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Old 07/23/2015, 08:10 PM   #1376
Adrnalnrsh
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Oh the dinos are there. You can tell they're symbiotic. I ordered pods and pods +


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Old 07/23/2015, 09:25 PM   #1377
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There is no "cure". Dinos are a natural part of every ecosystem. Some species can explode and cause a crisis, so the required result is to push them back into their natural state - under control.

You can never kill the genie. You can only put him back in the bottle and don't rub the bottle ever again.


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Old 07/23/2015, 11:47 PM   #1378
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Hi guys. Is it safe to dose Hydrogen Peroxide while dosing carbon?


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Old 07/24/2015, 08:45 AM   #1379
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Why are you dosing carbon when you have dinos? That is usually an initiator of the dino bloom.


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Old 07/24/2015, 10:21 AM   #1380
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Why are you dosing carbon when you have dinos? That is usually an initiator of the dino bloom.
Did I say I have Dino? I was just curious.


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Old 07/24/2015, 11:37 AM   #1381
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Did I say I have Dino? I was just curious.
If your curious, give it a try and report back.


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Old 07/24/2015, 12:59 PM   #1382
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Quote:
Originally Posted by karimwassef View Post
There is no "cure". Dinos are a natural part of every ecosystem. Some species can explode and cause a crisis, so the required result is to push them back into their natural state - under control.

You can never kill the genie. You can only put him back in the bottle and don't rub the bottle ever again.
That's fine. It can sit in the corner with Vibrio and Mycobacter spp and play cards for all I care.

ivy


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Old 07/24/2015, 07:26 PM   #1383
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Update. Removed all of my rocks and corals wiped them down a little not much, and added a couple more pounds of live rock. Sucked the dino remains out of the tank and continued with the full take peroxide dosing. On day 4 of blackout and things are looking very promising. Will install sump, UV and new skimmer tomorrow and start lighting the tank 2 hours a day. Will keep updating, I feel like I am beating this.


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Old 07/24/2015, 08:04 PM   #1384
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Quote:
Originally Posted by karimwassef View Post
There is no "cure". Dinos are a natural part of every ecosystem. Some species can explode and cause a crisis, so the required result is to push them back into their natural state - under control.

You can never kill the genie. You can only put him back in the bottle and don't rub the bottle ever again.

I agree with this..

Got the dinos bad in my 40g breeder, pulled rocks, dosed h2o2,lights out, pulled most of the rock out and soaked it in 5g bucket with 1 bottle of h2o2 dumped in, they still kept coming back.. Was dosing large doses of h2o2, in the end I put a half a bottle in, it just ****ed them off (all critters were in another tank)
Finally gave up and went to LFS and bought the rock out of their emerald crab tank, it looked like a chia pet it had so much hair algea on it..
Put that in and started feeding everybody, let the tank get dirty.. Once the hair algea got a good foothold in my C2C Overflow, I added a lawnmower blenny, and started backing off the feedings, and slowly cleaning the tank..
It took several weeks but the Dinos started fading, they are not showing right now..
I had them make a brief appearance when I moved everyone to the 60g frag tank, but they faded quickly...
I recently added the 40g breeder back into this system (sharing the sump) as a QT tank,, (my foxface was getting pushed around by the damsels) within a few days the 40g exploded with Dinos, just that tank, not in the sump nor the 60g frag..
It took a week and few days for the dinos to fade in that one as well..
I am only moving 300gph through the 40g and back to the sump so it took a bit for them to get starved out..
They bloomed in the 40g because it had 40g of fresh saltwater for them to feed in, once the hair algea and other critters from the 60g got distributed into the 40g the Genie went back into the bottle..
I feed my tanks/fish/corals enough to where I have to clean the glass everyday.. It just starts building a film up, then I clean..
My rock came from a tank that was infested with them.. I let this rock sit outside for several months on a piece of wood, everything else in the tank was new, including the tank...AND THEY STILL CAME BACK..
When I finish setting up the 180g I will have to go through this again more than likely..
I just dont feel like buying new rock, what I have is too nice to just toss and I dont think you will kill all of them,,ever...


