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Old 12/30/2015, 10:28 PM   #2426
Dans85
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I started with live Fiji rock. I had a GHA outbreak and set up an ATS to try and combat it. The ATS worked great at getting rid of the breakout in the DT. Within a month all of the algae on the ATS died off and what I believe happened was a low bio load and light feeding combined with the ATS created a ULN situation that caused the initial dinoflagellate outbreak.


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Old 12/30/2015, 10:36 PM   #2427
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Quote:
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I really think I had a major problem with feeding and that's what brought Dino's. Like half a cube of mysis every 3-4 days. (75 gal)

I feed a whole cube everyday now plus seaweed. Added a fuge with cheato. Added pods and phyto. Now I only see them when I do a water change that will last in a slight dusting for about a week. So they aren't gone yet, got my nitrates up to 40

So how do I keep my tank from getting too dirty because apparently I can never do a water change again? Ive looked into carbon dosing but have mixed feelings about it.
I have had the same problem as far as water changes go. When I think I have a handle on the situation and the Dinos seem to disappear for a while, I've done water changes and it seems to come back worse than before.


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Old 12/30/2015, 11:27 PM   #2428
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It's either poor biodiversity to start (dead rock) or an extinction event (ULNS, chemical algicide)... And dinos take over.


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Old 12/31/2015, 04:17 AM   #2429
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They survey I did with Monty blew my dry rock theory off the table, but it's still a likely factor in the equation.


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Old 12/31/2015, 04:36 AM   #2430
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.
My tank is 98% dinoflagellate free now.
No corals or fish got harmed in the process and most of the Cyanobacteria is gone as well.

Next steps are to see if it improves even further and if it's permanent or not.
If it's not I'll at least get an opportunity to repeat the process and prove my case.
This time I'd like to present something that really works and it will take time to get there.

What a way to start 2016, with white sands and a hope.


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Old 12/31/2015, 05:45 AM   #2431
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Maybe it's time for an experiment

I have an established 50 gal with "dry" rock (sat in bin for maybe a year, not pristine conditions!) that has cyano/dino taking over. Can't grow SPS or corals to despite never seeing nitrates or PO4 at detectable levels. Ceasing water changes seems to have helped greatly and allowing tank to get "dirty"

I also have a 155 that recently started with TBS rock in early November. I DO have nitrates and PO4 already in that system. I'd say it has maybe 40% dry rock (that is the same as the 50 gal above) and 60% TBS rock with no dinos.

What's curious: I took a couple of TBS rocks and put in my 50 gal. No cyano/dinos on those rocks at all. I've also seen cyano resurgence just a bit on the other rocks with NONE on the TBS rock. They have been present since @11/20 with zip, zero ugly stuff on them. None.

I've never been able to detect neither nitrate nor PO4 in my 50 gal. I also have 0 corals that utilize dkh, only a small clam, zoas, and an anemone yet to keep dkh at @8 I have to fully saturate kalk with vinegar in the ATO (using @1 gal/day).

I've been tempted to change water from my 155 to "dose" nitrates in my 50 gal and/or take skimmate and drop into 50 gal. Other option I think would be to initiate carbon dosing regimen (I've started that on the 155 already).

My current theory is that the bacterial balance in the 50 is all hosed up. I'd say it's had a dino/cyano problem for @9 months or so. Frequent water changes only made it worse (I did that for 2-3 months in hopes of being patient and persistent). What's helped the most is letting it run dirty for maybe @4-6 weeks (no water changes). I've added pods and dosing phyto regularly to hopefully change the tank, but after 3 weeks it's gotten better, but certainly not where it should be.

Where I'd like some help from the community here would be a positive ID on the critters present in my 50 gal (uscopes aren't easily had around here). I'd be happy to conduct one of the three options and share results with you all in a controlled procedure.



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Old 12/31/2015, 06:36 AM   #2432
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DNA View Post
.
My tank is 98% dinoflagellate free now.
No corals or fish got harmed in the process and most of the Cyanobacteria is gone as well.

Next steps are to see if it improves even further and if it's permanent or not.
If it's not I'll at least get an opportunity to repeat the process and prove my case.
This time I'd like to present something that really works and it will take time to get there.

What a way to start 2016, with white sands and a hope.
Dirty method? Or do you have a formula of some sort that you are selling soon?


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Old 12/31/2015, 11:30 AM   #2433
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Dinoflagellates.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Billybatz9 View Post
Does anyone know if bacteria fuels dinos? Thinking about dosing a few strains of bacteria to help water quality. What do you guys think?

I had a major increase in microscopic creatures, and an immediate decrease in Dino's, 24 hours after adding SeaChem's Stability. Although that could have been due to increasing feeding dramatically


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Old 12/31/2015, 11:42 AM   #2434
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The problem is that we use generic terms like dinos, bacteria, pods (myself included).

