Help me "evil cluster" my tank!!!! Led lighting for those that don't know.

[zachts]

There is also a Vero 10, 13, 18, and 29 with 5000k and 90 CRI which looks very good on paper, also a Vero 18 and 29 with 5600k and still 90 CRI.

The 90 CRI means it has more red and green and generally a broader spectrum with less yellow for the cooler colors. I would imagine the 4000k just has less green and more red.

Mine are in the mail, so I'm waiting for testing later this week to see how they look over a tank.

[reefermad619]

Nice! Where'd you order them from? Also, I can't seem to locate any optics for the vero10. I see ledil makes them, but can't find any place that sells them.

[zachts]

Originally Posted by reefermad619

Nice! Where'd you order them from? Also, I can't seem to locate any optics for the vero10. I see ledil makes them, but can't find any place that sells them.

Just search on octoparts.com. Digikey has some of the Vero's in stock right now.

[reefermad619]

That's was the only place found them. But couldn't locate optics for them. Planning on ordering as soon as I can locate optics.

[zachts]

Originally Posted by reefermad619

That's was the only place found them. But couldn't locate optics for them. Planning on ordering as soon as I can locate optics.

They are bright enough it may simply be sufficient to not have optics on the Vero's and just on your Royal Blue, Blue, and Violet LEDs. Otherwise I think the BXRA optics might work, you'd have to check the dimensions of the two chips emiting surface but I think they are comparable. You would have to glue them down for sure though but that's not a big deal.

[jedimasterben]

For a 24" height, I don't think that any optics would be required when using LEDs with this much power. (maybe, your beams will all be overlapping unlike the readings to follow, so yours would be higher despite having them up higher)

The following are PAR readings from five LEDs - one Bridgelux BXRA-40E1350-B-00 and four Luxeon M royal blue. The Bridgelux chip puts out about 3000 lumens at an amp (which it was ran at) and the four M put out around 25,000 milliwatts. The LEDs were exactly 24" above the bottom of this tank, which is 24x24x12.

No reflectors, BXRA only


No reflectors, M only


50° Ledil Brooke W, BXRA only


63° Ledil Minnie WWW, M only



Eh, on second thought you might wanna go ahead and get reflectors, in which case you'll want to use the Bridgelux BXRA 950 B instead of the Vero 10, as there really aren't any reflectors available for the Vero 10 yet.

[zachts]

Par seems very even without reflectors in that test Jedi, what did you get with both the M's and BXRA running? combined PAR?

On thing to point out which is evident from Jedi's test is the hot spot that can be created from not having enough clusters in a tank. More clusters with overlapping light spread will even things out, but it is something to be on the look out for.

Most people are shooting for 100-200 Par on the sand bed if you want a full on SPS tank, so even without the reflectors it looks like that's a winner with everything on!

[reefermad619]

It's those #s from above that made me want optics in the first place. But the vero's have a model that boast 90 cri @ 4K. Which made me want to go vero. Decisions... Decisions...

[zachts]

Can always add the optic later when they are more available..........

Anything made for these should also fit since the Vero is slightly smaller in diameter:
http://www.bridgelux.com/wp-content/...2013.10.11.pdf

pay attention to the light spread charts and avoid an optic that create a very narrow pointy "hot spot" in the center. Look for one with more even spread.

[jedimasterben]

Originally Posted by zachts

Par seems very even without reflectors in that test Jedi, what did you get with both the M's and BXRA running? combined PAR?

On thing to point out which is evident from Jedi's test is the hot spot that can be created from not having enough clusters in a tank. More clusters with overlapping light spread will even things out, but it is something to be on the look out for.

Most people are shooting for 100-200 Par on the sand bed if you want a full on SPS tank, so even without the reflectors it looks like that's a winner with everything on!

Yep, just combine the two readings and that will be the number combined. PAR is much more accurate when reading each color individually

With LEDs, you really want to be shooting for closer to the lower end of that range, so ~100 PAR. LEDs being more focused can lead to major local hotspots that you don't always see with a PAR meter (like take a reading here, take a reading here, but in the middle of those two PAR is wicked, etc), in addition to LEDs keeping their output fully within the photosynthetic action spectrum, where halides and T5 don't always, and some halides can have quite a bit of output outside of it.

Originally Posted by reefermad619

It's those #s from above that made me want optics in the first place. But the vero's have a model that boast 90 cri @ 4K. Which made me want to go vero. Decisions... Decisions...

I haven't had the chance to test them versus the 4K 80CRI versions yet, but they should be awesome. Heck, they now even have 5K versions with 90 CRI. I would love to see what those look like under a spectrometer

Originally Posted by zachts

Can always add the optic later when they are more available..........

Anything made for these should also fit since the Vero is slightly smaller in diameter:
http://www.bridgelux.com/wp-content/...2013.10.11.pdf

pay attention to the light spread charts and avoid an optic that create a very narrow pointy "hot spot" in the center. Look for one with more even spread.

I never even thought about using the Bridget reflectors for the Vero 10 - should work out near perfectly!

