Reef Central Online Community
Neptune Systems

Home Forum Here you can view your subscribed threads, work with private messages and edit your profile and preferences View New Posts View Today's Posts

Find other members Frequently Asked Questions Search Reefkeeping ...an online magazine for marine aquarists Support our sponsors and mention Reef Central

Go Back   Reef Central Online Community > General Interest Forums > The Reef Chemistry Forum
Register Blogs FAQ Calendar Mark Forums Read

Notices

Reply
Thread Tools
Old 01/02/2016, 01:22 AM   #2451
Quiet_Ivy
Registered Member
 
Quiet_Ivy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Canada
Posts: 390
Quote:
Originally Posted by karimwassef View Post
There are plenty of things we haven't tried yet. For example, how about a water transfusion?

Or a sand transfusion.

I still like the lightem and trashem dino trap idea.
I guess I should post more, I tend not to put up the stuff that didn't work..

I've tried all those with no success against O. ovata. Well, not the UV, but I did run dark except for my 'sump' lit 24/7 with trap material. After 5 days or so the floss wasn't catching much. Dinos returned within 2 days, and now do not seem to respond to lights out at all.

Also was given about 5kg extremely live rock from a running system with no issues. It's been slowly dying back over the last 2 months. No results from 'dosing' large amounts of live skimmate from several large tanks either.

Repeated the above with a small (maybe 500g?) amount of live sand from a different, huge, established system. It died off also.

hth
ivy


__________________
28g cube, CF 105watts! Tunze 9001. Tiny frags: Euphyllia, blasto, ricordea and a rock flower anemone. Lost fish and inverts due to ongoing outbreak of dinoflagellates.

Current Tank Info: 28g aio, 105 watt CF lights, no sump or skimmer. 2 sexy shrimp, tiny frogspawn, tiny toadstool, tiny lps. Started Feb '15
Quiet_Ivy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01/02/2016, 08:50 AM   #2452
mannyhernz
Registered Member
 
mannyhernz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: los angeles
Posts: 553
Quote:
Originally Posted by karimwassef View Post
I used an oversize UV and extra skimming - "the clean method"

That's what worked for me. BUT I also infused thousands of pods into the system.
What were the pods you used? Bought some tigger pods but they seem to not populate


mannyhernz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01/02/2016, 09:49 AM   #2453
karimwassef
Registered Member
 
karimwassef's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Dallas, TX
Posts: 10,577
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quiet_Ivy View Post
I did run dark except for my 'sump' lit 24/7 with trap material. After 5 days or so the floss wasn't catching much. Dinos returned within 2 days, and now do not seem to respond to lights out at all.
So this is curious. Is your sump lit to grow life? Why do you think they don't respond to lights out?

It's great that you're trying this stuff out!!! we need more empirical data.

For transfusions, I think the ratio (% new) is important. It's like a war and the good guys lost because they didn't have enough soldiers. It may also need to be repeated several times. Depending on the size of the donor, the water transfusion can be done weekly and at very high % to upset the existing dino-favored balance. Maybe do it at night when they're mostly free floating?

I do 100-150gal water changes. That could represent a 90% water change for a small tank. I'm not saying the other animals won't struggle with this massive if a change but we haven't tried. Maybe it can be done gradually over a 24 hr period, so 50%, then 50% again = 75% true new water. Once more 50% for 87.5%...

Here's what I'm basing this on. Put a dino covered rock in a healthy tank and they melt away. Either a lack of critical mass or a lack of biodiversity are likely their killers.

Based on your results, I'd say getting dinos due to a lack of biodiversity doesn't mean that adding their competition is enough. Basically, they took over due to lack of competition, but once entrenched, they are now defending and the good guys need an edge to break in. This mirrors other comments where a rock covered in green algae died in a dino tank.. Or chaeto melting away. Once they're in, the dinos make conditions favorable to them. Like an alien species exaforming a planet. That's why I think my UV+lights out+heavy skimming worked with the addition of new life in the forms of thousands of pods. It was all out war.


