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Old 01/07/2016, 05:56 PM   #2601
Fish Keeper82
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Well after pulling my UV sterilizer out of the garage and hard plumbing it in, looks like im out of room in my sump.
Skimmer has been pulling 3 times the gunk out than "normal" before the addition of the UV sterilizer. Skimmate is brown in color when normally it has a green tint to it. Hopefully the brown is due to some dead Dinos. That is 3 days skimmate. Intrested to see how skimmer reacts now that UV is online as well.



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Old 01/07/2016, 07:12 PM   #2602
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Wish me luck folks. Just did a 10% WC. No trace of Dino's so I should be safe........


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Old 01/08/2016, 02:25 AM   #2603
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Fishkeeper- go lights out too. You want them free floating as much as possible so the UV and skimmer get them. And run the skimmer on low flow - make them burn.

That's what worked for me, anyway.


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Old 01/08/2016, 02:26 AM   #2604
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Oh- and take before and after pics?


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Old 01/09/2016, 06:41 AM   #2605
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34cygni

This must be the mother of all posts here on Reef Central.
It's very fitting having this extremely detailed insight into bacteria on page 101.
This is something we humans have a problem comprehending even though it's an important and a huge world it's also mostly invisible to us.

There is no doubt that this microscopic world plays a big part in reefs life and death, but how exactly is another matter. The demise of massive coccolithophore blooms, in just a few days, by a virus, have been documented so they hold a force to be reckoned with.

I found your wall of text to be very interesting and well done and clearly it took a lot of effort to research and get in writing. I think many with a diploma would not have done any better with this difficult matter.


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Old 01/09/2016, 08:26 AM   #2606
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Quote:
Originally Posted by seamonster124 View Post





I read it all twice and I agree
I need to read it a dozen times. And after that, if only 10% sticks with me, I'll have learned more that I have in the past year.
This is one of the most in-depth, informative threads ever posted on this or any forum. My thanks to all of you who have participated and posted your findings.
If there's someone out there with the time (and a better understanding of everything presented here) who could condense this thread down to a "primer" (that could be read in an afternoon), it could save many a hobbyist considerable time and money dealing with this issue.
Regardless, this thread should be move to a "sticky" status. It's a must read, not only for understanding dinos, but how different forms of bacteria affect everything in out tanks.
Again, many thanks!


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Old 01/09/2016, 09:33 AM   #2607
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I don't have any special insight as to what is best to limit dino growth in aquaria, but the scientific literature shows many studies where different species of dinos are limited by low levels of N, P, iron, copper, zinc, and manganese.
Randy- the purpose of sharing how dinos get started is to show that they thrive even where other N, P users cannot. With hair algae and chaeto starving, the dinos start to bloom.

I think your point is that there are other limiting elements in the water that could break the dinos without hurting normal algae. For example-" removing all trace of zinc stops them from feeding or replicating. "

That would be changing the trace composition of the salt itself as well as limiting introduction through food, etc... That sounds difficult but it may be relatively easy to test in a controlled environment with small dino cultures at removed traces.

My doubt is that if dino-onset usually comes with ULNS and heavy over-export, that further limiting of elements is only pushing further into an unbalanced artificial state?

The success in the "dirty method" doesn't come from adding waste. It's giving a leg up to algae as the normal and manageable pest. Few other reef keepers actively struggle to get hair algae to grow, and that shows the extraordinary desperation of the dino patients. Those that have bridged back into normal reef chemistry are glad to work through those minor hassles - at least algae can be nutrient import and export managed.

It's literally like trying to get the flu because it's better than cancer. And it has worked.

I went the clean method with UV and skimming, but I have no doubt that my thick ATS export and chaeto removal indicate that my feeding would yield a massive GHA explosion in the DT if I stop my exports. And that is excellent and normal.


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Old 01/09/2016, 05:13 PM   #2608
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Actually I'd rather think it more like the "gut" transplants where docs take a bit of healthy poo from a donors gut to replenish the gut bacteria flora/fauna.


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Old 01/10/2016, 12:53 AM   #2609
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So i borrowed a microscope..recorded the best video possible..can someone id my dinos?


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Old 01/10/2016, 01:48 AM   #2610
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My bet is Ostreopsis, but I'm not totally sure.
With the phone perfectly still you would have gotten the best possible video and maybe turn off all ambient lights.


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Old 01/10/2016, 10:16 AM   #2611
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My bet is Ostreopsis, but I'm not totally sure.
With the phone perfectly still you would have gotten the best possible video and maybe turn off all ambient lights.
Hopefully this one is a little better
https://youtu.be/lWPspE3n21A


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Old 01/10/2016, 06:00 PM   #2612
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That second video is well done. I can't identify single-celled organisms, though.


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Old 01/10/2016, 06:00 PM   #2613
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Dinoflagellates.

They move like Ostreopsis




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Old 01/10/2016, 06:28 PM   #2614
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They move like Ostreopsis

Guess i have the hard to kill ones right?


