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Old 03/21/2016, 03:14 PM   #3401
Billybatz9
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So I have had dinos for a while and my 3 astrea snails. I thought this stuff killed them. Should I try maybe getting 50 of them and see if they eat them.


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Old 03/21/2016, 05:54 PM   #3402
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It's possible that the snails will eat dinoflagellates, but I'm skeptical. Most (but not all) people have very little luck with that approach.


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Old 03/21/2016, 05:56 PM   #3403
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Plus we know little about what makes them turn toxic. I've had a bunch of stuff like snails die. Other times, no deaths. So I dunno.


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Old 03/21/2016, 05:57 PM   #3404
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But I'll also add that I think conches are a better choice to clean a sandbed. ... Unless you're talking about walls and glass.


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Old 03/21/2016, 06:35 PM   #3405
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Sand is looking much better today after not adding the algae sheet for the tang. I'm almost convinced the sea veggies is feeding the dino.

I would love to know how many people have a dino problem and currently use Julian sprung sea veggies?


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Old 03/21/2016, 07:13 PM   #3406
taricha
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Wanted to bring this line of thought back up...
Quote:
Originally Posted by 34cygni View Post
at this point, DinoX may do nothing more than select for dinoflagellates that are immune to DinoX. ...

But all that having been said, the combination of UV + H2O2 was played with in 2013 and '14 and abandoned, perhaps because it wasn't yet apparent that when you knock your dinos back, you have to follow through to keep them down -- nobody has tried UV + DinoX that I'm aware of, so who knows?
and also another comment from this thread that I can't find. Someone said that they had some dinos, ran UV and it did nothing, then later they looked at the microscope to find that the species of dinos had changed.

Revisiting this in the light of what I found in a beaker a couple of days ago that I was using to grow out some dinos from my sand bed. It grew a nice healthy brown sand population of a different species of amphidinium (epicone curved to the side - very distinctive) than the one that is predominant in my tank.

So thinking back on it, my dino species count from my tank is 5:
  • one weird one I got a picture of long before I had an infestation, that I now recognize as a prorocentrum
  • amphidinium that started my infestation
  • coolia that infested the back of the tank while the amphidinium were in the front of the tank (they've since mixed all over)
  • a sample of brown slime from the top of a long-dead sps frag contained a few sesame seed shaped ostreopsis whirling around their pointed end (never seen them before or since.)
  • my beaker that grew a healthy infestation of a different amphidinium species.

The last 4 all co-occured during a single infestation event. I seriously doubt my tank is all that special. It's not like I scooped up sand samples from 10 different coasts and poured them in my tank. I would be shocked if most plagued tanks don't have at least a couple of different species active at the same time. Do dinos create a more favorable environment for other species of dinos? maybe. Maybe it's just a side effect of them clearing the ecological niche for themselves.
Furthermore, I'd bet there are a ton of different treatments that I could do on my tank that might have decimated the populations of 1 or 2 or 3 of out of the 4 confirmed species I've found in my tank in the current battle. And I would report that the attempted treatment either did nothing, did very little, or possibly seemed to get rid of 99% of the dinos, but "the dinos came back", when in reality I was killing some species and others were growing to replace.

On the other hand, Pants says most dinos people sent him were either Ostreopsis, amphidinium or prorocentrum - so maybe my tank is just weirdly diverse.


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Old 03/21/2016, 08:30 PM   #3407
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Sinful, this is something that I have raised question to also I never had Dino until I starting using the Two Little Fishies "Bulk Green Seaweed" and "Bulk Red Seaweed" I am suspicious of it being the intro to my tank. Wonder how many others can say the same thing?


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Old 03/21/2016, 08:57 PM   #3408
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Any food source can encourage microbial blooms. Algae products definitely can do that.


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Old 03/22/2016, 07:04 AM   #3409
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Update:

I'm more convinced that I had calothrix (I think that's the spelling) than dino's. Not saying that I didn't have some dinoflagellates, because at one point, I know I had them in my refugium.