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Old 07/24/2015, 08:43 PM   #1385
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Update also.

This week I've been: running small amount of GFO, feeding rfa again, did one blackout, wrap tank after 3 hours of lights on to keep ambient light down,
and (gasp) I added 1/2 litre of conditioned tap water to my 4L top off jug of ro/di. I know! I have raised freshwater inverts (ramshorn, apple snails, ornamental shrimp) in only our tap water so it's probably safe, despite the known ammonia, nitrate, phosph, silicates. I figure feeding is making detritus pile up due to my bad rockscape, and lack of cleaners, but I want to add nutrients.

The good:

Cyano is receding from the sandbed. Still looks bad on rocks/glass, but at least red on the glass is a change from dinos on the glass? Possible diatoms on the glass too. Different brown than the dinos. Can't tell the diff with terrible hobby microscope.

Starting to see life! Fed the rock flower nem today and there was an epic battle of the creepy crawlies as a bristleworm, mini brittle star? and some kind of HUGE pod went after the same mysis. Tried to get pics but they're too blurry. Do amphipods get 2cm? None of the euphyllia seemed interested in eating tho' mysis did stick to their tentacles.

My alk is much more stable, and high. Haven't had to dose daily to keep it at 8. Didn't realize dinos affected alk!

The bad:

Dinos are pretty happy in the bends of the tank, along the sides where I can't scrape, and on the back likewise. Bad rockscaping due to oversized rock on my part. They're not making long fronds anymore, and they aren't coming back so much on the areas I *can* scrape.

My ricordea melted. Dang that was the most expensive living thing I've bought for the tank. Frogspawn which is periodically ticked off is ticked off again. Other corals look their usual level of bad. I suppose there's hope as long as it's not rotting, but it's sure showing a lot of white.

There used to be little worm tracks in the sand along the front glass. Those are gone. I don't see the spaghetti worm tentacles either.

New small (1cm maybe) red patches all over 2 of my live rocks, the ones getting the most ambient light. Not coralline I don't think, colour is wrong, but they're hard and don't scrape off. Good/bad? Weird?

Plan:
Small water change on Sunday to get cyano out. No blackout. Scrape all the things! Increase photoperiod slowly to 4 hours. Try to source worms. Wait impatiently for tank to be ok enough for me to start adding life.

ivy (that was a novel)


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Old 07/24/2015, 08:47 PM   #1386
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Originally Posted by dustinkimpel View Post
Update. Removed all of my rocks and corals wiped them down a little not much, and added a couple more pounds of live rock. Sucked the dino remains out of the tank and continued with the full take peroxide dosing. On day 4 of blackout and things are looking very promising. Will install sump, UV and new skimmer tomorrow and start lighting the tank 2 hours a day. Will keep updating, I feel like I am beating this.
See, there are 2 types of people..those who think everything is made of tissue paper, and those who haul everything out of their tank and wipe it down.
On a more serious note, glad the blackout is helping. I'm sure the live rock will also.

ivy


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Old 07/24/2015, 09:13 PM   #1387
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I agree with this..

Got the dinos bad in my 40g breeder, pulled rocks, dosed h2o2,lights out, pulled most of the rock out and soaked it in 5g bucket with 1 bottle of h2o2 dumped in, they still kept coming back.. Was dosing large doses of h2o2, in the end I put a half a bottle in, it just ****ed them off (all critters were in another tank)
Finally gave up and went to LFS and bought the rock out of their emerald crab tank, it looked like a chia pet it had so much hair algea on it..
Put that in and started feeding everybody, let the tank get dirty.. Once the hair algea got a good foothold in my C2C Overflow, I added a lawnmower blenny, and started backing off the feedings, and slowly cleaning the tank..
It took several weeks but the Dinos started fading, they are not showing right now..
I had them make a brief appearance when I moved everyone to the 60g frag tank, but they faded quickly...
I recently added the 40g breeder back into this system (sharing the sump) as a QT tank,, (my foxface was getting pushed around by the damsels) within a few days the 40g exploded with Dinos, just that tank, not in the sump nor the 60g frag..
It took a week and few days for the dinos to fade in that one as well..
I am only moving 300gph through the 40g and back to the sump so it took a bit for them to get starved out..
They bloomed in the 40g because it had 40g of fresh saltwater for them to feed in, once the hair algea and other critters from the 60g got distributed into the 40g the Genie went back into the bottle..
I feed my tanks/fish/corals enough to where I have to clean the glass everyday.. It just starts building a film up, then I clean..
My rock came from a tank that was infested with them.. I let this rock sit outside for several months on a piece of wood, everything else in the tank was new, including the tank...AND THEY STILL CAME BACK..
When I finish setting up the 180g I will have to go through this again more than likely..
I just dont feel like buying new rock, what I have is too nice to just toss and I dont think you will kill all of them,,ever...
Wow, you've been through the wringer! Have to lol at your chia pet rock, I can see the LFS people going 'Nooooo you don't want that rock!' Kind of surprised the H2O2 didn't work tho.

