Reef Central Online Community
The Filter Guys

Home Forum Here you can view your subscribed threads, work with private messages and edit your profile and preferences View New Posts View Today's Posts

Find other members Frequently Asked Questions Search Reefkeeping ...an online magazine for marine aquarists Support our sponsors and mention Reef Central

Go Back   Reef Central Online Community > General Interest Forums > The Reef Chemistry Forum
Register Blogs FAQ Calendar Mark Forums Read

Notices

Reply
Thread Tools
Old 06/11/2016, 11:04 AM   #3751
mannyhernz
Registered Member
 
mannyhernz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: los angeles
Posts: 553
Quote:
Originally Posted by taricha View Post
Rereading your earlier posts, you did Heavy feeding + 3 day blackout + live phyto + pods?

In my tank, as the dinos in the sand disappeared, the amount of biodiversity in the sand went through the roof. Now without dinos, the sand has less critters - as though part of the sandbed bio-explosion was due to the availability of dinos as a food source. Now they've been gone for a while, my sandbed is less alive. I've wondered if this makes me susceptible to another dino sandbed episode.

Any chance your pods population is now gone and the dinos are thriving without the grazers?

Also, you mentioned after your dinos left being annoyed by GHA, what if anything did you end up doing to curb the GHA?
I see allot of pods still left. They are eveywhere in the display. Also have them in the fuge area.
I did go through the bad GHA but when i introduced more chaeto and some phsguard it subsided. What i did notice is that my chaeto ball started shrinking after dinos appeared. Why would that be?

Sent from my LGLS990 using Tapatalk


mannyhernz is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 06/11/2016, 11:18 AM   #3752
matt_97055
Registered Member
 
matt_97055's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Sandy Oregon
Posts: 180
Yes it's in high flow areas too. It has started to loose it's color and thin out a bit. I hoping it's starting to die off.

sent from a Samsung note 4


__________________
70gal. under construction! Have 99% of that parts, the only thing left is money.
matt_97055 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 06/11/2016, 11:30 AM   #3753
karimwassef
Registered Member
 
karimwassef's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Dallas, TX
Posts: 10,552
Quote:
Originally Posted by mannyhernz View Post
Well guys...caught the dinos again...this is frustrating. Dont even know where or how they came back..started off with a little dusting then 2 days later full on dinos. Shet.
I think it's important to understand this. Causes for relapse or maybe a mistaken remission are key to better understanding these protist's abilities.

So, we think that the infection starts with very clean conditions without normal algae and a decimated biodiversity. Younger immature systems are the most susceptible... ULNS for example, excessive continuous heavy skimming, no feeding, Lanthanun Chloride, use of algaecides, chemicals that kill the biofauna, dead rock missing the normal host of bacteria and pods, etc...

For a previously clean system to go back your require an offset in the biological balance and negligence usually creates a bias towards an algae tank, not a dino tank. It should take active effort to get sick again.

What did you do/not do for the weeks before it came back?


__________________
Failure isn't an option It's a requirement. 660g 380inwall+280smp/surge S/L/Soft/Maxima/RBTA/Clown/Chromis/Anthias/Tang/Mandarin/Jawfish/Goby/Wrasse/D'back. DIY 12' Skimmer ActuatedSurge ConcreteScape
karimwassef is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 06/11/2016, 12:07 PM   #3754
karimwassef
Registered Member
 
karimwassef's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Dallas, TX
Posts: 10,552
I'm facing a different issue. I have cyano due to my tank being exposed to the elements and absorbing mountains of insects. I also have a very hungry tank so cutting back on feeding is a problem.

Since dinos usually come with Cyano, I wonder if anyone has tried killing the cyano and measure the impact on dinos.

I've never used chemicals in my tank, except Lanthanum and that precipitated my Dino infestation... So I'm hesitant to go there again.

However, due to the excess cyano in my sump and the unknown black algae (cyano+??) in my DT, I'm using chemiclean to break up the cyano and the resulting red slime. I hope it'll break up the black algae too.

I'm turning my monster skimmer on 24/7 but at a low height to avoid overflows. I'm also turning my UV off... Here we go...


