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Old 10/23/2015, 02:04 AM   #2076
karimwassef
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I couldn't find a reference to dinos... But I had to skim. It's a great build but 150 pages...


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Old 10/23/2015, 08:28 AM   #2077
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Originally Posted by Quiet_Ivy View Post
@bheron the carbon is more to soak up toxins. I run it since I have toxic Ostreopsis and have had a lot of deaths. Skimmer did nothing for me but some people have had good results. Dinos suck up *insane* amounts of nitrates and phosphates. I have had to actually dose nitrates to maintain a reading.

ivy
Thanks Ivy. I wanted to run Carbon simply to clear up the water after running 'dirty' for so long. so this is helpful! Also had no idea they suck up nitrates and phosphates. explains my low readings. Will post my results after running both carbon and skimmer.


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Old 10/23/2015, 08:39 AM   #2078
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Originally Posted by karimwassef View Post
I'll make a few claims here - and see what you think

"Dinos explode when the majority of rock in the system is artificial or decimated through bleaching/baking, etc..."

Another claim:

"The lack of biofauna creates an environment like the ancient oceans, where dinos were prevalent without predators or sufficient competitors"

Final claim:

"Systems with stablished bio rich rocks are not susceptible unless chemicals are used to kill the biofauna on the rocks (like algae or bacteria killers) or starve them."

...
I think these are great points. Here's my experience and why I agree: For me, my two big battles with Dinos both started after I decimated my live rock - bleach and acid. First time I did it b/c i lost a battle with hair algae and assumed it was b/c of excessive phosphates in my live rock. When I started my tank up next I experienced my first battle with Dinos. They were sooo bad that I decided once again to nuke the tank and start over. Again assumed dinos came from excess waste/phosphates. Bleached and acid'd my rocks again. Completely cleaned out my whole tank, started with a new sandbed and all. Dinos again. And this time I'm pretty sure they came when I added a piece of Live Rock from a trusted source. Seemed like within two weeks I had Dinos everywhere.

So thinking at the start with new tank no Dinos existed in my sytem? system was devoid of live. Then I added some fish and a microfauna pack from IPSF - pods and other stuff. Months later, no dinos. Then I added a piece of LR from LFS which probably had Dinos on it. Lack of established life in my tank = Dinos??


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Old 10/23/2015, 08:41 AM   #2079
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Originally Posted by Budman422 View Post
I always use a little bleach when I wash my filter socks. Hoping it kills everything. Plus I run through an extra rinse cycle to get rid of bleach residue. This may not be the best way but has worked with no apparent effects
Thats exactly what I do. Hope thats ok!? I was told bleach oxidizes anything organic. And I use a good deal of it, such that my wife says the laundry room smells like the YMCA pool!


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Last edited by bheron; 10/23/2015 at 08:51 AM.
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Old 10/23/2015, 01:01 PM   #2080
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Hey guys,

Nobody answered my question and I am kind of still needing help. If anyone can help, that would be great.

1. What size filter sock should I get to siphon dinoflagellates out? 10 or 25 microns? I will be buying felt kind on ebay which should around to $11 for 2.

2. Are these washable after use? Will siphoning out dinos actually help? or will they just grow back and I will be wasting my time.

Does dino x kill pods and microfauna?


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Old 10/23/2015, 02:44 PM   #2081
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Yup. And been feeding very heavy since I started the 4 doses to today. Also started dry skimming. Corals are very happy.
Did pods die using the dino x? Did your microfauna survive?


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Old 10/23/2015, 03:12 PM   #2082
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So thinking at the start with new tank no Dinos existed in my sytem? system was devoid of live. Then I added some fish and a microfauna pack from IPSF - pods and other stuff. Months later, no dinos. Then I added a piece of LR from LFS which probably had Dinos on it. Lack of established life in my tank = Dinos??
Probably, yeah. With a big element of 'bad luck', since many people seem to start with dead rock and have no problems. I wouldn't even say it was 'bad' live rock.

Your story about trying to get rid of algae and winding up with something worse is repeated many times in this thread.

Ivy (I started with 100% dry rock and sand, probably imported dinos on a coral frag. I did dip everything but that wouldn't kill spores. )


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Old 10/23/2015, 03:18 PM   #2083
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Originally Posted by Billybatz9 View Post
Hey guys,

Nobody answered my question and I am kind of still needing help. If anyone can help, that would be great.

