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Old 02/04/2016, 02:16 AM   #2951
rallibon
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joti26 View Post
Still getting some every day on soft corals and lost my Duncan and Cat's paw but everything else still coping. It's interesting how it seems to change though, had none on sand for a few days but now less on glass. Then last two days more on sand again. . Very persistent on some soft corals and not others also interesting, two zoas next to each other and one gets it the other one doesn't. Looking forward to getting where you are, nearly there though and definitely nowhere near as bad as some!
Joti26 - Interestingly my gorgonians were absolutely covered with dinos (but survived) while my Euphyllia, Torch and Duncan were unaffected

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I have been fighting dino's for a very long time as well. I have been able to get it contain it to just the sand bed and it also doesn't seem to be affecting my sand sifting star fish.
I have noticed coralline growth on the back of the tank again and other green algae grown on my return lines. At this point, I am thinking about removing my star fish, and sucking out all of the sand. I don't want to go bare bottom, so I was thinking about slowing adding in a crushed coral type base back into the tank. Has anyone ever tried this? Will the dino's attach to crushed coral base like they do to sand? I'm sure the answer is yes if they can and do attach to corals and rocks.

The only other thing I can think about doing is getting another dragon goby. Other than the constant sand storm he created, the tank was free of dino's. I don't have any corals in the tank (just some zoo's and a small hammer coral). The zoo's are doing outstanding and aren't being affected by the dino's.

This is the weirdest stuff I have ever had to deal with in the hobby (15+ years).
dragon174 - my sand sifters were unaffected too but I did some research and realized they are fairly voracious predators in the sand bed so may be contributing to the conditions allowing the dinos to thrive. I would agree on the stars but not the sand. My bare-bottom frag tank was as badly affected as my DT so I do not believe the existence or not of a sand bed to be a factor. I have a sand-sifting sleeper goby (Valenciennaea strigata) who survived albeit the areas of sand he could feed from were curtailed by the dinos. I did not see him scooping up dino-affected sand. Like you my zoas were OK

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Originally Posted by joti26 View Post
I honestly don't think removing the sand bed will help much as they will grow on glass, discovered loads in the bottom of my sump today and nothing but glass on the bottom although not the brown snotty stuff just the dusty bits seems like they will just adapt to whatever they can. Also discovered that although I thought the filter I was using was collecting the stringy stuff it still let some through so ordered 10 micron socks today. So no wonder I wasn't getting rid of as much as I thought some was still escaping!

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As above I agree on sand bed. I also forgot to add in my earlier post I used 10 micron socks when I siphoned out dinos from my frag tank. This thread indicated that most dinos were 30-40 microns so would therefore be captured.

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Excellent post rallibon!
I've tried most of what you have but not all at once.
Let's hope your current status will not decline.
DNA, as the illustrious founder of this thread, I would be intrigued which element you have not tried...

On a general note, I do not profess to be any sort of expert compared to some on this thread but my overall recommendation is to do things slowly and observe. If things are improving you will not see it from day to day but you will from week to week. Take a photo of one piece of rock or area of sand and compare that exact place at the same time in the lighting cycle a week later and so on. One thing I noticed when things started to improve were more beneficial (i.e. algae-eating) asterina starfish on the glass. I saw none of them when dinos were at their peak. They could have been being consumed by the sand-sifters or it might just have been there was no algae for them to eat while the dinos were outcompeting. Who knows? So my advice (1) Don't give up but try different things as advised on this thread (2) Do things slowly (3) Do not expect quick results but observe minute incremental signs of change.

I hope this does not come across as a smug "I've conquered this" as I certainly have not but I fully understand the vicissitudes others are experiencing!


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Old 02/04/2016, 07:36 AM   #2952
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Pretty nice. I am currently at 80% dinos gone..same method as you described, only difference is that i added bio spira and mb7 instead of the stuff you used. I do notice that the dinos cleared all my coraline algae off the tank glass..do they eat coraline?
good to hear! did you go 3 day or longer blackout?

as for coralline, i've noticed the same correlation in the past when i've had blooms however i don't necessarily think they eat coralline as opposed to them creating an environment where coralline can't grow...when i've had dinos, they tend to do messed up things to your alk and throw your parameters all over the place...i think coralline likes stability as coralline is a nice indication of a healthy tank

this is my tank today...i think i'm about 10+ months dino free...notice the coralline in the back glass?