__________________
Failure isn't an option It's a requirement. 660g 380inwall+280smp/surge S/L/Soft/Maxima/RBTA/Clown/Chromis/Anthias/Tang/Mandarin/Jawfish/Goby/Wrasse/D'back. DIY 12' Skimmer ActuatedSurge ConcreteScape
karimwassef is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 06/12/2016, 11:50 AM   #3755
StrangeDejavu
Registered Member
 
StrangeDejavu's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: Palm Harbor, FL
Posts: 416
Just thought i'd post an update. It's been 2 weeks since the blackout. Over the course of those two weeks, I very slowly went from blues at 1% up to full spectrum 17000K at 50% for 3 hours a day. I plan on bumping it up to 4 hours per day next week. I stopped phyto dosing as it started smelling really foul, but I will continue dosing Microbacter7 after each water change.

I also came home with 5 frags yesterday. Everything appears to be happy in my tank so far, to my relief. I'm still reluctant to celebrate, but I am feeling cautiously optimistic. I'll post another update in the future as to whether the blackout/biobomb method stuck long term.




__________________
BioCube 29 - AI Prime - MP10QD
StrangeDejavu is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06/12/2016, 12:31 PM   #3756
karimwassef
Registered Member
 
karimwassef's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Dallas, TX
Posts: 10,552
Quote:
Originally Posted by StrangeDejavu View Post
Just thought i'd post an update. It's been 2 weeks since the blackout. Over the course of those two weeks, I very slowly went from blues at 1% up to full spectrum 17000K at 50% for 3 hours a day. I plan on bumping it up to 4 hours per day next week. I stopped phyto dosing as it started smelling really foul, but I will continue dosing Microbacter7 after each water change.

I also came home with 5 frags yesterday. Everything appears to be happy in my tank so far, to my relief. I'm still reluctant to celebrate, but I am feeling cautiously optimistic. I'll post another update in the future as to whether the blackout/biobomb method stuck long term.

Looks great, Strange.


__________________
Failure isn't an option It's a requirement. 660g 380inwall+280smp/surge S/L/Soft/Maxima/RBTA/Clown/Chromis/Anthias/Tang/Mandarin/Jawfish/Goby/Wrasse/D'back. DIY 12' Skimmer ActuatedSurge ConcreteScape
karimwassef is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 06/12/2016, 12:35 PM   #3757
karimwassef
Registered Member
 
karimwassef's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Dallas, TX
Posts: 10,552
So for anyone who hasn't tried Chemi-clean (my first)... It was a little nuts!

It literally looks like soap!!!

 photo C5A2FA12-B435-4FA7-A1D2-A7D7718F1AF1_zpsoba8kvsn.jpg

 photo 62159C78-0222-4394-A17E-0AF315E6C7D6_zpsoj8rl8lw.jpg

 photo EA6E615A-1B57-46B7-8C10-1C3537FB77FF_zpsrbh2jbnc.jpg

But my corals look great with polyps out... fish are good too. Now I wait for 48 hours.

I think it's some kind of flocculant?? It has a strong effect on surface tension, I can see that in the way the water looks against the top... like an oil, or a film is making it very smooth and clear until it gets roughed up... then bubbles like crazy.

well - learning together...


__________________
Failure isn't an option It's a requirement. 660g 380inwall+280smp/surge S/L/Soft/Maxima/RBTA/Clown/Chromis/Anthias/Tang/Mandarin/Jawfish/Goby/Wrasse/D'back. DIY 12' Skimmer ActuatedSurge ConcreteScape
karimwassef is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 06/12/2016, 01:02 PM   #3758
taricha
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: NE Miss
Posts: 524
I thought it was an antibiotic.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I337 using Tapatalk


taricha is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06/12/2016, 01:07 PM   #3759
matt_97055
Registered Member
 
matt_97055's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Sandy Oregon
Posts: 180
Quote:
Originally Posted by karimwassef View Post
So for anyone who hasn't tried Chemi-clean (my first)... It was a little nuts!

It literally looks like soap!!!

 photo C5A2FA12-B435-4FA7-A1D2-A7D7718F1AF1_zpsoba8kvsn.jpg

 photo 62159C78-0222-4394-A17E-0AF315E6C7D6_zpsoj8rl8lw.jpg

 photo EA6E615A-1B57-46B7-8C10-1C3537FB77FF_zpsrbh2jbnc.jpg

But my corals look great with polyps out... fish are good too. Now I wait for 48 hours.

I think it's some kind of flocculant?? It has a strong effect on surface tension, I can see that in the way the water looks against the top... like an oil, or a film is making it very smooth and clear until it gets roughed up... then bubbles like crazy.

well - learning together...
When ever I do chem clear I take the top off my skimmer and open it wide open. My sump will overflow with foam some times. I think it's funny

sent from a Samsung note 4


__________________
70gal. under construction! Have 99% of that parts, the only thing left is money.
matt_97055 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 06/12/2016, 04:20 PM   #3760
karimwassef
Registered Member
 
karimwassef's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Dallas, TX
Posts: 10,552
I turned my skimmer height down since my skimmer is terrestrial (sits on the ground).

