing. It's a whole lot less expensive to choose the wood and stain BEFORE it's made. If what you are looking for is more of a dark stand with very little wood character, pine is the opposite of this. Something like Poplar would be better and easier to work with. Although it's nice for folks to post pictures, it's really hard to tell from an internet pic just how the wood looks. Color is one thing but some woods have distinctive grain patterns that only show up well in person.

03/15/2013, 08:37 PM	#9
autodave Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Menifee,Ca. Posts: 484	I use the General Finishes "Espresso" waterbase stain, then use General Finishes High Performance waterbase clear,tinted (about 10%)with the "Espresso" stain for the topcoat to achieve a consistent color. This will work fine on pine.

03/15/2013, 09:11 PM	#10
Optimist1979 Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2013 Location: California Posts: 24	Thanks for all your recommendations. They have not started to build the stand yet so I still have the freedom to choose a different wood. I haven't bought too many custom stands so I can't tell if the builder is some kind of master woodworker. I've seen his "basic" stand and I'm happy with the quality. He did say I could find a stain and would work with me to get the results I wanted. Early next week I'll be going to my LFS to see a sample of his espresso finish work. I want to make sure be ready with some ideas or back up plans if I decide to go a different route. Nano - I'll look more into poplar. It seems like others are recommending the same thing Indymann - I would be very happy if my stand turned out like your cabinets. wow. Good idea with the 2 step stain. Rovster - Nice job on the stand. Did you use a preconditioner also? Woodnaquanut - The main reason I chose pine because it was the cheapest (without having to build it with MDF). I'll look into poplar though, hopefully it won't be too much of a price difference. Doakota - I like the even finish on your stand. Is it possible to replicate that with a darker finish?

03/15/2013, 09:22 PM	#11
Optimist1979 Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2013 Location: California Posts: 24	So I don't really know anything about stains. Quick google search shows that water stains have beter color retention, breathable, and oil is better durability. Any of this true or applicable to staining a reef tank stand? For some reason I haven't considered a water based stain. It certainly does open up color options.

03/16/2013, 05:42 AM	#12
rovster Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Miramar, FL Posts: 7,518	Yes, used conditioner. Necessary IMHO.

03/16/2013, 08:06 AM	#13
doakota1 Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: upstate n.y. Posts: 329	Doakota - I like the even finish on your stand. Is it possible to replicate that with a darker finish? Yes you can achieve a darker finish on pine. after applying a good coat of conditioner, you then can apply a grain popper, its a 1 to 1 mix of denatured alcohol and water. once applied it opens the grain of the wood allowing the stain to penetrate deeper into the pores and allows a nice dark even color __________________ The Bitterness of poor quality lingers long after the sweetness of low price is forgotten current tank info 48x24x18 starphire rimless from miracles swc 160 extreme : marc melev m style sump 36x22x16 ATI 8x39 power module :Ecotech Marine Vortech MP40w ES pump Apex controller Current Tank Info: new 90 gal build

03/16/2013, 02:09 PM	#15
lewk Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Austin Posts: 163	From what I've read, gel stains work well on pine to prevent blotching. I've used the java stain before on poplar and it came out very even. Didn't need any conditioners. Check out any of the finishing books or articles by Bob Flexner. He knows his stuff.