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Old 02/04/2016, 07:42 AM   #2953
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It's been about a month so I don't know if they're completely gone but I do not see them. I only registered after seeing that advice to give/sell corals from a dino-infected tank. I simply felt that is extremely irresponsible akin to telling someone with AIDS to go ahead and have unprotected sex in hopes that their immune system will fight it off. Again, I've never had dinos before in 10 years and they exploded very shortly after introducing frags that came from a dino infested tank.

As for the method(s) I used, I did not want to use H2O2, AlgaeX, Dinoxal, raise ALK, or any extended blackouts as my corals would suffer too much. Once I realized what I had, I began doing my research which lead me to this thread. I started somewhere in the middle and read up on Montireef adding his skimmate back into the tank which worked for him but he didn't know why nor could replicate it. I read up on Porkchop's UV method so I borrowed one from a friend who has a pond. And then cal_stir had great success with his dirty method so I included that in my plan on attack. I wanted to use a multi-pronged approach that made sense - get them into the water stream through a short blackout, eradicate them with strong UV, and finish them off with competition. Basically these posts are the methods I used:

Montireef's magic skimmate: http://reefcentral.com/forums/showpo...&postcount=557

PorkChopExpress UV method: http://reefcentral.com/forums/showth...6#post23370006

cal_stir dirty method: http://reefcentral.com/forums/showth...6#post23951736

So thank you to those 3 pioneers for helping me with my problem!
hi Eden, good to hear those methods worked for you! but the UV method isn't mine, it actually started out as a suggestion from brandon429 to use a pond sterilizer in our reef tanks over a year ago...i think i was just maybe the first or second to actually try it out but definitely can't take credit for it

and also i do agree with you on your first point...i think it's fairly safe to assume your dino was introduced...there are many ULNS tanks out there without this problem and it takes just 1 dino cell introduced in that environment to create havoc...however, that 1 dino cell can definitely come from anything - fish, live rock, coral, etc. as they definitely are everywhere so at some point in our hobby where we're trading corals and buying fish from others, i think it's also fairly safe to assume everyone has a very high chance of getting it at some point and many probably already have it but have conditions that aren't favorable for them to bloom



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Old 02/04/2016, 08:19 AM   #2954
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Maybe a survey here:

Who has used UV and been successful?
Who has used UV and not been successful?

I'm UV + success


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Old 02/04/2016, 08:23 AM   #2955
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Maybe a survey here:

Who has used UV and been successful?
Who has used UV and not been successful?

I'm UV + success
how many watts is your UV?

i just bought a 9W for my 75 and ill push 120 gph thru it


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Old 02/04/2016, 08:27 AM   #2956
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both...i first used UV when i had an AIO 34 gallon tank, removed half the sand, 3 day blackout, and UV

i then moved, upgraded to a 70g with new 2" sandbed, same rocks, fish, and corals and got another bloom...UV alone didn't stop that from happening even with a brand new bulb...i had to do 3 day blackout, UV, and dirty...haven't seen dinos since

it's absolutely possible they evolved or i got a new strain of dinos not as susceptible to UV the second time around or the sandbed was a huge contributing factor


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Old 02/04/2016, 09:11 AM   #2957
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Ok. So you're UV ... Success dependent on strain
?


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Old 02/04/2016, 10:35 AM   #2958
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both...i first used UV when i had an AIO 34 gallon tank, removed half the sand, 3 day blackout, and UV

i then moved, upgraded to a 70g with new 2" sandbed, same rocks, fish, and corals and got another bloom...UV alone didn't stop that from happening even with a brand new bulb...i had to do 3 day blackout, UV, and dirty...haven't seen dinos since

it's absolutely possible they evolved or i got a new strain of dinos not as susceptible to UV the second time around or the sandbed was a huge contributing factor
i doubt unicellular eukaryotes can evolve to not get killed by UV light of that intensity let alone so fast, I think it might have been the sandbed

UV should be coming today im anxious to start this blackout...


