Reef Central Online Community

Home Forum Here you can view your subscribed threads, work with private messages and edit your profile and preferences View New Posts View Today's Posts

Find other members Frequently Asked Questions Search Reefkeeping ...an online magazine for marine aquarists Support our sponsors and mention Reef Central

Go Back   Reef Central Online Community > General Interest Forums > The Reef Chemistry Forum
Register Blogs FAQ Calendar Mark Forums Read

Notices

Reply
Thread Tools
Old 04/29/2014, 09:48 PM   #201
natas
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 390
It took about a week for the cuprisorb to make a difference.

Btw what salt brand do you use?


natas is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04/30/2014, 03:29 AM   #202
DNA
Registered Member
 
DNA's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Iceland
Posts: 1,511
jedimasterben... in 3 days they are back with a vengeance.

At least your experiment contributes important information.
Full tank freshwater exposure does not get rid of dinos.
100% water change does not get rid of dinos.

There could be some long term results so keep looking.
Please don't start over right away for the sake of science.

The completely new saltwater in the tank shows us there is nothing specific with the water chemistry causing dino blooms.
There is bound to be some die off from this causing changes, but in 3 days that would be the effect of a regular new cycle.

Your dinos are from the dark side jedimaster-ben.


DNA is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04/30/2014, 09:26 AM   #203
jedimasterben
LED world domination!
 
jedimasterben's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Okeechobee, FL
Posts: 1,030
Quote:
Originally Posted by natas View Post
It took about a week for the cuprisorb to make a difference.

Btw what salt brand do you use?
Instant Ocean. Salt brand is irrelevant, though. If you have any invasive species, they're going to be invasive no matter what salt mix you use as long as they consider your tank to have 'favorable conditions'.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DNA View Post
jedimasterben... in 3 days they are back with a vengeance.

At least your experiment contributes important information.
Full tank freshwater exposure does not get rid of dinos.
100% water change does not get rid of dinos.

There could be some long term results so keep looking.
Please don't start over right away for the sake of science.

The completely new saltwater in the tank shows us there is nothing specific with the water chemistry causing dino blooms.
There is bound to be some die off from this causing changes, but in 3 days that would be the effect of a regular new cycle.

Your dinos are from the dark side jedimaster-ben.
There really isn't much else to do, unfortunately. A freshwater soak like that was the ace up my sleeve. Everything in that tank is set to be trashed, save for the maxi mini anemones, but I see no issue with keeping it running until what is in it now is all dead. The gorgonians are gone, most of my zoas (the ones on the plugs) are gone, my big leather is melting away. I've basically just got a few ricordea, a couple mushrooms, and the zoas and palys that I basically started the hobby with that are attached to rocks. Sigh.


jedimasterben is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04/30/2014, 10:02 AM   #204
natas
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 390
I think for the most part salt mix is irrelevant as well, but I have heard of people switching brands and dino going away. tough thing is so many people have tried different things and think they have pIn pointed the solution. I for an example think cuprisorb is killing my Dino off, but it could be that the dino is just dying off for other reasons.

Your dino seems to be a very tough strain. I thought mine was hard to kill until I started to read about your battle with it.


natas is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04/30/2014, 03:14 PM   #205
Surly
Registered Member
 
Surly's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Maryland
Posts: 43
Jedi, are your dinos really as red as they appear in your pictures, or is that just a visual effect from the lights or camera? And did you have Pants ID them for you?


Surly is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04/30/2014, 04:11 PM   #206
Squidmotron
Registered Member
 
Squidmotron's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Plano, TX
Posts: 671
I just discovered something that is interesting. Since I have never heard this before in relation to dinos I thought I would pass it along.

Today I added about 15 lbs of pink somoa sand (not live) sand to my refugium. I was curious if there was any particular reason the dinos weren't growing much in my refugium and so thought to recreate the environment of the aquarium above. My refugium never had any substrate. Just caulerpa.

Within 4 hours, dino populations exploded. And I mean exploded. Dinos rose to much larger than normal heights in their usual spots and started covering all the rocks. The substrate began literally bubbling as new dinos formed (even in tank areas where I did not add sand).

(and yes, these are not diatoms -- as you might expect from the addition of sand -- although I wonder if there are both present)


__________________
..................................................

Current Tank Info: 210 Gallon "Mixed Reef" Tank (84 inches wide)
Squidmotron is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04/30/2014, 05:42 PM   #207
jedimasterben
LED world domination!
 
jedimasterben's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Okeechobee, FL
Posts: 1,030
Quote:
Originally Posted by Surly View Post
Jedi, are your dinos really as red as they appear in your pictures, or is that just a visual effect from the lights or camera? And did you have Pants ID them for you?
I've attempted to remove as much red from the pictures as possible, but I'm not too proficient in Lightroom just yet, so they're the best I can do at this point. They are your typical 'brown snot'.