1. What size filter sock should I get to siphon dinoflagellates out? 10 or 25 microns? I will be buying felt kind on ebay which should around to $11 for 2.
Dinos range from 5 microns to about 100 microns. Most of the species I've seen pics of in tanks were in the 30-40 range. If they're the same price try the 10.
2. Are these washable after use? Will siphoning out dinos actually help? or will they just grow back and I will be wasting my time.
They're washable but each time you do it, they stretch so the pore size can increase dramatically. Soak in bleach or vinegar in a separate bucket, dry thoroughly. Dinos will grow back but anything you do to annoy them is beneficial.
Does dino x kill pods and microfauna? Nobody seems to know what the active ingredient in dino x is. I'd sure like to know! Anything that eats algae will be indirectly killed by loss of food source.
hth
ivy


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Old 10/23/2015, 03:21 PM   #2084
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Quote:
Originally Posted by karimwassef View Post
I'll make a few claims here - and see what you think

"Dinos explode when the majority of rock in the system is artificial or decimated through bleaching/baking, etc..."

Another claim:

"The lack of biofauna creates an environment like the ancient oceans, where dinos were prevalent without predators or sufficient competitors"

Final claim:

"Systems with stablished bio rich rocks are not susceptible unless chemicals are used to kill the biofauna on the rocks (like algae or bacteria killers) or starve them."

...
I completely agree. Dry 'formerly live' rock has the same disadvantages as man-made.


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Current Tank Info: 28g aio, 105 watt CF lights, no sump or skimmer. 2 sexy shrimp, tiny frogspawn, tiny toadstool, tiny lps. Started Feb '15
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Old 10/23/2015, 06:55 PM   #2085
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Hmmm. Looks like a little live rock is potentially the dangerous seed point. That's exactly what I did...

The artificial or dead rock may need to cure with a large enough collection of rich live rock.


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Old 10/24/2015, 06:37 AM   #2086
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Originally Posted by Quiet_Ivy View Post
Probably, yeah. With a big element of 'bad luck', since many people seem to start with dead rock and have no problems. I wouldn't even say it was 'bad' live rock.

Your story about trying to get rid of algae and winding up with something worse is repeated many times in this thread.

Ivy (I started with 100% dry rock and sand, probably imported dinos on a coral frag. I did dip everything but that wouldn't kill spores. )
Yep. My piece of LR came from a very well know successful and respected LFS owner in our area. He doesn't even sell the LR but I coerced him into giving me a piece to help diversify the live in my tank. At that point my tank had been cycling for maybe 6 months and had experienced various algae blooms. Had lots of pods and worms and other life. But probbably not enough. Within a few days of adding the single piece of LR it started to get a fuzzy film on it. Then all of my other rock got it. And more algae. So I started an all out war of water changes and GFO. Wow was that a bad move. End result was a Dino problem AGAIN!

As I've said before that may have been it for me in this hobby after 13 years. Until I found this thread.

For me I seem to be winning the war. Dino's knocked down to just some brown leftover matter on some rocks. I'm adding more fish while continuing to over feed. No water changes or skimming. More fish are in QT waiting. Pod population seems to be thriving in my fuge. I feed them every night like they're fish. And next week have a big order from Indo Pacific Sea Farms: lots of snails and more worms.


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Old 10/24/2015, 06:40 AM   #2087
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Hmmm. Looks like a little live rock is potentially the dangerous seed point. That's exactly what I did...

The artificial or dead rock may need to cure with a large enough collection of rich live rock.
Yep perfect. Sounds like the right plan. I have a lofty goal to scour this thread and come up with a list of different approaches and things learned. Goal,would be to have a summary of the different strategies and learnings for others who have or surely will be running into this.


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Old 10/24/2015, 10:06 AM   #2088
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Hey all... Haven't posted this thread for a bit. I'm just wondering who has tried dosing hydrogen peroxide for dinos and some comments on the results. Thanks!


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Old 10/24/2015, 11:18 AM   #2089
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I did and it worked, but I dosed in the sump at night. It was good, but not enough. I needed to go to UV to get the most benefit.

Peroxide kills them, but you still need skimming or other actions to remove their dead tissue or else the living will eat the dead and come back.


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Old 10/27/2015, 05:12 PM   #2090
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So I just did a water change a week ago because I haven't seen the Dino's since early August. Now I'm seeing slight dusting on sand that I'm thinking Dino's. This sucks !
So do I never do a water change again? How long have you guys waited after Dino's to resume schedule

Ps
I'm pretty sure they're Dino's because my Zoas look horrible right now and that has always coincided with Dino's for me.