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Old 02/04/2016, 11:11 AM   #2959
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i honestly have no idea why it didn't work the second time and there were too many variables that changed for me to make any accurate assumption...it was a brand new, much bigger tank, new sandbed, new corals, new fish, new lights, new equipment, etc. the only things that remained from the old tank were live rock, encrusted corals, and a few fish

the UV never really went offline either so the second bloom happened as the UV was still online...the bulb could have gone out, that's certainly a possibility that allowed the dino to bloom but even after i changed it for a brand new Philips one, the dinos didn't go away and were not affected in the slightest

as mentioned several times now, what definitely worked for me was the 3 day blackout + UV, and dirty + pods/phyto...the 3 day blackout not only made the dinos recede but i honestly couldn't find any at all after uncovering on the 3rd day...and the dirty method plus pods/phyto has eliminated any trace of them...i was able to borrow a microscope and cannot find any


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Old 02/04/2016, 12:09 PM   #2960
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Was your UV on a large enough loop so it was treating enough new water continuously?

Any reactor can be efficient or inefficient based on flow, placement, etc...


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Old 02/04/2016, 07:02 PM   #2961
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A little update...

I added the cermedia block 2 days ago and inoculated with the prodibio bacteria straight on to it. Today there were patches of dino free areas on the rocks... about 75% of the original population I'd say. I can't tell if this is from the dirty method (I have GHA growing as well) or from the block or from the lack of water changes.

I have suctioned out what I could thru a 50 micron sock and I've installed a 9W UV... lets hope it gets better and better. The green hair algae growth is what gives me the most hope.


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Old 02/04/2016, 08:42 PM   #2962
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good to hear! did you go 3 day or longer blackout?

as for coralline, i've noticed the same correlation in the past when i've had blooms however i don't necessarily think they eat coralline as opposed to them creating an environment where coralline can't grow...when i've had dinos, they tend to do messed up things to your alk and throw your parameters all over the place...i think coralline likes stability as coralline is a nice indication of a healthy tank

this is my tank today...i think i'm about 10+ months dino free...notice the coralline in the back glass?



First off WoW! Noice tank! S
Yeah did a 3 day, knocked them back a bit..then bought some phyto 2 kinds live. Bacteria various kinds and started dosing.
After couple of days the gha started showin up..also my brother trimmed his chaeto so i added it to my fuge..(pod heavy)
Also purchased another 16oz of algagen tisbe pods and added them to the fuge. Dinos only appearing on a couple of my acro but very minimal..seems like it is working so far..
Btw when can i do water change? Long after dinos have disapeared? Or can i siphon dinos out and replenish with new salt? Thanks!!


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Old 02/04/2016, 09:27 PM   #2963
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First off WoW! Noice tank! S
Yeah did a 3 day, knocked them back a bit..then bought some phyto 2 kinds live. Bacteria various kinds and started dosing.
After couple of days the gha started showin up..also my brother trimmed his chaeto so i added it to my fuge..(pod heavy)
Also purchased another 16oz of algagen tisbe pods and added them to the fuge. Dinos only appearing on a couple of my acro but very minimal..seems like it is working so far..
Btw when can i do water change? Long after dinos have disapeared? Or can i siphon dinos out and replenish with new salt? Thanks!!
i'm going to go against the grain here and say you can do water changes at any time as long as you are not NO3/PO4 deficient but i think you are going to get varying opinions, mostly saying you should NOT do any water changes until long after they've disappeared...it's a theory that the dinos will bloom when you replenish some sort of nutrient or mineral or whatever in that fresh batch of saltwater...however, it's my lone opinion that it's not that you are replenishing something the dinos need to thrive, it's that water changes will deplete your already ultra low levels of NO3/PO4 and hinder the growth of competing algae which is something you desperately need in your battle with dinos...water changes basically counter the dirty method

but again, that is strictly my opinion based on no facts whatsoever...to be safe, i'd recommend just keeping up with the dirty method and just let it run it's course


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Old 02/04/2016, 09:30 PM   #2964
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A little update...