__________________
Failure isn't an option It's a requirement. 660g 380inwall+280smp/surge S/L/Soft/Maxima/RBTA/Clown/Chromis/Anthias/Tang/Mandarin/Jawfish/Goby/Wrasse/D'back. DIY 12' Skimmer ActuatedSurge ConcreteScape
karimwassef is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01/02/2016, 09:52 AM   #2454
karimwassef
Registered Member
 
karimwassef's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Dallas, TX
Posts: 10,577
Quote:
Originally Posted by mannyhernz View Post
What were the pods you used? Bought some tigger pods but they seem to not populate
I got thousands of copepods and amphipods and then hundreds of glass shrimp and peppermints. I put the shrimp in my chaeto/DSB refugium. They were pumping out new babies constantly.


__________________
Failure isn't an option It's a requirement. 660g 380inwall+280smp/surge S/L/Soft/Maxima/RBTA/Clown/Chromis/Anthias/Tang/Mandarin/Jawfish/Goby/Wrasse/D'back. DIY 12' Skimmer ActuatedSurge ConcreteScape
karimwassef is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01/02/2016, 09:53 AM   #2455
mannyhernz
Registered Member
 
mannyhernz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: los angeles
Posts: 553
Quote:
Originally Posted by karimwassef View Post
I got thousands of copepods and amphipods and then hundreds of glass shrimp and peppermints. I put the shrimp in my chaeto/DSB refugium. They were pumping out new babies constantly.
Yes but what kind of copepods were used to seed???


mannyhernz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01/02/2016, 10:13 AM   #2456
EvMiBo
VictoriaConcordiaCrescit
 
EvMiBo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Ft. Myers, FL
Posts: 2,022
Probably tisbe species. They're benthic so will stay on rocks and sand.


__________________
Evan | DSA 135g Peninsula
EvMiBo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01/02/2016, 10:14 AM   #2457
karimwassef
Registered Member
 
karimwassef's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Dallas, TX
Posts: 10,577
http://www.reefs2go.com/product/INV_...et-1-FREE.html

This company is ok for live food and maybe low end shrimp, but their shipping practices are very poor. They do respond and correct whatever fails, but it's time lost and wasted effort.

I also got their peppermints
http://www.reefs2go.com/product/INV_...et-1-FREE.html

They've been out of glass shrimp for months
http://www.reefs2go.com/product/INV_...et-1-FREE.html


__________________
Failure isn't an option It's a requirement. 660g 380inwall+280smp/surge S/L/Soft/Maxima/RBTA/Clown/Chromis/Anthias/Tang/Mandarin/Jawfish/Goby/Wrasse/D'back. DIY 12' Skimmer ActuatedSurge ConcreteScape
karimwassef is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01/02/2016, 12:26 PM   #2458
Billybatz9
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Posts: 557
Quote:
Originally Posted by mannyhernz View Post
What were the pods you used? Bought some tigger pods but they seem to not populate
Tigger pods like cold water. Get the tisbe


Billybatz9 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01/02/2016, 12:30 PM   #2459
mannyhernz
Registered Member
 
mannyhernz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: los angeles
Posts: 553
Quote:
Originally Posted by Billybatz9 View Post
Tigger pods like cold water. Get the tisbe
I they sell those at lfs?


mannyhernz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01/02/2016, 12:41 PM   #2460
Billybatz9
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Posts: 557
Ya, but buy them from eBay or from a reefer on here, you get 4x the amount for half the price.


Billybatz9 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01/02/2016, 12:42 PM   #2461
Billybatz9
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Posts: 557
Question...
For everyone who has dinos, do you run LEDs or t5s?


Billybatz9 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01/02/2016, 01:04 PM   #2462
seamonster124
Registered Member
 
seamonster124's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: United States
Posts: 898
I run LED's

Funny thing guys; as of this morning I am unable to find a single dino seed. I too samples from cheato, filter socks, scrapings from the wall, etc. I did have some funny spider web looking thing stuck to a birds nest colony, but no dino's in that either.


__________________
Just say NO to Walls of text:
seamonster124 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01/02/2016, 01:14 PM   #2463
Billybatz9
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Posts: 557
New predator maybe? Was just browsing YouTube and found this vid.

Soratid Foraminifer

https://youtu.be/9Lm9hUj2h_0


Billybatz9 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01/02/2016, 01:24 PM   #2464
Billybatz9
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Posts: 557
Even if they did eat them. Idk where to get them. They are either eating the dinos or being the host for them. What's everyone's opinion?