I skimmed wet, I ran my carbon, and I shut the lights off for about 10 days, with the exception of a 90-120 minute window to feed my anemone and the fish. Would cover my tank with towels, and dose 12ml peroxide in the morning, and 12 ml in the evenings, typically about 8-10 hours apart between doses.

Did that for 10 days, and then ran my moonlights for 6 hours a day for the next 3 days. Ran my blues at 30% for the next 3 days and am on day 2 of 5% white, 25% blue for 8 hours. Rocks are completely clear of that fuzz that showed up out of the blue when I was using NOPOX.

I'm still skimming a bit wet, but not nearly as much. I've also been doing a series of small 10g water changes. PO4 reading 0, and my NO3 reading has gone up since the algae has been dying. Reading at 2ppm.

Am I winning? too early to say.

Did I absolutely have dino's? Don't know.

Are my rocks completely clear of all fuzz? yes, 100%.


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Old 03/22/2016, 04:38 PM   #3410
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Day 4 of blackout - sps starting to suffer, dinos appear to be all be dead in the display (or at least are now in the water column), however, I left the fuge light running this whole time and can clearly see dinos in the fuge on my chaeto....what do I do know? Cut the fuge light for a few days? I rinsed the chaeto in fresh water last night, but didn't seem to clear the dinos. I am going to start running actinics only tomorrow in the display I think...some slow stn on some corals is too concerning to continue going lights out...


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Old 03/22/2016, 05:17 PM   #3411
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Quote:
Originally Posted by koral_lover View Post
Day 4 of blackout - sps starting to suffer, dinos appear to be all be dead in the display (or at least are now in the water column), however, I left the fuge light running this whole time and can clearly see dinos in the fuge on my chaeto....what do I do know? Cut the fuge light for a few days? I rinsed the chaeto in fresh water last night, but didn't seem to clear the dinos. I am going to start running actinics only tomorrow in the display I think...some slow stn on some corals is too concerning to continue going lights out...

How did that freshwater rinse not remove dinos from chaeto???

If it just came back really quick, you should just keep rinsing and repeating. Seems your dinos are attracted to your chaeto in the lit refugium. This could be a good thing.


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Old 03/22/2016, 05:55 PM   #3412
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I am not sure how....I will keep rinsing the chaeto and siphoning dinos out of fuge area the next 24 hours and see if I can slow them down.


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Old 03/22/2016, 06:17 PM   #3413
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Today I am declaring my tank dino free at last! Five days now with lights back on full and can't find a live one anywhere. I have had a bit of a bacteria bloom and noticed some diatoms but nothing major and some algae is starting to grow again. Rocks are looking clear and replaced 10 micron sock with a normal one and no sign of browning. The smell has completely gone as well. All corals are doing really well. For everyone's enjoyment here are a couple of pics of the dead uns being eaten by bacteria Well I hope I managed to upload them!


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Old 03/22/2016, 06:23 PM   #3414
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Quote:
Originally Posted by koral_lover View Post
I am not sure how....I will keep rinsing the chaeto and siphoning dinos out of fuge area the next 24 hours and see if I can slow them down.
I got rid of mine in the cheato by removing it and keeping in complete darkness for 5 days and then rinsing it heavily in RO once the dino's seemed to have gone from the main tank and sump. I then added water from the skimmer for a couple of days before putting it back in. My theory is that if you remove the good bacteria from rinsing or dipping corals the dino's seem to get a better hold. Rinsing it without this seemed to just make them worse.