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Old 01/10/2016, 06:46 PM   #2615
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Guess i have the hard to kill ones right?
Mine disappeared in 48 hours. No trace of them in about 10 days now.


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Old 01/10/2016, 08:52 PM   #2616
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Mine disappeared in 48 hours. No trace of them in about 10 days now.
What did you do to rid them again?


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Old 01/10/2016, 10:52 PM   #2617
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Mine disappeared in 48 hours. No trace of them in about 10 days now.
Doing what? Ive had them for couple of weeks now


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Old 01/11/2016, 08:08 AM   #2618
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What did you do to rid them again?
1) Double up filter socks to catch dead dinos. Replaced sock every day. Placed small carbon bag inside the sock.

2)Turned off lights (tank and fuge), wrapped tank in a towel to prevent any light. Turned on blues for 15 minutes to feed fish.

3) Increased nitrates: 3 cubes of frozen per day for 3-4 days in a 93gallon.

4) Dosed bacteria in a bottle; seachem Stability and Bio-spira

5) Dosed phytoplankton

6) Opened skimmer's collection cup drain to allow it to drain right back into the sump.

Overfeeding really increased my microscopic creature population and you can see them eating dinos in some of the videos.

I just did a water change and still no dinos


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Old 01/11/2016, 08:42 AM   #2619
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Hmmm..dirty method


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Old 01/11/2016, 08:46 AM   #2620
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1) Double up filter socks to catch dead dinos. Replaced sock every day. Placed small carbon bag inside the sock.

2)Turned off lights (tank and fuge), wrapped tank in a towel to prevent any light. Turned on blues for 15 minutes to feed fish.

3) Increased nitrates: 3 cubes of frozen per day for 3-4 days in a 93gallon.

4) Dosed bacteria in a bottle; seachem Stability and Bio-spira

5) Dosed phytoplankton

6) Opened skimmer's collection cup drain to allow it to drain right back into the sump.

Overfeeding really increased my microscopic creature population and you can see them eating dinos in some of the videos.

I just did a water change and still no dinos
How long did you overfeed for ?


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Old 01/11/2016, 09:05 AM   #2621
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How long did you overfeed for ?
Over fed for 4-5 days. Now I feed about 1 cube every two days + auto feeder running twice per day.

I think the best way to do it is order a cheapo microscope off amazon and monitor the population of the beneficial creatures. When dinos were present, there was not a single other creature to be seen.

I also started skimming and removed the filter socks as they were trapping thousands of tiny creatures who appear to be constantly munching on detritus.




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Old 01/11/2016, 09:05 AM   #2622
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Ive read through nearly this entire thread. I currently have Dinos but they arent nearly to the porportions you guys have had them. Mine will take 4 or 5 days to really get annoying to coral and its mostly the frags. I have SPS that are still alive and growing (albiet slow) i have 2 RBTA and 2 RFAs a rabbitfish, starry blenny, urchin, 2 clowns, and 2 shrimp gobies. My CUC isnt dying and i havent had a snail die off like others have mentioned. I do believe i lost a kole tang to this stuff before i knew it was dinos but at the same time there is no way for me to know as it was pretty new to the tank.

Tank info, Red sea reefer 250 (65 gallon system). Used about 15ish lbs of "live" rock from a tank i had set up and running for 6 months. also added about 25 lbs of dry pukani rock a month after setup of the tank. The tank has only been running since october, used carribsea argonite sand. I run rox.8 carbon and use a vertex omega 150 skimmer (way oversized.)

Im not certain but im pretty sure ive had a slight amount of this stuff since end of november, and it took off after i removed a large amount of bryopsis turf algea and peroxide scrubbed a large chunk of the rock.

So far ive tried a ~3 day somewhat blackout.. not total, i didnt cover the tank or anything and i had the lights on for ~45 minutes each night so i could feed the fish and the anemones. (nems werent happy about no light) i dosed 7ml peroxide morning and night during this time and a couple days after. I went 2 weeks without seeing dinos after doing this.

Then my skimmer went offline because i mounted frags with epoxy (took 1.5 weeks and 20 gallons of new water and its JUST starting to work again) and i noticed them starting to return. My corals and nems i dont think will last another 3 day blackout and since it didnt solve the problem im not sure i want to try it again anyways.







Now it kind of looks like a type of cyano, except in the morning its nearly all gone and by noon its back again. The more i let it go the stringier it gets, but it also grows on the glass and fragrack. I am trying to get access to a microscope to identify. What are your guys's thoughts?


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Old 01/11/2016, 09:07 AM   #2623
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EDIT: This is what it looked like prior to the blackout and h2o2, it is MUCH less than this now. Ill try to take pictures tonight, i just wanted to upload what it looks like when its bad.


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Old 01/11/2016, 10:36 AM   #2624
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EDIT: This is what it looked like prior to the blackout and h2o2, it is MUCH less than this now. Ill try to take pictures tonight, i just wanted to upload what it looks like when its bad.
No picture


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Old 01/11/2016, 11:07 AM   #2625
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No picture
It is the post above. Didnt let me edit the original post


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