Billybatz9 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01/02/2016, 03:19 PM   #2465
seamonster124
Registered Member
 
seamonster124's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: United States
Posts: 898
I've seen some creatures who are eating dinos, and ones that appear to be in a symbiotic relationship with them. I believe they are all hitchhikers but our efforts to keep super clean water hurts their populations.


__________________
Just say NO to Walls of text:
seamonster124 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01/02/2016, 03:22 PM   #2466
Billybatz9
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Posts: 557
Quote:
Originally Posted by seamonster124 View Post
I've seen some creatures who are eating dinos, and ones that appear to be in a symbiotic relationship with them. I believe they are all hitchhikers but our efforts to keep super clean water hurts their populations.
Sachem stability is what worked for you?


Billybatz9 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01/02/2016, 05:13 PM   #2467
seamonster124
Registered Member
 
seamonster124's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: United States
Posts: 898
Quote:
Originally Posted by Billybatz9 View Post
Sachem stability is what worked for you?
I have no way of being certain that stability was the magic bullet....but they began dying immediately after I dosed Stability.....I also started feeding heavily and kept the lights off for 36 hours.

These little guys have been multiplying the reef, and they happen to be in seachem as well.

Found in filter sock


Seachem Stability at 400x. Camera does not show it so well, but they appear very similar to the little guys from the filter sock.



__________________
Just say NO to Walls of text:

Last edited by seamonster124; 01/02/2016 at 05:22 PM.
seamonster124 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01/02/2016, 05:52 PM   #2468
bertoni
RC Mod
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Mountain View, CA, USA
Posts: 85,520
I think that the flatworm likely had symbionts or some organs showing in the pictures. I agree that we should see dinoflagellates being broken down if they were being consumed. That said, the flatworm could still outcompete the dinoflagellates for food.

The foraminifer video was great! Thanks for the pointer!


__________________
Jonathan Bertoni
bertoni is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 01/02/2016, 06:11 PM   #2469
Quiet_Ivy
Registered Member
 
Quiet_Ivy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Canada
Posts: 390
Quote:
Originally Posted by Billybatz9 View Post
Question...
For everyone who has dinos, do you run LEDs or t5s?
Compact fluorescents! (Lighting is highly unlikely to be a factor unless your spectrum is so severely off as to not support corals).

hth
ivy


__________________
28g cube, CF 105watts! Tunze 9001. Tiny frags: Euphyllia, blasto, ricordea and a rock flower anemone. Lost fish and inverts due to ongoing outbreak of dinoflagellates.

Current Tank Info: 28g aio, 105 watt CF lights, no sump or skimmer. 2 sexy shrimp, tiny frogspawn, tiny toadstool, tiny lps. Started Feb '15
Quiet_Ivy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01/02/2016, 06:28 PM   #2470
Quiet_Ivy
Registered Member
 
Quiet_Ivy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Canada
Posts: 390
First off, new people in the thread-my experience isn't typical. I seem to have an especially bad infestation.

I have an all in one, so I don't have a true sump, just a couple of chambers behind the tank. I don't usually light it; I rigged a lamp for the tests. I would try UV but I can't for the life of me figure a way to rig a big enough unit in my aio. There's really no room back there.

Re lights out: Dinos can switch from photosynthesis to predatory behaviour. I either pushed them towards mixotrophy or killed off the non photosynthetic strains, due to extreme selection pressure of multiple lights out periods. I had 2 genera of dinos, the 2nd, some kind of Prorocentrum? hasn't shown up lately.

I agree about severe cases of dinos making the environment so hostile extreme measures are necessary. I did do one 90% water change with 'good' water. It caused a massive dino bloom. I added skimmate 3 times a week for a month.

The new rock was close to 50% of the total rock in the tank. Chaeto from various sources invariably dies off too, but that may be due to not being able to maintain phosphate. I was trying to inoculate microcritters.

I'm currently keeping nitrate at 15 (due to missing a decimal point, never try to calculate anything at 2am), phosphate still undetectable. Green algae is NOT coming back, pods are still absent despite adding multiple batches/species and I'm losing/lost all my Euphyllia. My montis are bleaching out and I didn't see my rock anemone today. I think I may be at a point where I'm going to have to nuke everything with Dino X and start over. I'd really rather not, but my corals are starting to be affected.

blarg!
ivy


__________________
28g cube, CF 105watts! Tunze 9001. Tiny frags: Euphyllia, blasto, ricordea and a rock flower anemone. Lost fish and inverts due to ongoing outbreak of dinoflagellates.