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Old 03/22/2016, 09:23 PM   #3415
robertifly
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Ok who was wanting some live dinos shipped to them to experiment on, I'll be glad to send some if you can tell me how to ship,, I'll even pay the charges just tell me how you like to have them, what kind to I have? UGLY seriously I haven't a clue. Robert


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Old 03/23/2016, 07:21 AM   #3416
nvladik
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joti26 View Post
Today I am declaring my tank dino free at last! Five days now with lights back on full and can't find a live one anywhere. I have had a bit of a bacteria bloom and noticed some diatoms but nothing major and some algae is starting to grow again. Rocks are looking clear and replaced 10 micron sock with a normal one and no sign of browning. The smell has completely gone as well. All corals are doing really well. For everyone's enjoyment here are a couple of pics of the dead uns being eaten by bacteria Well I hope I managed to upload them!
I'd wait a little more before making that declaration. My tank was dyno free (my thought and my mistake). I was adding Pods and Phyto daily for another week. Then a week later I noticed two small bubbles on one of my rocks (135g tank, so imagine how hard I looked for any at all bubbles). 2 more weeks pass and dynos are back.

Not trying to discourage you or say you are not dyno free, just keep doing what you were doing, don't stop like I did.


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Old 03/23/2016, 07:32 AM   #3417
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nvladik View Post
I'd wait a little more before making that declaration. My tank was dyno free (my thought and my mistake). I was adding Pods and Phyto daily for another week. Then a week later I noticed two small bubbles on one of my rocks (135g tank, so imagine how hard I looked for any at all bubbles). 2 more weeks pass and dynos are back.

Not trying to discourage you or say you are not dyno free, just keep doing what you were doing, don't stop like I did.
Doh! Right filter socks back in then!


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Old 03/23/2016, 04:37 PM   #3418
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I think socks contribute to dinos ... IMO


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Old 03/23/2016, 04:50 PM   #3419
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Quote:
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I think socks contribute to dinos ... IMO
Why's that?


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Old 03/23/2016, 05:10 PM   #3420
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If they're fine, they trap dinos as well as pods, detritus, and food waste. It's like a Petri dish of waste. With the right conditions, that feeds the dinos.

Unless the mesh is superfine, the dinos are not trapped. So it's like a pass through buffet with guaranteed food.

It's a philosophy in keeping reefs for me. Everything in my tank replicates a function in nature. I have only two exceptions... Carbon and GFO. Everything else mimics a natural system.


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Old 03/23/2016, 05:58 PM   #3421
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If the socks are cleaned daily or so, their effect should be small. Otherwise, they might favor some bacterial populations over other organisms due to the high flow and separation from the substrate and live rock.


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Old 03/23/2016, 06:18 PM   #3422
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true. who cleans their socks daily?




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Old 03/23/2016, 06:57 PM   #3423
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Quote:
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... another comment from this thread that I can't find. Someone said that they had some dinos, ran UV and it did nothing, then later they looked at the microscope to find that the species of dinos had changed.
this was the post I was referring to...
Quote:
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So in an unexpected result slow flow UV killed my Osteopsis and now another type has taken its place and seems to not make strings and stay more on the sand. Even when my return pump was out i never saw strings just heavy dusting.
So just a heads up... if you havent looked under the scope in a while it might be valuable info to take a recent look.
Fishkeeper mentioned in a PM he later ID'd the new ones as amphidinium. From my experience, not a super toxic type. If I had Ostis, and could trade them for amphidinium by running UV - I'd do it every time.


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Old 03/23/2016, 07:03 PM   #3424
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Any updates on my Dino sample, Taricha?


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Old 03/23/2016, 08:05 PM   #3425
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Quote:
Originally Posted by karimwassef View Post
If they're fine, they trap dinos as well as pods, detritus, and food waste. It's like a Petri dish of waste. With the right conditions, that feeds the dinos.

Unless the mesh is superfine, the dinos are not trapped. So it's like a pass through buffet with guaranteed food.

It's a philosophy in keeping reefs for me. Everything in my tank replicates a function in nature. I have only two exceptions... Carbon and GFO. Everything else mimics a natural system.
They are 10 micron and changed them daily while I had the dino's.


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