I was actually planning on sending a sample today since I took today off work, but last night I dumped in ~60mL of peroxide into the 10g tank after the lights went off to kill the hair algae that was taking over, and apparently it hampered their growth today, even now I can't see any dinos growing, they'll come back in a day or two though.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Squidmotron View Post
I just discovered something that is interesting. Since I have never heard this before in relation to dinos I thought I would pass it along.

Today I added about 15 lbs of pink somoa sand (not live) sand to my refugium. I was curious if there was any particular reason the dinos weren't growing much in my refugium and so thought to recreate the environment of the aquarium above. My refugium never had any substrate. Just caulerpa.

Within 4 hours, dino populations exploded. And I mean exploded. Dinos rose to much larger than normal heights in their usual spots and started covering all the rocks. The substrate began literally bubbling as new dinos formed (even in tank areas where I did not add sand).

(and yes, these are not diatoms -- as you might expect from the addition of sand -- although I wonder if there are both present)
Possibly it had more surface area and a rougher surface to latch on to.


jedimasterben is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04/30/2014, 05:48 PM   #208
Squidmotron
Registered Member
 
Squidmotron's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Plano, TX
Posts: 671
Quote:
Originally Posted by jedimasterben View Post
Possibly it had more surface area and a rougher surface to latch on to.
They exploded everywhere. Over every surface. Not just the surface I added. And the existing colonies increased in size. It was highly interesting.

I'm going to get out the microscope and see if there are diatoms too.

The reason I'm interested in this connection is that some people are actually trying to dose silicants to create diatoms to compete with dinos.


__________________
..................................................

Current Tank Info: 210 Gallon "Mixed Reef" Tank (84 inches wide)
Squidmotron is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04/30/2014, 07:17 PM   #209
Kieth71
Registered Member
 
Kieth71's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: colorado
Posts: 1,032
Well I am another week in and dinos still appear to be under control. I am thinking of adding a proper sized uv to make sure they don't reappear. I have done another water change which in past would have caused them to come back with a vengeance. The only thing I have not done is increased the lighting. I am running 6 hours with all lights on and another two with just blues.I have not seen a lot of feedback about using uv but I am seriously thinking about it.


Kieth71 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05/03/2014, 05:09 AM   #210
DNA
Registered Member
 
DNA's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Iceland
Posts: 1,511
Some changes are taking place so yesterday I spent two hours watching the interaction between cyanobacteria and dinoflagellates.
We know how Cyanobacteria likes to sit on top of dinos on the sand bed, but are those dead or alive?

Here are some shots from the front glass of my tank.
The white strings are cyano pushing back the brown dinos.
The whole frame covers less than an inch.
The still is a close up from the animation that is taken with an hour interval.







DNA is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05/11/2014, 05:37 AM   #211
DNA
Registered Member
 
DNA's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Iceland
Posts: 1,511
Last year I ran a bio pellet reactor and did not have any Cyanobacteria at all.
The dinos ruled the tank and nothing bothered them.

This round I decided not to use it and it's clear to me that cyano and dinos have a relationship.
Cyano likes the dinos and think it's the dead ones mainly. It clearly has an effect on alive ones as well.

---

The changes in my tank:
Dinos left most of the areas they had conquered.
The water cleared and lost it's yellow tint.
Corals that have been dormant show instant improvement in color, growth and polyp extension.
Cyanobacteria now covers most of the favorite dino spots and it changed color from purple to light brown on the sand bed.

I still have some dinos but seem to have lost most of the population.


DNA is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05/11/2014, 06:54 PM   #212
Chris Abbott
Registered Member
 
Chris Abbott's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: St Ann, MO
Posts: 575
Odd, mine have completely receded from the sandbed and are all but history except for one tiny area. Don't bother asking cause I have no idea at all what happened. I had stooped treating a couple weeks back and they have just slowly retreated.


__________________
90 gallon build in progress...
Chris Abbott is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05/28/2014, 08:44 PM   #213
1panman1
Registered Member
 
1panman1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Laguna Niguel, CA
Posts: 160
Has anyone had results from adding an algae scrubber. The manufacturer of Santa Monica Filtration claims that Dinos will be the first nuisance algae to go with an algae scrubber. Any experience with this or validity? Would hate to pop for $200-$300 if it will not work, however would be happy to spend that if it works.