[zachts]

Originally Posted by jedimasterben

I haven't had the chance to test them versus the 4K 80CRI versions yet, but they should be awesome. Heck, they now even have 5K versions with 90 CRI. I would love to see what those look like under a spectrometer

It looks a lot like the Decor (97CRI) spectrum only the red spike is more even with greens and there is a much larger amount of royal blue as you might expect. Wish I could share but the data sheet I got from them has a nice "do not share" disclaimer on it......I guess they don't want the particulars to be public knowledge yet?

They also make a 5600k with 90 CRI in the larger Vero lines..........now that one sounds promising.

[reefermad619]

Aight guys, so I'm happy to go with the vero 10s. I'm really diving the spectrum rang and 90 cri. Seems to have decent spread that will cover my green and reds. I think the 10s will be all I need. I was thinking of going 13s just to have the extra "oompf" but I plan on running the 10s at 350ma. I want to run 2 in parallel so I can cut back on drivers since they things have a high voltage requirement. Figure if I run 2 of a ldd 700, if one blows, the other should be able to handle all the power of the driver. But I don't really want to less with us sing to add fuses inline, so I may just say F it, and each on its own driver.

Thanks zachts for the optic find! Here's what I was able to find http://www.newark.com/ledil/c10920-b...923?CMP=AFC-OP

Hopefully all goes well. Also, any recommendation on what CFM my fans should provide? I plan on running 4, 18" heatsinks from makers with 1 fan over each cluster and 2 clusters/heatsink. Thanks again guys for pointing me in the right direction.

[reefermad619]

So what does everone think of these compared to luxeon M?
http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/...Ykla1CDAJbatRu

[jedimasterben]

The Luxeon M uses four of the Luxeon T dies in one lens and is about $11-12 mounted, the Luxeon K8 uses eight individual Luxeon T dies on one PCB for around $12, and the Luxeon K16 uses sixteen individual Luxeon T dies on one PCB for around $22.

If you're running the Bridgelux chips at high currents (over 350mA each), then you'll need more royal blue to keep 12-14k color temp overall. You need an approximate ratio of 1:14, so for every one lumen of white, you need 14mW of royal blue. At 700mA, the Bridgelux Vero puts out over 1600 hot lumens, so you'd need at least 22,400mW of royal blue. The K8 at 1A emits ~11,675mW, the K16 does ~23,375mW.


Now, that much power in one area is enormous - you'd need to hang them high if using lenses to keep them from destroying your tank lol. My last array using four BXRA and 12 Luxeon M at full current, using wide reflectors, gave me over 500 PAR on my sandbed, which was ~36" away.

[reefermad619]

I'm thinking about pairing one vero10 with 1, k16. I like less wiring I'd need to do using one k16 Vs. using 2 luxeon M. Where did u find their outputs at 1A? I didn't see that in the data sheet.

[jedimasterben]

The current derating curve, can't remember which page it's on, but it's there. I think at 1A it is 2.5x 350mA.

[reefermad619]

Found it! So I've decided to use the 8 up. I figure 1 on each side of a vero will give me better color blending Vs. One 16 up next to a vero. I don't really plan on running the vero past 350ma. But will have them on 700ma drivers. Figure I'd like to have the option run everything full bore and still maintain a nice color. But running things at full bore will also mean running all other colors at 4x the original led count. So I'll have take that into consideration. I'm not trying to build a par monster, but more of a par trouble maker. Shooting for a 100 par on the sandbed.

[jedimasterben]

With reflectors, this array should surpass that with ease lol

[reefermad619]

Ok guys, looking at this, http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/...kknUGH0g8RxLq9

It says the 8 up pulls 4.67 watts @ 350ma. But at 21V shouldn't the wattage pull be 7.35? Just trying to make sure my numbers are correct. Really thinking about using an IP rated PS and I want to make sure I size it correctly.

[jedimasterben]

They probably got some numbers fudged up a little bit. There are a lot of LEDs in the K line, so inputting all of them for each different SKU is a big job lol.

[Yodeling]

Looking to go with a similar build. Progress?

[reefermad619]

None whatsoever! Got busy building an aquariums stand and canopy for a local reefer and now that the weather is nice, time to start building a deck and pergola for the back yard. I hope to get to this soon though. Got some vacation time coming up.

So I've pretty much nailed down the led choices. Going with 1 Vero 10 for the white, luxeon K 8 up for the royal blue, luxeon rebel for blue, luxeon rebel for cayan, and a multi chip from a new vendor on here for the violet. I'll probably be adding lime to the mix too.

[reefermad619]

Was also thinking of maybe using these for whites... http://www.philipslumileds.com/uploads/419/DS115-pdf.

Looks like they've got a 4K NW capable of 97 CRI.

[zachts]

Originally Posted by reefermad619

None whatsoever! Got busy building an aquariums stand and canopy for a local reefer and now that the weather is nice, time to start building a deck and pergola for the back yard. I hope to get to this soon though. Got some vacation time coming up.

So I've pretty much nailed down the led choices. Going with 1 Vero 10 for the white, luxeon K 8 up for the royal blue, luxeon rebel for blue, luxeon rebel for cayan, and a multi chip from a new vendor on here for the violet. I'll probably be adding lime to the mix too.

Who is the new vendor?

[reefermad619]

http://reefll.com/index.php?route=pr...&product_id=58

Really like that I only need to solder one star.