I got my rock from a relative, after he shut down his all-sps tank due to pests. He had bad "diatoms" at the end but..the rock sat out through an entire winter here, and got hosed down periodically. I cleaned it thoroughly before I used it. Should be fine, right? I would now bet money that it wasn't diatoms, and a lot of his unexplained fish deaths were due to dino toxins. He used flatworm exit and probably interceptor and levamisole. But hey, it was free! My LFS doesn't even carry real live rock at all because we're 2,000km from the ocean and shipping is ridiculous.

I will never use dry rock to start a tank again. Paying air freight would have been much less upsetting than killing off a tank of animals.

ivy


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Old 07/24/2015, 10:08 PM   #1388
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Originally Posted by Quiet_Ivy View Post
Wow, you've been through the wringer! Have to lol at your chia pet rock, I can see the LFS people going 'Nooooo you don't want that rock!' Kind of surprised the H2O2 didn't work tho.

I got my rock from a relative, after he shut down his all-sps tank due to pests. He had bad "diatoms" at the end but..the rock sat out through an entire winter here, and got hosed down periodically. I cleaned it thoroughly before I used it. Should be fine, right? I would now bet money that it wasn't diatoms, and a lot of his unexplained fish deaths were due to dino toxins. He used flatworm exit and probably interceptor and levamisole. But hey, it was free! My LFS doesn't even carry real live rock at all because we're 2,000km from the ocean and shipping is ridiculous.

I will never use dry rock to start a tank again. Paying air freight would have been much less upsetting than killing off a tank of animals.

ivy
Everytime I dosed the h2o2 my filtersocks would clog up in about 3 hours. It was killing them just not fast enough..

I am thinking of setting a small tank up , and using water change water and a few rocks from the 60g and seeing what kind I do have, and how bad they will get...


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Old 07/24/2015, 10:10 PM   #1389
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Update
Tank looks marvelous, I put a sample squeezed out of my sock under the microscope and could not find any dinos, just tons of micro organisms swimming around, many different varieties and microscopic pods. I never saw any of this while I had the dinos.
I am totally back to my regular routine pre dinos, been about 6 weeks now.


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Old 07/25/2015, 11:31 AM   #1390
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Update
Tank looks marvelous, I put a sample squeezed out of my sock under the microscope and could not find any dinos, just tons of micro organisms swimming around, many different varieties and microscopic pods. I never saw any of this while I had the dinos.
I am totally back to my regular routine pre dinos, been about 6 weeks now.
Way to go cal_stir.
That result from the microscope is something I have really been waiting for.
I predicted it years ago and here it is with all the benefits.
Keep reporting since we know they like to come back.

I've got used sand and fresh rocks coming next week.
If I get it similar results we may be on to something.

---

The theory is simple enough.
Loss of plankton can leave an open door for dinoflagellates to take over.
Give plankton a helping hand and dinos will fade away.


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Old 07/25/2015, 11:50 AM   #1391
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My skimmer has been switched off for four days now and the dinos don't care.
Seven days usually counts for a full cup of skimmate.

Some months ago I had poured the content of my skimmer back into the tank and it was all back in the skimmer within 2 hours.
Today I turned it on for two hours and there was hardly anything in there even though the water had gotten clear.

