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Old 04/27/2015, 08:57 PM   #1001
raidendex
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What's the lifespan of these things assuming they do not split?


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Old 04/28/2015, 12:49 AM   #1002
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That would be the cyst stage.
100 years are possible.


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Old 04/28/2015, 06:32 AM   #1003
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Well if they do not do that either? Seems like they are going away somewhere at night and multiply during the day. But since numbers during the day do not seem to be growing they have to be dying, i. e. there is about same amount of them at the end of they day. Actually smaller now that I turned off the light in the sump.


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Old 04/28/2015, 11:12 AM   #1004
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They are free swimming in the water column during the dark hours like most plankton.
Dinos life cycle is not black and white.




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Old 04/28/2015, 11:16 AM   #1005
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I know this part, but it does not say if the cell ever just dies. Are they immortal and will always either split in two or form a cyst to later come back and split in two. Or well merge with another and later produce few cells etc.


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Old 04/28/2015, 11:55 AM   #1006
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The reason for lack of good information on the life cycle question could be because of the complexity of keeping a single cell alive and away from dividing.
For obvious reasons tracking a single cell in a soup of clones is impossible and what will you do when they divide?

A culture is a workable group of dinos or bacteria in the lab and that's how I think researchers see them.
I may have read somewhere about a culture that survived for 3 weeks, but don't take my word for it.

My guess would be days not weeks.


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Old 04/29/2015, 02:00 PM   #1007
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Quote:
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Identify your dinos first before anything else.
http://www.algaeid.com/identification/
Ok, so I finally got a chance to scrape some of the slime out of my tank and put under my son's microscope. Eh, I'm not sure the scope is strong enough - this is what I see:



Does this look like anything or do I need a stronger scope?


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Old 04/29/2015, 02:05 PM   #1008
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I can't really make anything out there, maybe need higher magnification or maybe it's not focused on the right thing?

Even under about 25x magnification I can make out individual cells pretty easy, so you should be able to see something unless it's a toy microscope. Try focusing past what's on that image, maybe that's just top of the glass or something. I see some more blobs of brown stuff behind it that are out of focus, maybe that is something.


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Old 04/29/2015, 08:19 PM   #1009
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Quote:
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I can't really make anything out there, maybe need higher magnification or maybe it's not focused on the right thing?

Even under about 25x magnification I can make out individual cells pretty easy, so you should be able to see something unless it's a toy microscope. Try focusing past what's on that image, maybe that's just top of the glass or something. I see some more blobs of brown stuff behind it that are out of focus, maybe that is something.
Yea it's a kids scope. I checked and it's 20x power.
I did it twice and focused properly and that's all I could get from it.

I guess I really need to understand what type I have before I can fight it.


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Old 04/30/2015, 03:52 PM   #1010
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I turned my Calcium reactor and Kalkwasser stirrer off for a week.
This meant there was no Alkalinity, Calcium or CO2 being added.

The skimmer only produced around 25% of what it normally does.
I link that mostly to the lesser amount of CO2, resulting in less plankton.
I was hoping there were less dinos in the cup than ususal since there were more on the sanbed at night at first.

Cyanobacteria on dinos doubled.
Cheatomorpha grew very well.


I found this to be the most interesting part of the experiment.
Date......... Ph.... C.... Ca... Alk....Mg
23.04.15.... 8,5... 27... 370... 7...... 1260 - Just before I turned them off.
25.04.15.... 8,3... 27... 430... 5,7
27.04.15.... 8,3... 27... 430... 5,4
29.04.15.... 8,25.. 28... 420... 5,1... 1320 -

Notice the increase in Ca measured.
I'm going to have another round shortly.
If it the results repeat themselves this will have a significant meaning.

---

I'm getting really tired of this battle.
Right now I just want to put the IMPOSSIBLE stamp on the whole thing.