I added the cermedia block 2 days ago and inoculated with the prodibio bacteria straight on to it. Today there were patches of dino free areas on the rocks... about 75% of the original population I'd say. I can't tell if this is from the dirty method (I have GHA growing as well) or from the block or from the lack of water changes.

I have suctioned out what I could thru a 50 micron sock and I've installed a 9W UV... lets hope it gets better and better. The green hair algae growth is what gives me the most hope.
GHA growing is the first step to recovery...seeing green film on your glass is also a very good indication you are going down the right path...keep feeding heavy and dosing that phyto! gl


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Old 02/04/2016, 10:23 PM   #2965
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GHA growing is the first step to recovery...seeing green film on your glass is also a very good indication you are going down the right path...keep feeding heavy and dosing that phyto! gl
yeah things are looking good i just went and turned on the white lights only to get a clearer view of what's growing and there's a green film of algae on the back glass


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Old 02/04/2016, 11:38 PM   #2966
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how many watts is your UV?

i just bought a 9W for my 75 and ill push 120 gph thru it
36W ~ @ 200gph on ~ 660gal system ~ 380gal DT


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Old 02/04/2016, 11:40 PM   #2967
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Survey so far:
Karim UV +
PorkChop UV sometimes
....

Please chime in if you've used low flow UV to kill dinos


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Old 02/05/2016, 12:00 PM   #2968
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My bouts with dinos makes no sense.....

3 day bloom followed by 30 day clear followed by 2 day bloom followed by now 5 day clear.

Clean and dirty method have both worked for me.....
Decreasing lights and increasing lights have both worked and not worked....
Turning off skimmer and over-skimming also worked for me the first time and against me the second time....




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Old 02/05/2016, 12:05 PM   #2969
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My bouts with dinos makes no sense.....

3 day bloom followed by 30 day clear followed by 2 day bloom followed by now 5 day clear.

Clean and dirty method have both worked for me.....
Decreasing lights and increasing lights have both worked and not worked....
Turning off skimmer and over-skimming also worked for me the first time and against me the second time....

that sucks...i don't recall but have you identified your dinos and has the strain always been the same? i suppose it's possible different dinos can coexist that are immune or susceptible to different treatments...it seems UV works for some but not others and dirty works for some and not others


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Old 02/05/2016, 12:14 PM   #2970
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Originally Posted by karimwassef View Post
Survey so far:
Karim UV +
PorkChop UV sometimes
....

Please chime in if you've used low flow UV to kill dinos
Low flow UV count me in. Very managable but not eradicated. Happy reefer once again.


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Old 02/05/2016, 12:24 PM   #2971
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Slow flow UV users poll:

Karim. ++ (killed dinos every time)
Porkchop. +- (sometimes killed dinos)
Fishkeeper82. +0 (controlled & halted dinos)

Need more votes... I'm calling it +3/-0 for now


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Old 02/05/2016, 03:27 PM   #2972
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Dinos have receded to about 5% of the original bloom. Very small patches here and there. GHA and green film algae growing on glass.

Dirthy method, no skimming, cermedia block, prodibio bacteria, pods, and now UV and mechanical removal thru 50 micron was what I did.


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Old 02/05/2016, 08:57 PM   #2973
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so how would you rate the contribution of UV?


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Old 02/05/2016, 09:40 PM   #2974
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Quote:
Originally Posted by karimwassef View Post
Slow flow UV users poll:

Karim. ++ (killed dinos every time)
Porkchop. +- (sometimes killed dinos)
Fishkeeper82. +0 (controlled & halted dinos)

Need more votes... I'm calling it +3/-0 for now
How about those that got rid of it with out UV? Though I do see the idea behind it running at night. I don't like though that's also when a lot of other critters hiding from the light come out and play.

One may want to, if not already due to harvesting algae, run some lights in the sump at night while the UV is on. Give them a chance to scurry away to hide from the light before getting sucked up by the pump supplying the UV (again assume it's not fed by a drain).


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Old 02/05/2016, 10:53 PM   #2975
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so how would you rate the contribution of UV?
well yesterday it was 75% of the original bloom, more dinos were on the rocks than not. today it was 5%, it might have been the UV but could it work that fast overnight?


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