__________________
Cadlights custom 75 gallon starfire rimless,Leemar custom birch stand, 23 gallon sump. Cadlights 1150 cone skimmer, Cadlights br1 biopellet reactor, Reef Breeders photon 24 LED, Tunze Osmolator 3155 A
1panman1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05/28/2014, 08:49 PM   #214
jedimasterben
LED world domination!
 
jedimasterben's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Okeechobee, FL
Posts: 1,030
In theory it should work. I noticed mine cropped up as soon as I removed my algae scrubber and went to a skimmer, but they were already in the system. Turns out that mine are more than likely local and the result of me collecting some macroalgae from a mangrove 'swamp'. Turns out that is a breeding ground for them. Sigh.


__________________
Dinoflagellates are the kiss of death.

Current Tank Info: Acquasole 60, IceCap 15 Sump, 2x Maxspect Ethereal, Coral Box D500 skimmer, Maxspect Gyre 150, Jecod DCS-5000
jedimasterben is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05/28/2014, 09:04 PM   #215
wildman926
Registered Member
 
wildman926's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: CTX
Posts: 2,966
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1panman1 View Post
Has anyone had results from adding an algae scrubber. The manufacturer of Santa Monica Filtration claims that Dinos will be the first nuisance algae to go with an algae scrubber. Any experience with this or validity? Would hate to pop for $200-$300 if it will not work, however would be happy to spend that if it works.
Yes that is true. But IMHO, their ATS's are for smaller tanks. I have some really nice ones made by a member here on RC. They flat out work, and I have yet to see any return of hair algae, cyano, dino's, etc. I battled hair algae for 8 months. Nuked it with AlgaeFix by API, and installed ATS. My tank is the cleanest it has been in a few years.


__________________
Beware of recommendations by those who don't actually use their recommendation!!

The search function actually works quite well!!

Tanks:Planet Aquarium 150g LPS, Planet Aquarium 90g Softie
wildman926 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05/28/2014, 10:08 PM   #216
1panman1
Registered Member
 
1panman1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Laguna Niguel, CA
Posts: 160
They have some for large tanks. I was considering a surf 2 for a 75 gallon tank. I would put it in the sump. Any opinions on whether it will get rid of my dino issues? I am open to any other manufactures. Just do not want to do DIY. Have also heard of Turbo Aquatics but Santa Monica seems so easy to place in sump floating. I just want the Dinos to go away.


__________________
Cadlights custom 75 gallon starfire rimless,Leemar custom birch stand, 23 gallon sump. Cadlights 1150 cone skimmer, Cadlights br1 biopellet reactor, Reef Breeders photon 24 LED, Tunze Osmolator 3155 A

Last edited by 1panman1; 05/28/2014 at 10:13 PM.
1panman1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05/29/2014, 02:59 AM   #217
DNA
Registered Member
 
DNA's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Iceland
Posts: 1,511
Tracing back a few steps.

I raise nitrates and it makes a considerable dent in the dinos.
Algae moves in and covers much of my rocks.
Dinos move back in and sit comfortably on top of the algae.
Cyano really gets going and covers the dinos.

Now I have less than 5% of the dinos left and would call that acceptable.
The algae on the rocks is fading as well.

I the past dinos out-competed the algae and it hardly grew at all.
My tank, a few weeks ago, with lots of algae did have lots of dinos as well at the same time.


DNA is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05/29/2014, 07:16 AM   #218
baringcs
Registered Member
 
baringcs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Spring, TX
Posts: 965
Quote:
Originally Posted by DNA View Post
Tracing back a few steps.

I raise nitrates and it makes a considerable dent in the dinos.
Algae moves in and covers much of my rocks.
Dinos move back in and sit comfortably on top of the algae.
Cyano really gets going and covers the dinos.

Now I have less than 5% of the dinos left and would call that acceptable.
The algae on the rocks is fading as well.

I the past dinos out-competed the algae and it hardly grew at all.
My tank, a few weeks ago, with lots of algae did have lots of dinos as well at the same time.
Did you use anything in particular to raise your nitrates or just increase feeding and/or less nutrient export?


__________________
Steve

My Tanks
24x24x12 frag tank at the moment
265 (84x24x30) build coming soon
baringcs is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 05/29/2014, 06:53 PM   #219
mandrieu
Registered Member
 
Join Date: May 2014
Location: Montgomery Co, MD, US
Posts: 23
Hey guys, I've been fighting this thing for 5 months now thinking it was dinos, but now I just don't know if it's dinos, diatoms, cyano, all the above. The pics are not that great but maybe with your experience you can tell me?