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Old 04/30/2015, 04:46 PM   #1011
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I've been running no sump light a over a week now with filter socks changed every day before lights come on (catching whatever floated off during the previous day and mainly night). Yesterday I got some better filter socks so now I am running 50 microns ones, should get 1 micron one soon enough. With better filter socks in place I also did a bit of stirring up of the tank by using extra pump to block off dinos from all the surfaces.

I would say that mechanical filtering and making sure dinos do not have a spot to always divide seem to be working out well for now. Numbers have decreased significantly in the tank. Sand bed actually looks pretty white. Not sure if this will be enough to ever get rid of them, but with this constant attack on dinos, I am hoping for something else to step in and take over, like some good old algae lol

Still need to add the GFO reactor, will probably go do it right now. But other than that only thing I am waiting to try is lower micro filter socks, although even 200 caught decent amount, 50 are much better though.


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Old 05/01/2015, 04:22 AM   #1012
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A few weeks ago I did the nutrition thing that is supposed to cause dino blooms in the ocean. I had the sump and live rock gather all the detritus/debris they could hold and then over a week or so blew them off into the water column again and again.

Guess what happened to the dinos?
Nothing. Nothing at all.

4 pounds (2Kg) of Cheatomorpha was removed shortly after.


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Old 05/01/2015, 04:51 AM   #1013
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.

I've done so many experiments and tests in my search for some kind of grip on Ostreopsis dinoflagellates that it makes my head spin.
I've documented most of them here for others to get ideas and knowledge from.

After years of research I think this is the end of the road for me.
This is such a complex problem it's solution is out of reach for hobbyists and individual scientists.

A group of dedicated and highly educated scientists with unlimited funds for a few years could perhaps get some useful results.
Until that happens there are a couple of options.

1. Live with it.
2. Dump ALL your livestock and start again.


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Old 05/01/2015, 05:05 AM   #1014
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I am sure now.
After six months and five ostreopsis blooms the best strategy to fight these dinos is just foster other living forms.

A month ago I started dosing phytoplankton gel on a 120 ml/day basis (split in 24 doses with a peristaltic pump to avoid nutrient peaks and maintain a constant amount over time). Two weeks later I started to see thousands of pods, little snails, worms...and no algae at all. NO3 and PO4 tests keep at undetectable levels thought the heavy phytoplankton feeding (because all the new critters keep up with it and nothing is being accumulated). These pods and snails ate ostreopsis clumps like crazy and now my 600 gal system is dino and algae free, thousands of copepods, red planaria, collonista snails...even trochus snails are breeding (I have seen some baby trochus).

Other thing that helped me a lot was switching off the skimmer.

I have no doubt as well that the use of PO4 resins like Phosguard are one of the triggering factors when talking about dino blooms. Every time I have used it I have noticed an increase in ostreopsis and amphidinum.

My tanks sit in the sun, in Spain. I was concerned about the increase of light and rise of temperatures now in spring time. But I still don't see any dinoflagellates anywhere.

I will keep dosing phytoplankton but I will lower down the dose to 80 ml/day


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Old 05/01/2015, 05:39 AM   #1015
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DNA View Post
.

I've done so many experiments and tests in my search for some kind of grip on Ostreopsis dinoflagellates that it makes my head spin.
I've documented most of them here for others to get ideas and knowledge from.

After years of research I think this is the end of the road for me.
This is such a complex problem it's solution is out of reach for hobbyists and individual scientists.

A group of dedicated and highly educated scientists with unlimited funds for a few years could perhaps get some useful results.
Until that happens there are a couple of options.

1. Live with it.
2. Dump ALL your livestock and start again.
I fully agree.

But....
Let's suppose you choose option 2 and start over. Figure out you get a single ostreopsis cell some weeks later, a hitchhiker with a fish, coral or even a snail. That single ostreopsis cell would quickly thrive in a non mature system rapidly causing a bloom and ruining everything again.

I think that the key is biodiversity and matureness. These are the best weapons agains an eventual dino incursion in our tanks.