The water/soap bubble level is at about 7 ft instead of the usual 10 ft.


__________________
Failure isn't an option It's a requirement. 660g 380inwall+280smp/surge S/L/Soft/Maxima/RBTA/Clown/Chromis/Anthias/Tang/Mandarin/Jawfish/Goby/Wrasse/D'back. DIY 12' Skimmer ActuatedSurge ConcreteScape
karimwassef is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 06/14/2016, 07:41 AM   #3761
TampaSnooker
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Land O Lakes, FL
Posts: 1,385
That's typical with CC use. I maintain several aquaria in their second and third decades and find that it is a nice cheat on occasion on tanks when they start to lose efficiency processing nutrients. Dial back the skimmer and skim wet for a few hours when it is time to remove the CC. It comes out quickly. I thought it was an oxidizer; some claim it is simply EM in another form.

I now have an infestation that is likely Gambiordiscus - an autotroph that was initiated by the customer's sloppy use of cleaning products. Several months of warning about using far too strong solutions on the floor and the possibility of sterilizing the bacteria in the tank and here we are. I'd just been following the thread for fun as of late, looks like I'm back in... Started with blackout since it is an autotroph, but day 3 and we still don't have much to report. I want to use H2O2 but the tank is full of RBTA and I understand they are sensitive to peroxide.


__________________
With fronds like these, who needs anemones?
TampaSnooker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06/14/2016, 12:58 PM   #3762
mannyhernz
Registered Member
 
mannyhernz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: los angeles
Posts: 553
Started dosing h202, see how that works oit


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


mannyhernz is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 06/14/2016, 01:55 PM   #3763
PorkchopExpress
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Wrigleyville
Posts: 103
Quote:
Originally Posted by taricha View Post
I thought it was an antibiotic.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I337 using Tapatalk
no one knows what exactly is in it but most think it's basically erhythromycin, the same stuff we take for bacterial infections

and no it doesn't look like soap by itself (karim, did you overdose?)...it's an oxidizer and makes your skimmer go nuts hence the bubbles...if your skimmer was off and you add cc, it would not look like that...i sometimes will add a spoonful of cc into fresh saltwater once a month or so and it keeps the cyano away


PorkchopExpress is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06/14/2016, 02:17 PM   #3764
taricha
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: NE Miss
Posts: 524
Quote:
Originally Posted by PorkchopExpress View Post
no one knows what exactly is in it but most think it's basically erhythromycin, the same stuff we take for bacterial infections

..it's an oxidizer and makes your skimmer go nuts hence the bubbles
Ok. The other big caution I've heard thrown out a few times (without evidence) was that it causes a rapid dramatic DROP in dissolved oxygen, which is totally contradictory to it being an oxidizer.
Has anyone seen any evidence/measurements to support any of these guesses?


taricha is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06/14/2016, 02:35 PM   #3765
bertoni
RC Mod
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Mountain View, CA, USA
Posts: 85,512
Erythromycin is an antibiotic, not an oxidizer. It's more likely to be a bit of a reducing agent, actually. I've never measured oxygen in conjunction with dosing an antibiotic, but I doubt there's be much change unless there was a very large amount of decaying cyanobacteria remnants in the water column.

That said, adding oxidizers can lead to a drop the oxygen level in a tank if the oxidizers kill enough organisms.


__________________
Jonathan Bertoni
bertoni is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06/14/2016, 03:22 PM   #3766
karimwassef
Registered Member
 
karimwassef's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Dallas, TX
Posts: 10,552
My tank is different than most. I have an extreme level of oxygenation/surface agitation and I've just added even more.

I lowered my skimmer down to 6 "feet"... To be clear = 72" of water and foam. That's down from the usual 10ft. I have 2000gph flowing through the skimmer and circulating foam inside it at ~4500gph and sucking in about 5gal/min of fresh air.

I use a surge that agitates 40gals in 3 seconds

I have 4 x WP60s creating 3" waves

I use 4 x surface flow diverters

I just added a 24" x 24" ATS screen that creates a thin film surface over 8 sqft of mesh flowing at 3000gph

So... With all that, my oxygenation is probably ridiculous.

The CC caused a thick foam and ALL my coral polyps to open up to the extreme. It was ridiculous. Like a polyp party...

