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Old 02/10/2016, 02:45 AM   #3026
karimwassef
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do you shake your phyto culture? I started one but it keeps settling... or I lose a lot of water and have to top off all the time?

It's still green, but I don't have a phyto rythm that works, so I keep buying more fresh stuff because I'm not sure my homemade brew is good


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Old 02/10/2016, 10:18 AM   #3027
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yes you should open the bottle up for fresh oxygen and shake the bottle every few days to keep them from settling


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Old 02/10/2016, 12:23 PM   #3028
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I have a large container... Didn't think about it. May need to redesign.

I have some settling. I also have clumps that rotate in the soup. And I also have sheets that form and then float. I blast a lot of air through it.


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Old 02/10/2016, 12:37 PM   #3029
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oh, just throw an air stone in there then...same goes for pods, the bottles should be reoxygenated on occasion


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Old 02/10/2016, 01:07 PM   #3030
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PorkchopExpress View Post
yes you should open the bottle up for fresh oxygen and shake the bottle every few days to keep them from settling
Does this also apply to phytofeast?
I've kept mine closed in fridge and still smells ok.


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Old 02/10/2016, 03:58 PM   #3031
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I have an airline but no air stone. I'll put one in.


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Old 02/10/2016, 04:09 PM   #3032
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Phyto needs air pump, with no air stone.




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Old 02/10/2016, 04:19 PM   #3033
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That's what I have, but not so thick and green.


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Old 02/10/2016, 04:20 PM   #3034
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How do you tipoff?


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Old 02/10/2016, 04:22 PM   #3035
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Quote:
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How do you tipoff?
I use one bottle till its almost empty, then top it off and not touch it for a few days.

Growing way faster than anticipated so I'm going down to just 2-3 bottles.


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Old 02/10/2016, 04:43 PM   #3036
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Doesn't that mess my salinity?

My container evaporation is pretty high- thinking of adding an ATO to it.


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Old 02/10/2016, 04:58 PM   #3037
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mannyhernz View Post
Does this also apply to phytofeast?
I've kept mine closed in fridge and still smells ok.
i really don't know much about Phytofeast...is that that ReefNutrition stuff? is it live phyto? i vaguely remember someone saying it was some form of concentrated phyto in stasis but i have no idea what that even means

i've only ever bought the live kind and every single place says to store refrigerated with the top off or open to allow fresh oxygen exchange and to also shake the bottle every few days so it doesn't settle


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Old 02/10/2016, 05:00 PM   #3038
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PorkchopExpress View Post
i really don't know much about Phytofeast...is that that ReefNutrition stuff? is it live phyto? i vaguely remember someone saying it was some form of concentrated phyto in stasis but i have no idea what that even means

i've only ever bought the live kind and every single place says to store refrigerated with the top off or open to allow fresh oxygen exchange and to also shake the bottle every few days so it doesn't settle
Yea it states its live and super concentrated..ill look it up 👍


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Old 02/10/2016, 05:49 PM   #3039
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Here's my phyto tank of shame

 photo 24CED41F-73D3-40F1-BD47-38ECEFB5D10C_zpsnvntadah.jpg

See the swirling clumps and floating sheets?

Maybe I should just put some in the tank to see what happens.


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Old 02/10/2016, 07:42 PM   #3040
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I would try to pull out a clump or a bit of the sheet, to see what it might be, but adding it to the tank might be safe enough. A coarse netting might catch a lot of the debris, though, and should be easy to try.


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Old 02/10/2016, 08:00 PM   #3041
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I would take a cup out and start over with a bottle.


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Old 02/11/2016, 12:51 AM   #3042
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use one of those half liter poland spring bottles. use ur stove to heat something up and cut a hole in the bottle cap and stick some airline tubing all the way down into the bottle and have bubbles going thru to keep things oxygenated and moving.


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Old 02/11/2016, 04:58 AM   #3043
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OK - QUESTION TO THE CHEMISTRY GUYS!

Randy, Jonathan -

I've been looking at comparing dinos, cyano, and phyto ...

And there's an interesting concept that I'd like to understand better.

In the Nitrogen cycle, Nitrogen Fixation is converting Nitrogen gas into biologically available Nitrogen - which is an essential part of the food cycle (correct?).

In our tanks, as we feed, we add biologically available nitrogen as our reefs and fish create waste like ammonia. The nitrifying bateria convert this into nitrite and then nitrate.

THEN! IN THE SAND OR OTHER ANAEROBIC MEDIA, DENITRIFYING BACTERIA CONVERT THIS INTO NITROGEN GAS (correct?).

Why the caps? because I think the N2 is the problem. We've associated sand beds with dinos and cyano... but I think it's the fact that a functioning sand bed will generate nitrogen gas.

The Nitrogen gas, along with any waste, becomes a food source... for nitrogen fixing creatures... DINOS, CYANO, PHYTO.

I'm not blaming Nitrogen, or the sand bed. I think it's all natural - until the normal nitrogen fixing agents die off... leaving a void. Here's where Cyano and Dinos take off.

