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Unread 04/04/2013, 05:30 PM   #1
blajoie
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The End of our Hobby as we know it!

Thanks to AI for alerting me to this proposed NOAA rule.
(perhaps you have all seen this, but after a quick search I could not find anything)

- TEXT FROM AQUA ILLUMINATION http://www.aquaillumination.com/ -

Our hobby is in jeopardy.

NOAA proposal threatens to earmark 83 species of coral as endangered.

What does that mean for us? The end of our hobby as we know it.

Imagine if we could no longer buy, sell, trade, or even remove and replace any number of very common aquarium species we have in our systems. Nearly all common stony corals including many of our favorite Acropora, Montipora, Porites, Pocillopora, Seriatopora, Pectinia, Pavona and Millepora species. In addition many of our favorite large polyp stony species such as Hammer coral, Frogspawn and Candy Cane corals will be illegal to even grow and share with your friends.

This would make no distinction between wild collected, maricultured, farmed, or aquacultured. The result is it could be a felony to give a branch of Hammer Coral to a friend, punishable by up to a $50,000 fine and 1 year in jail for doing so.

Help us fight! We only have until APRIL 6th to file opposition! That is only a few days away, please take the time to send feedback today!

To register your opposition to this regulation:

Electronic Submissions: Click below and complete the required fields, and enter or attach your comments.

http://www.regulations.gov/#!submitComment;D=NOAA-NMFS-2010-0036-0469


Postal Mail Submissions:
Regulatory Branch Chief
Protected Resources Division National Marine Fisheries Service Pacific Islands Regional Office 1601 Kapiolani Blvd. Suite 1110 Honolulu, HI 96814
Attn: 82 Coral Species proposed listing
or
Assistant Regional Administrator Protected Resources Division National Marine Fisheries Service Southeast Regional Office 263 13th Avenue South
Saint Petersburg, FL 33701
Attn: 82 Coral Species proposed listing

Fax submissions:
808-973-2941: Attn: Protected Resources Regulatory Branch Chief
or
727-824-5309: Attn: Protected Resources Assistant Regional Administrator

Copies of relevant documents:

http://www.nmfs.noaa.gov/pr/species/...tes/corals.htm

http://www.nmfs.noaa.gov/stories/2012/11/82corals.html

US NOAA Coral Species Listing II_ALT

______________________________________________



-

Have your voices heard before this absurd rule is passed into law.



Last edited by BlueCorn; 04/04/2013 at 07:05 PM.
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Unread 04/04/2013, 05:33 PM   #2
Drae
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Endangered? ! Coral reefs are thriving I thought?


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Unread 04/04/2013, 05:34 PM   #3
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far from thriving.certain sections,yes. but as a whole, nope


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Unread 04/04/2013, 05:39 PM   #4
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If it is really necessary to do this for the future of the worlds reefs so be it. I would just hope they would modify it so that tank raised stuff would be kosher to trade and sell.


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Unread 04/04/2013, 06:01 PM   #5
blajoie
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Quote:
Originally Posted by whiteshark View Post
If it is really necessary to do this for the future of the worlds reefs so be it. I would just hope they would modify it so that tank raised stuff would be kosher to trade and sell.
They are not going to modify anything unless you stand up and let them know you oppose this bill in its current form. We have TWO DAYS left to take action.


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Unread 04/04/2013, 06:21 PM   #6
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I would definitely take the opportunity to speak up....

If not don't gripe when its gone...

Agency: NOAA
Document ID: NOAA-NMFS-2010-0036-0469 Your Comment Tracking Number: 1jx-84lb-ak7h


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Unread 04/04/2013, 06:29 PM   #7
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I love this hobby a lot so much as I can't or won't stop them from naming endangered. Hey should have done that years ago because with out these measures are kids wouldn't be able to enjoy what most of us enjoy.

However I don't agree with he part about growing it and selling something that was grown in my tank. I have a huge frogspawn.


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Unread 04/04/2013, 06:41 PM   #8
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They're probably being indiscriminate in the classifications because how would they be able to verify one way or the other? There is no way to really prove whether a coral wasn't aquacultured. We could prove we grew it through photographic evidence, but would we be required to do so? Presuming they would to re-word the bill, of course.


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Unread 04/04/2013, 06:59 PM   #9
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Sent my comments..kinda surprised I am now just hearing about it.


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Unread 04/04/2013, 07:00 PM   #10
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Sent my comment.