This stayed for three days with actual noticeable growth in some of my SPS. I can't describe it, but it's as if they were being held back and then suddenly sprung out...

It slowly subsided and I ran a water change last night... Skimmer back to normal.

Everything looks fantastic!

Cyano completely gone- even under the sand / against the glass - wish I had taken some before pics.

The black algae I had broke apart... I think it was a matrix organism made of cyano, hair and other things. But the cyano was the binding agent since it can grow over other organisms.

In 24hrs, the stuff was blowing away and the crabs were feasting on the material underneath it. They were literally mobbing the areas where it had been. Why didn't they do that before???

Anyway... My tank's response to chemiclean was outstanding...

My corals never looked so good. Heck, the algae in my chaeto box and ATS look better and healthier!!!! Yes- I am excited about the health of my algae..

I don't know what's in it but I bet it's a combination antibiotic and flocculant. It has a visibly power effect of the air/water interface ... Almost like a clear film.

I don't know how other tanks react to it, but if I am pretty sure that this stuff can kill a tank without surface agitation. It would "seal" up the tank's surfaces and suffocate it without the hyper-surface agitation.

If you want to try it, I recommend creating a reactor region where you pass the water through a large volume container (maybe a Rubbermaid tub?) and agitate it like a blender with powerheads, air stones, and dump surges... And then circulate as much water through this "lung" as you can. You should agitate the surface of your tank too, but if you're not getting the "soap" bubbles effect, you're probably not there yet.


__________________
Failure isn't an option It's a requirement. 660g 380inwall+280smp/surge S/L/Soft/Maxima/RBTA/Clown/Chromis/Anthias/Tang/Mandarin/Jawfish/Goby/Wrasse/D'back. DIY 12' Skimmer ActuatedSurge ConcreteScape
karimwassef is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 06/14/2016, 03:25 PM   #3767
karimwassef
Registered Member
 
karimwassef's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Dallas, TX
Posts: 10,552
Or just put your skimmer in your sump and run it open top (as many have commented).

I just think the more suds, the better.


__________________
Failure isn't an option It's a requirement. 660g 380inwall+280smp/surge S/L/Soft/Maxima/RBTA/Clown/Chromis/Anthias/Tang/Mandarin/Jawfish/Goby/Wrasse/D'back. DIY 12' Skimmer ActuatedSurge ConcreteScape
karimwassef is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 06/14/2016, 03:39 PM   #3768
karimwassef
Registered Member
 
karimwassef's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Dallas, TX
Posts: 10,552
My skimmer: (sorry- needs multiple shots)

 photo BBC3548B-3CF2-44DF-9B5C-65B388EAFB33_zpshpfnzb51.jpg

 photo 89C9221E-105A-4837-8AE1-27C2971F523D_zpsnm8hsaql.jpg

 photo 320F8392-4BE8-4695-B1E9-F0C67309ABDC_zpstpgbvfnu.jpg

 photo FC19F6E3-4EDC-4186-9971-A607076A04BE_zpsfppdvfbp.jpg

 photo 32E0B442-C949-4CE5-B0C1-5FF9C353E0A9_zpshuoz8y0d.jpg

 photo 26F0C07C-EF53-4952-9591-5200D91049BE_zps5huozlyp.jpg

My waterfall ATS:

 photo AC326EA1-8A5C-4D8F-A019-DBEBBB9C1CF6_zps8e0e1sxt.jpg

My surface diverters:

 photo 0297F2A0-44C3-432B-9386-24A33284C805_zpsz2gj5mo6.jpg

My surge:

 photo 23a7c041-0ac6-4b01-bc5c-a86c935e04ae_zpstaonouj1.jpg

 photo 74E799A6-59B9-4CCE-90DA-30AFF48D0554_zpsty4m3yrf.jpg

My powerheads:


__________________
Failure isn't an option It's a requirement. 660g 380inwall+280smp/surge S/L/Soft/Maxima/RBTA/Clown/Chromis/Anthias/Tang/Mandarin/Jawfish/Goby/Wrasse/D'back. DIY 12' Skimmer ActuatedSurge ConcreteScape
karimwassef is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 06/14/2016, 06:52 PM   #3769
karimwassef
Registered Member
 
karimwassef's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Dallas, TX
Posts: 10,552
last night, after dark, I noticed that one of my corals was still really extending its polyps and producing a ton of mucus.. no idea if it's related to the CC

 photo 31CC22EA-F24C-43D1-AB31-EBF15E260F81_zpsrzy8r6gr.jpg


__________________
Failure isn't an option It's a requirement. 660g 380inwall+280smp/surge S/L/Soft/Maxima/RBTA/Clown/Chromis/Anthias/Tang/Mandarin/Jawfish/Goby/Wrasse/D'back. DIY 12' Skimmer ActuatedSurge ConcreteScape
karimwassef is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 06/14/2016, 07:18 PM   #3770
Ted_C
Registered Member
 
Ted_C's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Clearwater FL
Posts: 1,957
Thats no skimmer. Its a space station. Holy Crow!