Attached Images
File Type: jpg P5290001A.jpg (39.3 KB, 104 views)
File Type: jpg P5290002A.jpg (95.5 KB, 97 views)
File Type: jpg P5290004A.jpg (44.8 KB, 85 views)
File Type: jpg P5290006A.jpg (40.4 KB, 75 views)
mandrieu is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05/29/2014, 07:09 PM   #220
natas
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 390
Mandrieu when the light go out does it appear to lessen?

My first guess would be cyano but it is hard to tell with those pictures. Either way it appears you only have a small amount. When I had Dino my whole sandbed looked like it was covered in brown snot


natas is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05/29/2014, 07:49 PM   #221
mandrieu
Registered Member
 
Join Date: May 2014
Location: Montgomery Co, MD, US
Posts: 23
Yeah, the pics are pretty bad. When the light go out, they go out....

I've tried pretty much everything you can imagine, including several 3 days dark instances, with the exception of stopping weekly water changes.

My parameters are fine, 0 Phos, 2-3 NO3, and all the others as you would expect.

5 months ago I upgraded my 55 to this 125 tank, moved everything minus the sand, which I replaced with new. But I had started having this pest in the old tank about 1 month before.

I keep siphoning the stuff but it comes back.

I run GFO, GAC, and add kalk with a bit of vinegar.

I've had cyano a couple of times in the past and this thing doesn't quite look like it. Not a mat, more like a dusty stuff in the sand. If I disturb it, it breaks easily. Not stringy with bubbles either. Not too red, more like rust/golden under the white lights, redish under the blues.

As an engineer, which I am, I'm fairly systematic, but I have to admit I have no idea what to do next. I really want this thing out! LOL - It's a great to test my patience and endurance though...

Thanks for your help


__________________
mandrieu

Common sense is a very uncommon sense...
My Tank: 125 G Mixed Reef. Kessil 360. Reef Octopus BH2000.

Current Tank Info: 125 Gallon Reef, Kessil 360
mandrieu is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05/29/2014, 08:54 PM   #222
natas
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 390
Hard to say. When you say it goes away at night I am thinking Dino. But the dusty appearance screams diatom. How old is the sand? What you may have is a very small patch of dino. Have you tried siphoning out?


natas is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05/29/2014, 09:09 PM   #223
dartier
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Brampton, ON, Canada
Posts: 964
What you are describing sounds like diatoms, and your photos are consistent with diatoms. The normal trigger for diatoms is silicate. In my tank I have also found that iron triggers diatom outbreaks.

Do you have many sponges in the tank? They also need silicate.

Are your RO/DI filters up to date? Exhausted filters could lead to silicate in your make up water.

Dennis


__________________
560G Miracles tank in process
making a DIY DyMiCo style filter (for 560G)

Current Tank Info: 560G Miracles tank in progress, 80Frag Temporary
dartier is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05/30/2014, 02:17 AM   #224
DNA
Registered Member
 
DNA's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Iceland
Posts: 1,511
Mandrieu, this looks like dinos and cyano to me.
The orange arrow points to dinos and the rest would be cyano, most likely on top of more dinos.

Try to shut off all your pumps and blast your all your rocks with a powerhead, looking for a subtle dust blowing off and later forming strings in the water column.

If that is still inconclusive take samples from the brown areas and look at it through a microscope.
Cyano is more purple usually. I don't think you will have problem deciding between diatoms and dinos.

Since they come and go daily and you have had them for 5 months I'd expect dinos.

My dinos do not always look the same, sometimes it's just dust, very small strings and no bubbles or very long stings with lots of bubbles. Individuals produce small gas bubbles that travel up the string and form larger ones that eventually break lose.


DNA is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05/30/2014, 06:16 PM   #225
mandrieu
Registered Member
 
Join Date: May 2014
Location: Montgomery Co, MD, US
Posts: 23
Thanks guys.

Natas: yes, I siphon them a couple of times a week and they come back next day.

Dartier: I test silicates (salifert) and get 0. I have a few small sponges in my rocks. Been looking at them and they don't seem to grow much, but who knows. There could be more where I can't see them. My RO/DI filters seem to be in good shape and I test water regularly. When I get 2 or 3 ppm I change them. Currently 0 ppm. I use Instant Ocean salt.

DNA: I'll try that and see what happens. I'll see if I can get a microscope. Nice! - Love this hobby... one more gadget!

Thanks folks


__________________
mandrieu

Common sense is a very uncommon sense...
My Tank: 125 G Mixed Reef. Kessil 360. Reef Octopus BH2000.

Current Tank Info: 125 Gallon Reef, Kessil 360
mandrieu is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 12:09 PM.


TapaTalk Enabled

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Powered by Searchlight © 2017 Axivo Inc.
Use of this web site is subject to the terms and conditions described in the user agreement.
Reef CentralTM Reef Central, LLC. Copyright 1999-2014