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Unread 04/04/2013, 07:09 PM   #11
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Is this something that would apply only in the USA, or worldwide? If they're listed as endangered or threatened, would this just prevent import to the US or do they want to stop collection and export everywhere?

It seems extreme that those people with these corals already in their tanks could be fined; does this proposed law not have a grandfather clause? I thought there were rules of law to prevent prosecution for something that was perfectly legal when it took place. Fining someone for owning a newly protected coral they purchased legally a year ago would be like lowering the speed limit on a street and then going door to door, fining every motorist who drove at the (legal) old speed limit the day before... doesn't make sense to me. Not to mention, a rather ridiculous use of police time and government resources.


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Unread 04/04/2013, 07:31 PM   #12
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How can aquaculturing and selling them be illegal? I don't get that


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Unread 04/04/2013, 07:48 PM   #13
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If you look at all the consumption curves, everyone of them is parabolic. When that happens in a closed system, it leads to the demise of the system.

It means in the next 50-100 years, human population will under go mass extinction level event. The corals will come back, but humans may end up reliving the steam age at greatly reduced population levels.


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Unread 04/04/2013, 07:55 PM   #14
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The site says there are only 46 comments received... Come on people!! This is serious and very easy to leave a comment. I was wondering why my reef club was having a speaker on 'new changes coming to the hobby' tomorrow, this has me really nervous now


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Unread 04/04/2013, 07:57 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spectre2006 View Post
If you look at all the consumption curves, everyone of them is parabolic. When that happens in a closed system, it leads to the demise of the system.

It means in the next 50-100 years, human population will under go mass extinction level event. The corals will come back, but humans may end up reliving the steam age at greatly reduced population levels.



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Unread 04/04/2013, 08:02 PM   #16
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I sent my response in and copied this onto my local forum.


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Unread 04/04/2013, 08:05 PM   #17
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The more vague the law is written, the greater enforcement abilities they have. Read the Lacey act. Comment sent.


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Unread 04/04/2013, 08:05 PM   #18
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Can i have your permission to Copy your OP and post it in on other forums around my area?


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Unread 04/04/2013, 08:06 PM   #19
blajoie
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There are 700+ people browsing this forum right now. Lets go people! This would make all of us FELONS! Either stand up and do something about this or don't complain when you are forced to flush all these species down the toilet.

This government ...


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Unread 04/04/2013, 08:16 PM   #20
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I left my comment and am posting it here in case some one wants a rough guide for what they may want to say.

Not saying mine is the best or covers all of the important points. Just trying to help

Greetings.

The proposed addition of various reef building coral to the threatened and or endangered species list has my approval if based on scientific studies.

I cannot, however, agree with an overall ban including the propagation and trade of these varieties when tank bred.

As I understand it, private breeders would be prevented from selling, trading and seeding reefs with healthy, home grown corals.

Commercial breeders can take the pressure off of the reef while still providing hobbyists with corals.

Please consider that hobbyists often keep records of best growth conditions, can contribute to general knowledge and preservation of these species. If trade and /or possession these corals are banned 100% certain restorative actions will be greatly inhibited or eliminated.

Ban wild harvests. Ban transport of bulk corals. But consider permitting commercial tank breeders and private sales to continue.

Thank you


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Unread 04/04/2013, 08:18 PM   #21
blajoie
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bobssecrtsn View Post
Can i have your permission to Copy your OP and post it in on other forums around my area?

Yeah sure - most of that text belongs to AI though. But it should be fine, just give them credit.


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Unread 04/04/2013, 08:20 PM   #22
bobssecrtsn
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JUST TO LET EVERYONE KNOW I DID NOT DO THIS, THIS IS A QUOTE I PULLED OFF ANOTHER SITE THANK GOD FOR HIM!

So I wanted to take some time and break a couple things down for everyone curious or freaking out about the new proposal.

If you didn't already know,

NOAA Fisheries division is proposing Endangered Species Act (ESA) listings for 66 coral species:

59 in the Pacific
7 would be listed as endangered
52 would be listed as threatened

7 in the Caribbean
5 would be listed as endangered
2 would be listed as threatened

In addition, they are proposing that 2 Caribbean species--elkhorn and staghorn corals--already listed under the ESA be reclassified from threatened to endangered.