In my book this means that the marine snow / debris is formed quite fast and the nutrients get bound in there.
I used a powerhead on my rocks and there was much more debris there than I thought there would be.


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Old 07/25/2015, 01:45 PM   #1392
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Way to go cal_stir.
That result from the microscope is something I have really been waiting for.
I predicted it years ago and here it is with all the benefits.
Keep reporting since we know they like to come back.

I've got used sand and fresh rocks coming next week.
If I get it similar results we may be on to something.

---

The theory is simple enough.
Loss of plankton can leave an open door for dinoflagellates to take over.
Give plankton a helping hand and dinos will fade away.
That's right mate. It's all about plankton and every small critter that would keep those dinos in check.

I'm four months ostreopsis free. I achieved this by encouraging planktonic life (skimmer off for some days, phytoplankton dosing and heavy feeding). Nitrates and phosphates are still undetectable but I have a pretty high nutrient flow.


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Old 07/25/2015, 03:12 PM   #1393
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Hey all. Looking for a confirmation if this is indeed Dino's.


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Old 07/25/2015, 04:15 PM   #1394
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Whiter light would help with the color but yes it looks like dinos.
A microscope is the best way to ID, and you can also ID the species which can help with the treatment.


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Old 07/25/2015, 04:28 PM   #1395
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Just started chemi clean at 1/2 the recommended dose to see if I can take out the cyanobacteria in case it's helping the dinos

Also I got into this mess after adding a larger skimmer and used Nopox


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Old 07/25/2015, 05:03 PM   #1396
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Hey all. Looking for a confirmation if this is indeed Dino's.
That could be space aliens. Do you have pictures under white light? Dinos are: snotty, brown to clear, stringy, don't come off in mats, often disappear at night, tend to kill snails, like tanks with super low nutrients and no other algae. (They don't mind cyano)

hth
ivy


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Old 07/25/2015, 05:09 PM   #1397
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That could be space aliens. Do you have pictures under white light? Dinos are: snotty, brown to clear, stringy, don't come off in mats, often disappear at night, tend to kill snails, like tanks with super low nutrients and no other algae. (They don't mind cyano)



hth

ivy

At the moment no I don't have a photo under white light. They are reddish to Brown in color, stringy, no bubbles seem to be attached and it's definitely not matted. It's been lingering for a while and I started h2o2 dosing about 3 days ago and for whatever reason it got a bit worse over night. This video was shot first thing in the morning when the lights first came on so it must have gotten worse over night which seems to be contrary to what Dino's do.


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Old 07/25/2015, 05:16 PM   #1398
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Everytime I dosed the h2o2 my filtersocks would clog up in about 3 hours. It was killing them just not fast enough..

I am thinking of setting a small tank up , and using water change water and a few rocks from the 60g and seeing what kind I do have, and how bad they will get...
10-20% of dino species can make cysts with calcium or silicate walls. I think this is how mine survived on the rock. Peroxide may just not be a strong enough acid. I went and looked them up in my bio textbook.. sheesh. I remember seeing fossilized dino cysts in archaeology too.

I suppose you could use the small tank as a test chamber for things that kill them?

ivy


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Current Tank Info: 28g aio, 105 watt CF lights, no sump or skimmer. 2 sexy shrimp, tiny frogspawn, tiny toadstool, tiny lps. Started Feb '15
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Old 07/25/2015, 06:27 PM   #1399
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Test chamber was the plan..


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Old 07/25/2015, 07:30 PM   #1400
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At the moment no I don't have a photo under white light. They are reddish to Brown in color, stringy, no bubbles seem to be attached and it's definitely not matted. It's been lingering for a while and I started h2o2 dosing about 3 days ago and for whatever reason it got a bit worse over night. This video was shot first thing in the morning when the lights first came on so it must have gotten worse over night which seems to be contrary to what Dino's do.
H2O2 did nothing for mine, Ostreopsis Ovata, they don't always have bubbles and I think when there environment is changing they change their behavior to adapt so they may have been responding to the h2o2.
I think the only way to control them is through plankton diversity, that's why I got a dozen different varieties from a half dozen different suppliers.


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