Current Tank Info: 28g aio, 105 watt CF lights, no sump or skimmer. 2 sexy shrimp, tiny frogspawn, tiny toadstool, tiny lps. Started Feb '15

Last edited by Quiet_Ivy; 01/02/2016 at 06:32 PM. Reason: forgot to talk about UV
Quiet_Ivy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01/02/2016, 06:34 PM   #2471
FullBoreReefer
Registered Member
 
FullBoreReefer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Wooster, OH
Posts: 1,526
Guys, I'm starting to think the algae issue in my tank is Dino. Although I can't be for sure as I've never diagnosed it myself. Could someone please help me?

I would say as of now 35-40% of my tank is starting to be over run. I made a dent a few months back but I just can't win.

Maybe just a proper algae ID and then I can find the proper remedy.

Thanks







__________________
36"x24"x25" in-wall mixed reef. 40b sump. 5gal ATS. 30gal frag. 3x AI Hydra's. Lifereef svs3-30". 4x Mp40wes. Apex2016. Current reef:7yrs. Total hobby:10yrs.
FullBoreReefer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01/02/2016, 06:40 PM   #2472
karimwassef
Registered Member
 
karimwassef's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Dallas, TX
Posts: 10,577
Can you turn off the blue and just take a normal light photo? That doesn't look like dinos


__________________
Failure isn't an option It's a requirement. 660g 380inwall+280smp/surge S/L/Soft/Maxima/RBTA/Clown/Chromis/Anthias/Tang/Mandarin/Jawfish/Goby/Wrasse/D'back. DIY 12' Skimmer ActuatedSurge ConcreteScape
karimwassef is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01/02/2016, 06:41 PM   #2473
FullBoreReefer
Registered Member
 
FullBoreReefer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Wooster, OH
Posts: 1,526
Quote:
Originally Posted by karimwassef View Post
Can you turn off the blue and just take a normal light photo? That doesn't look like dinos
Yes, give me a few more minutes to upload


__________________
36"x24"x25" in-wall mixed reef. 40b sump. 5gal ATS. 30gal frag. 3x AI Hydra's. Lifereef svs3-30". 4x Mp40wes. Apex2016. Current reef:7yrs. Total hobby:10yrs.
FullBoreReefer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01/02/2016, 06:42 PM   #2474
karimwassef
Registered Member
 
karimwassef's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Dallas, TX
Posts: 10,577
I'm not advocating a 'new saltwater' water change.

I'm considering a 'good tank export' water change. You don't want clean water, you want someone else's dirty water.


__________________
Failure isn't an option It's a requirement. 660g 380inwall+280smp/surge S/L/Soft/Maxima/RBTA/Clown/Chromis/Anthias/Tang/Mandarin/Jawfish/Goby/Wrasse/D'back. DIY 12' Skimmer ActuatedSurge ConcreteScape
karimwassef is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01/02/2016, 06:45 PM   #2475
Quiet_Ivy
Registered Member
 
Quiet_Ivy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Canada
Posts: 390
Quote:
Originally Posted by karimwassef View Post
I'm not advocating a 'new saltwater' water change.

I'm considering a 'good tank export' water change. You don't want clean water, you want someone else's dirty water.
Right, I did the 90 change with water from a 300 gallon SPS dominant tank that had been up for years. Skimmate from several running tanks also.

ivy


__________________
28g cube, CF 105watts! Tunze 9001. Tiny frags: Euphyllia, blasto, ricordea and a rock flower anemone. Lost fish and inverts due to ongoing outbreak of dinoflagellates.

Current Tank Info: 28g aio, 105 watt CF lights, no sump or skimmer. 2 sexy shrimp, tiny frogspawn, tiny toadstool, tiny lps. Started Feb '15
Quiet_Ivy is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 01:08 AM.


TapaTalk Enabled

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Powered by Searchlight © 2017 Axivo Inc.
Use of this web site is subject to the terms and conditions described in the user agreement.
Reef CentralTM Reef Central, LLC. Copyright 1999-2014