Proposed Endangered

Atlantic/ Caribbean

Boulder star coral (Montastraea annularis)
Elkhorn coral (Acropora palmata) *
Mountainous star coral (Montastraea faveolata)
Pillar coral (Dendrogyra cylindrus)
Rough Cactus Coral (Mycetophyllia ferox)
Staghorn coral (Acropora cervicornis) *
Star coral (Montastraea franksi)
* proposed to be reclassified from threatened to endangered

Pacific

Acropora jacquelineae
Acropora lokani
Acropora rudis
Anacropora spinosa
Euphyllia paradivisa
Millepora foveolata
Pocillopora elegans - E Pacific
Proposed Threatened Species

Atlantic

Lamarck's Sheet Coral (Agaricia lamarcki)
Elliptical Star Coral (Dichocoenia stokesii)

Pacific

Acanthastrea brevis
Acanthastrea hemprichii
Acanthastrea ishigakiensis
Acanthastrea regularis
Acropora aculeus
Acropora acuminate
Acropora aspera
Acropora dendrum
Acropora donei
Acropora globiceps
Acropora horrida
Acropora listeria
Acropora microclados
Acropora palmerae
Acropora paniculata
Acropora pharaonis
Acropora polystoma
Acropora retusa
Acropora speciosa
Acropora striata
Acropora tenella
Acropora vaughani
Acropora verweyi
Alveopora allingi
Alveopora fenestrate
Alveopora verrilliana
Anacropora puertogalerae
Astreopora cucullata
Barabattoia laddi
Caulastrea echinulata
Euphyllia cristata
Euphyllia paraancora
Isopora crateriformis
Isopora cuneata
Millepora tuberosa
Montipora angulate
Montipora australiensis
Montipora calcarea
Montipora caliculata
Montipora dilatata/ flabellata/ turgescens
Montipora lobulata
Montipora patula/ verrilli
Pachyseris rugosa
Pavona diffluens
Pectinia alcicornis
Physogyra lichtensteini
Pocillopora danae
Pocillopora elegans - Indo-Pacific
Porites horizontalata
Porites napopora
Porites nigrescens
Seriatopora aculeate

That's the list, and by my count only 14 species on the list are common, 8 more are rare at best and the rest are even more rare or never even seen in the hobby. However, all on the list are important reef building species.

Just to take it one step further
I JUST called the NOAA and spoke with a rep to get clarification for myself, here's the gist......

You can own any on the list,

You can continue to own them,

You can transport them across state lines but not for commercial purposes,

You can give or receive any specimens on the list for free but no money or services/goods can be exchanged. (IE frag swaps and giving frags to friends),

Most on the list are being classified as "threatened" not "endangered" which means there will be even more "exclusions and circumstances" that allow for ownership and the likes,

Other rights and privledges are available if you own the specimen prior to the new classifications,

For more info on the ESA (endangered species act) or "Threatened" species classification and what it really means, go here......

(ESA) http://www.nmfs.noaa.gov/pr/laws/esa/
("Threatened" species)
http://www.fws.gov/endangered/esa-li...df/listing.pdf

If you would like to call them yourself, contact info can be found here.....

http://www.nmfs.noaa.gov/ole/about/contacts.html

Hope this clears some things up for everyone
If you have any further questions, let me know. I kept that rep on the phone for close to 30 minutes


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Unread 04/04/2013, 08:27 PM   #23
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Thanks for the due diligence Bob, puts my mind at ease a bit. My reef club has a federal inspector speaking tomorrow, I'm still very curious to hear it all in person.

Edit: just saw the top, thanks for posting it though, kudos to that gentleman!


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Unread 04/04/2013, 08:29 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by leveldrummer View Post



http://thetechjournal.com/science/em...00-years.xhtml


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Unread 04/04/2013, 08:44 PM   #25
blajoie
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bobssecrtsn View Post

Just to take it one step further
I JUST called the NOAA and spoke with a rep to get clarification for myself, here's the gist......

You can own any on the list,

You can continue to own them,

You can transport them across state lines but not for commercial purposes,

You can give or receive any specimens on the list for free but no money or services/goods can be exchanged. (IE frag swaps and giving frags to friends),

Most on the list are being classified as "threatened" not "endangered" which means there will be even more "exclusions and circumstances" that allow for ownership and the likes,

Other rights and privledges are available if you own the specimen prior to the new classifications.
So the way I interpret this:

No longer mail order any of these species.
No longer purchase from an LFS.
No longer sell on local reef forums.
Frag swaps would be illegal, no? Frags for frags still is a good being traded.
Species would have to be given out for free.

Not sure how they would ever prove ownership of species before law goes into effect.

We certainly need more details on this rule as to how it will affect the culturing of the above listed species.

Either way - This still sounds like a major headache for all of us.



Last edited by blajoie; 04/04/2013 at 08:52 PM.
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