__________________
150 Gal Quarantine. 310 Main Display Tank
Reefing since 2012
Ted_C is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06/14/2016, 08:35 PM   #3771
jason2459
Registered Member

 
jason2459's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Iowa
Posts: 9,650
Karim since you dosed the chemiclean check out Dr. Tim's Eco Balance. Dump some in mid afternoon as it will plummet the pH as I've found there to be lots of active bacteria and not a bunch of other filler stuff. Of the few I've looked at up close it's the only one I'd recommend so far. I want to buy more bacteria in a bottle and look at them too.


__________________
rebuild and recovery log:
No more red house, you'll have to click on my name and visit my homepage!

You can check out my parameters at reeftronics dot net website and look for my username.

Current Tank Info: 180g mixed reef w/ a beananimal overflow to a dolomite RRUGF. | 20g long G. Smithii Mantis Tank
jason2459 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06/14/2016, 08:39 PM   #3772
karimwassef
Registered Member
 
karimwassef's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Dallas, TX
Posts: 10,552
I tried Dr Tim's last month. I bought two bottles. Each is 2 treatments for my tank. I tried it three times but without much benefit that I could see. I still have half a bottle left.

Maybe after CC, the tank is better prepared for a different strain of bacteria...


__________________
Failure isn't an option It's a requirement. 660g 380inwall+280smp/surge S/L/Soft/Maxima/RBTA/Clown/Chromis/Anthias/Tang/Mandarin/Jawfish/Goby/Wrasse/D'back. DIY 12' Skimmer ActuatedSurge ConcreteScape
karimwassef is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 06/14/2016, 08:41 PM   #3773
karimwassef
Registered Member
 
karimwassef's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Dallas, TX
Posts: 10,552
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ted_C View Post
Thats no skimmer. Its a space station. Holy Crow!
Yes. When I look up at it, I hear the "2001 A Space Odyssey" theme


__________________
Failure isn't an option It's a requirement. 660g 380inwall+280smp/surge S/L/Soft/Maxima/RBTA/Clown/Chromis/Anthias/Tang/Mandarin/Jawfish/Goby/Wrasse/D'back. DIY 12' Skimmer ActuatedSurge ConcreteScape
karimwassef is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 06/14/2016, 08:42 PM   #3774
jason2459
Registered Member

 
jason2459's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Iowa
Posts: 9,650
Quote:
Originally Posted by karimwassef View Post
I tried Dr Tim's last month. I bought two bottles. Each is 2 treatments for my tank. I tried it three times but without much benefit that I could see. I still have half a bottle left.

Maybe after CC, the tank is better prepared for a different strain of bacteria...

Which Dr. Tim's? I did not like the look of what was in the One and Only. I didn't see anything alive at all and lots of detritus.

The Eco Balance was full of life and clean looking liquid.

Only reason I suggest it is if the chemi clean is an antibiotic an infusion of lively little cells may be good.


__________________
rebuild and recovery log:
No more red house, you'll have to click on my name and visit my homepage!

You can check out my parameters at reeftronics dot net website and look for my username.

Current Tank Info: 180g mixed reef w/ a beananimal overflow to a dolomite RRUGF. | 20g long G. Smithii Mantis Tank
jason2459 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06/14/2016, 08:44 PM   #3775
jason2459
Registered Member

 
jason2459's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Iowa
Posts: 9,650
Quote:
Originally Posted by karimwassef View Post
Yes. When I look up at it, I hear the "2001 A Space Odyssey" theme
More like...





__________________
rebuild and recovery log:
No more red house, you'll have to click on my name and visit my homepage!

You can check out my parameters at reeftronics dot net website and look for my username.

Current Tank Info: 180g mixed reef w/ a beananimal overflow to a dolomite RRUGF. | 20g long G. Smithii Mantis Tank
jason2459 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 10:57 AM.


TapaTalk Enabled

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Powered by Searchlight © 2017 Axivo Inc.
Use of this web site is subject to the terms and conditions described in the user agreement.
Reef CentralTM Reef Central, LLC. Copyright 1999-2014