Pps..... H202 has never worked for me. Only did dirty and that worked perfect until water change.


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Old 10/27/2015, 06:14 PM   #2091
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i hear ya...lol...i did the same thing and boom,,,dinos again...so im waiting now to do a water change,,not sure how long ill wait tho....been like 2 months now..and coiunting....


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Old 10/27/2015, 10:08 PM   #2092
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@Dfee and garygonzales: Triple phooey. I wonder if this is seasonal? It's dark very early up here. My tank is completely overrun with cyano atm, and the dinos are exploding in the filter samples I look at. No dinos on a macro scale but my tank is now using up 5ppm nitrate in 3 or 4 days.

@mikefromaz I tried h2o2 at recommended and twice recommended dosage, at night, slowly. (No livestock at the time). Didn't seem to make ANY difference. Try spot treating, that did help.

@bheron I tried to do a list of methods vs results but everybody tried multiple methods and I couldn't figure out how to chart that. Multiple methods *do* work better but it's really impossible to tell what helped. Especially since there's usually a lag between any method working. And that's not even including the people who had funny looking cyano or diatoms and mistook it for dinos.

ivy


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Current Tank Info: 28g aio, 105 watt CF lights, no sump or skimmer. 2 sexy shrimp, tiny frogspawn, tiny toadstool, tiny lps. Started Feb '15
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Old 10/28/2015, 09:42 AM   #2093
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Yep perfect. Sounds like the right plan. I have a lofty goal to scour this thread and come up with a list of different approaches and things learned. Goal,would be to have a summary of the different strategies and learnings for others who have or surely will be running into this.
I've already begun the update on the original post.


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Old 10/28/2015, 09:48 AM   #2094
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I tried the standard peroxide treatment and it did not help.


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Old 10/28/2015, 09:50 AM   #2095
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By the way, the single biggest reason I have so much plankton is the absence of mechanical filters - no socks, no sponges, no bags. These are the real plankton killers. They destroy the mid tier plankton base and turn their bodies into local waste for bacteria and dinos to feed on. If you clean them often, that's good housekeeping and avoids bigger problems but it's just another way to throw plankton away.

Just my view based on what I've experienced.
you know i've been contemplating doing this since i read your post...what are the cons of removing your mechanical filtration? i would assume just a lot of detritus and other poop making your sump dirty? do you vacuum your sump regularly?


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Old 10/28/2015, 09:54 AM   #2096
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Originally Posted by Quiet_Ivy View Post

@bheron I tried to do a list of methods vs results but everybody tried multiple methods and I couldn't figure out how to chart that. Multiple methods *do* work better but it's really impossible to tell what helped. Especially since there's usually a lag between any method working. And that's not even including the people who had funny looking cyano or diatoms and mistook it for dinos.

ivy
good points. ugh!


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Old 10/28/2015, 09:55 AM   #2097
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I tried the standard peroxide treatment and it did not help.
EXCELLENT! I'm still gonna hope to go through and see what notes I can make from all of the great input.


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Old 10/28/2015, 09:55 AM   #2098
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.what are the cons of removing your mechanical filtration?
Don't underestimate the amounts of detritus that will accumulate.
Why should you vacuum the sump if your choice is to remove the filters and let dirt settle in the tank?


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Old 10/28/2015, 09:59 AM   #2099
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you know i've been contemplating doing this since i read your post...what are the cons of removing your mechanical filtration? i would assume just a lot of detritus and other poop making your sump dirty? do you vacuum your sump regularly?
I agree, karimwassef makes a great point. @Porkchopexpress, good question. I'm thinking, in a mature reef ecosystem that detritus and other poop and stuff is actually food for other inhabitants - pods, etc. Another reason I no longer subscribe to the obsessive clean tank approach.


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Old 10/28/2015, 10:32 AM   #2100
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you guys bring up good points...i'm highly considering attempting this soon - next time my filter sock gets clogged i may just not replace it with a clean one and see how that goes...my goal isn't to let the dirt settle or create food for the zooplankton, it's more to allow the zooplankton to return back into the sump from the display tank...every time i clean my filter sock, i'm always saving a handful of amphipods because i can actually see them...who knows how many copepods and munnid isopods i'm killing every time i change filter socks...but i guess that's a good point - if i let the detritus and dirt settle it makes food for them

i'll have to just watch my NO3/PO4...i don't want it to get too high


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