As an example of this: I have a eight months 600 gal system with almost no rock nor sand (a propagation ULNS) and a 150 old and full of rock and sand system with all kind of corals and a few small algae patches; in this system I run an underrated small skimmer while in the 600 gal system I run a huge skimmer rated for more than 1.000 gals of water.
Both systems got infected almost at the same time, the mature one with the small skimmer got cleaned in a few weeks and never watch a new bloom, but on the big pristine system with low biodiversity and a huge skimmer I have had five ostreopsis blooms and the problem has lasted for almost six months.


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Old 05/01/2015, 04:04 PM   #1016
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DNA View Post
.

I've done so many experiments and tests in my search for some kind of grip on Ostreopsis dinoflagellates that it makes my head spin.
I've documented most of them here for others to get ideas and knowledge from.

After years of research I think this is the end of the road for me.
This is such a complex problem it's solution is out of reach for hobbyists and individual scientists.

A group of dedicated and highly educated scientists with unlimited funds for a few years could perhaps get some useful results.
Until that happens there are a couple of options.

1. Live with it.
2. Dump ALL your livestock and start again.

Did you try my kordon ich attack treatment DNA? I swear it works, you would probably need to buy it in a 1 gallon jug to be effective in your tank. To dose the same as mine you would need to dose about 1.25 cup during lights on and 1.25 cup during lights out.


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Old 05/01/2015, 04:09 PM   #1017
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I might give that a go on my fish only system (well old frag tank that I now have shut down), I do have some dinos there so could try it without risking loosing corals in the main tank


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Old 05/01/2015, 04:35 PM   #1018
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my tank is full of corals the ich attack didnt hurt any of them


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Old 05/01/2015, 04:46 PM   #1019
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Well if it doesn't work in fish only no reason to try with corals


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Old 05/01/2015, 10:44 PM   #1020
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Kordon approach also worked for me (didn't kill them all but got rid of most of them). None of my over 300 corals suffered at all, they didn't even increase the slime coat in a noticeable way)


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Old 05/02/2015, 06:19 AM   #1021
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Quote:
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Kordon approach also worked for me (didn't kill them all but got rid of most of them). None of my over 300 corals suffered at all, they didn't even increase the slime coat in a noticeable way)
How much did you dose?, did you run UV while dosing?


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Old 05/02/2015, 06:36 AM   #1022
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Seven bottles along the week (1/2 in the morning and 1/2 in the evening when lights off).
Two UV sterilizers (55 W and 11W on)
Total system 600 gal.


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Old 05/02/2015, 06:39 AM   #1023
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I noticed results in the first hours, but as soon as I stopped dosing they came back.

I got the best results stopping the skimmer and feeding with phytoplankton gel
This fostered new live, everything soon got covered with small feather dusters, tube worms, copepods, snails...that devoured the ostreopsis cells


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Old 05/02/2015, 02:01 PM   #1024
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What's phytoplankton gel?

On my part, I have to say that heavy mechanical filtration and agitation of the dinos off the surfaces seem to be working quite well. Possibly along with blacking out the fuge for days, allowing dinos to replicate only in the DT portion of the system.

All I really do is change the filter sock each morning. So far I blew dinos of the rocks and walls of the tank only once few days ago. I do have fairly strong circulation and open rock structure in the tank (run two gyre pumps). Today I only see few faint patches of dinos here and there, but definitely not as heavy as it was a bit over a week ago. I will shoot a quick video just to shot progress from now to the future I suppose and post it here in a bit.


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Old 05/02/2015, 02:10 PM   #1025
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Easy Booster from the manufacturer Easyreefs. Not sure if you can get it in the States.

It's not about removing dinoflagellates, the point is stopping them breed. If you slow down the pumps it will be easier to deal with them (strong streams only make them spread and thrive everywhere in the tank. You'd better slow down the pumps and suck them out twice a day (or as needed) with a little hose and a sock tied to its end and into the sump (to avoid necessity of water changes)


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