We need a more discerning view but most of us don't have the tools, education or experience.

When I went to my LFS, they advised that I add bacteria in a jug. I support this stuff but I had no idea what works and how much.

We need to know the strain or at least the brand name that works. We'd need five or six infected test tanks and then add different bacteria and measure what happens over a period of time.

Same with the transfusions and other ideas. We need a commercial ally to pay for this.


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Old 12/31/2015, 12:46 PM   #2435
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Quote:
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They survey I did with Monty blew my dry rock theory off the table, but it's still a likely factor in the equation.

Link to the survey?


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Old 12/31/2015, 01:22 PM   #2436
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Quote:
Originally Posted by karimwassef View Post

Dinos are the last stage infection IMO. Just about anything else waterborne is more tolerable if you plan on keeping SPS.

I guess that just as with blood transfusions, you'd need to make sure your supply is healthy. But when I was ready to tear down the tank, this would have been acceptable risk. Like life-saving surgery... 10% chance of survival is better than 0%.
I think there's potential for some cooperation here.

In the algae scrubber basics thread there are people pulling hunks of GHA harvest and sad about throwing away so much life and looking for some use.

In the dinoflagellates thread there are people looking for ways to add algae/bacteria/pods and general biodiversity to outcompete dinos.

Messed up quoting with link but oh well.
"I'm torn. The export is so full of life - pods, worms, starfish, serpent stars, snails.. Even the green water I get from squeezing it is full of life jumping and flicking.
My Chaeto export goes to the fish store or friends, but no one will take GHA export. I couldn't toss it, so I made one of my quarantines into a GHA holding tank while I think about it.
Any ideas on saving life in the GHA?"



Last edited by taricha; 12/31/2015 at 01:44 PM.
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Old 12/31/2015, 01:44 PM   #2437
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Just realized both posts were by karimwassef, so the connection was already made.


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Old 12/31/2015, 11:57 PM   #2438
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LOL!!! YES!

I have noone locally who's struggling with dinos or I'd give them my ATS export!

logistics are the obstacle now.


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Old 01/01/2016, 11:42 AM   #2439
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So would my proposal for an experiment above be useful at all or is it a foregone conclusion that I should use my 155 water/skimmate in my 50?



Last edited by jonwright; 01/01/2016 at 11:56 AM.
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Old 01/01/2016, 12:50 PM   #2440
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Has anyone had any luck with using an oversized UV on their tank along with siphoning out the dino's?


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Old 01/01/2016, 03:31 PM   #2441
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Anyone care to ID this little creature? His stomach appears to be filled with dino seeds



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Old 01/01/2016, 05:05 PM   #2442
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Common white flatworm?

http://www.ronshimek.com/flatworms.html


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Old 01/01/2016, 05:06 PM   #2443
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I used an oversize UV and extra skimming - "the clean method"

That's what worked for me. BUT I also infused thousands of pods into the system.


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Old 01/01/2016, 05:37 PM   #2444
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Anyone care to ID this little creature? His stomach appears to be filled with dino seeds
Is this a consumer of dinos


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Old 01/01/2016, 05:48 PM   #2445
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How big is the organism? It looks like a flatworm of some type, but I don't have a lot of confidence in my id skills.


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Old 01/01/2016, 06:16 PM   #2446
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He looks like he is filled with dinos. He is very very small and very fast. Barely visible to the naked eye. I'd say he is the size of a tiny dust particle.


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Old 01/01/2016, 07:53 PM   #2447
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Well, I'm not sure what it might be. I hope it's eating dinoflagellates for you.


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Old 01/01/2016, 10:37 PM   #2448
taricha
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Quote:
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Anyone care to ID this little creature? His stomach appears to be filled with dino seeds
This article identifies similar blobs inside a similar organism as chloroplasts inside a red flatworm
http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2008-12/feature/index.php


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Old 01/02/2016, 01:08 AM   #2449
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[QUOTE=seamonster124;24223207]Anyone care to ID this little creature? His stomach appears to be filled with dino seeds

I've really been enjoying your microscope pics. I had a super long guess written up for your last batch but RC crashed when I tried to hit submit.

I think you have an Acoel flatworm there, maybe Amphiscolops, some of them actually have symbiotic dinoflagellates like corals do. Here's a page with similar pics: http://www.savalli.us/BIO385/Diversi...alAnimals.html (bottom of the page, listed as Acoelomorpha)


hth
ivy


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Current Tank Info: 28g aio, 105 watt CF lights, no sump or skimmer. 2 sexy shrimp, tiny frogspawn, tiny toadstool, tiny lps. Started Feb '15
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Old 01/02/2016, 01:18 AM   #2450
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It seems to have the shape of a flatworm, but I notice the dots he's filled with are intact and I'd expect to see them in digestive parts if they were for consumption.


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