The introduction of other bacteria, as well as the addition of phyto seems to really help - and it may be that they are simply taking over their normal functions of nitrogen fixing.

Ok - I know it sounds overly simplistic ... but it ties the pieces of data we've experienced into one loop.

and the cures seem to align with the results too.

Randy's theory on a contributing component that's feeding the dinos may be spot on - it's just that the component is essential to life = nitrogen. But it is in the form of nitrogen gas, and high flow could help remove it before it gets pulled back in by the dinos.

This also explains why cyano seems to show up before dinos take over... and usually around sand... just above the nitrogen factory deep below. The presense of the mats of cyano and dino only makes the region even more anaerobic, fueling the nitrogen source.

So - I'm a physicist, not a chemist - so I'm asking the smarter chemistry guys... could it just be a link in the Nitrogen cycle that gets locked up by one species?

If the solution is adding phyto to compete for the nitrogen food source... what does that mean for better application? should we dose it right over the sand bed like a fog where the gas is most available?

What other options are there? better circulation? are there other nitrogen fixers that are beneficial?

I know Dr Tim's has a product that's based on bacteria that attack the cyano bacteria... could it work here?


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Old 02/11/2016, 05:05 AM   #3044
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After posting, I thought that someone smarter might have had the same idea... So I googled it. And as usual...

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3849724/

What do you all think??


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Old 02/11/2016, 06:45 AM   #3045
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Dinoflagellates.

Quote:
Originally Posted by taricha View Post
Nyxx photo: I vote yes. Dinos.

Yours: not sure, but that description in a low nutrient system is more strongly suggestive of dinos than your picture.

I have been puzzling about this feedback, as of now I still not sure if I am having dinos or not but some one have asked me to turn off all the flows to stop current in my DT and wait for 15 mins , and if there are floating slime string like things then that is dinos , and I have tried and I saw a lots of floating slime string like stuff measuring several centimeters in length.

As discuss here, the causative agent for Dinos is due to nitrogen but someone say it may be some hose that we use is excreting some softener causing to have dinos in our tank?

Can anyone give me your valued advise and comments if this was indeed positively Dinos ? And the hose we use except silicone and PVC are causing this dinos at the end ? Or due to the N that strongly discuss here?

I attached here a video that aside from the said free floating slime string stuff , I also saw the long said algae like stuff attached to glass wall:



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Old 02/11/2016, 08:46 AM   #3046
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Further to my above post , those said free floating slime string gone when lights out ..... Is this affirmative "Dinos"?


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Current Tank Info: 90cmx60cmx60cm (420 liters total volume), 12mm thick tampered glass aquariums , Eheim compact +5000, Jns SK2 protein skimmer, T5 x 4 x39 watt (2 blue , 2 white), MP40WES, SEIO 1000, TLF 150 *2 + 550 *1
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Old 02/11/2016, 08:50 AM   #3047
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Okay... I am so done with these dino's that I'm ready to give up but don't want too. Here is what I'm thinking about doing and would like some feedback.

1. Take all of my fish back to the LFS or sell them to other local reefers (including sand sifting star, crabs and snails)

2. Remove all of my rocks from my tank and put them in a tub of tank water with a power head and skimmer to keep it good.

3. Remove and discard all of the live sand in my tank

4. Clean the entire tank, sump and do some re-build the return lines (nothing to do with the dino's but something I've wanted to do for some time).

Questions (when re-starting):
1. should I go bare bottom or get new sand?
2. should I try and save some of the current tank water (50%) or should I start from scratch will all new water?
3. put the rocks back into the tank

Once this is done, I will have to wait for the tank to cycle all over again, but I can't deal with the dino's any more.

Please let me know your thoughts!


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Old 02/11/2016, 09:45 AM   #3048
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Some people have restarted their tanks just to have dinos pop back up. I would just keep fighting them myself. I had just about given up and was going to let nature take its course but i soon aftet added a UV sterilizer and it got me back to good times. Yes they are still here but very small level compared to before


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Old 02/11/2016, 10:10 AM   #3049
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Quote:
Originally Posted by machodik View Post
Further to my above post , those said free floating slime string gone when lights out ..... Is this affirmative "Dinos"?
I know you've probably heard this before but only positive ID is with a microscope. Short of looking at them thru one you cant be 100% .... but yes stringers that disapear at night were typical of my ostreopsis dinos. I never had stringers longer than 3/4" however. That one you posted was very long compared to how mine were. And i never had stringers from the glass just rock and sand.


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Old 02/11/2016, 10:11 AM   #3050
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Many of us use hoses for years without issue. I don't see the connection there. If it wass contaminant, then the excessive water changes many of us attempt first to fix the issue would help, not hurt.

I'm not asserting that it's nitrogen gas fixation that's at the root of the issue. There's still no clarity on why some get cyano and others get dinos, for example. It may just be a race and the first to critical mass wins the tank.

I'm actually asking the experts if this theory sticks together and whether the data points really do align with it.


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