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Old 11/26/2014, 06:42 AM   #51
reefmutt
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Markalot, in case you are not aware, the acidity of vinegar allows for more calcium hydroxide to dissolve into the water when it is added the the mix, I assume this is the cause or your alk spike..
There's a saying I have heard and used a lot in this hobby.. The bad things happen overnight and the goods things take forever in reef keeping..
Like I said, go back to what your were doing before the issues and then wait... The patience will go a long way to fixing things.


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Current Tank Info: 53x32.5x26 190g dt 60g of sumps 3 tank-100 gal frag system 4x AI prime 6xt5 3x150w mh. 4x maxspect gyre. Skimz Dual internal sicce pump skimmer Deltec PF601s ca rx+Kalk stirrer
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Old 11/26/2014, 06:51 AM   #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by reefmutt View Post
Markalot, in case you are not aware, the acidity of vinegar allows for more calcium hydroxide to dissolve into the water when it is added the the mix, I assume this is the cause or your alk spike..
There's a saying I have heard and used a lot in this hobby.. The bad things happen overnight and the goods things take forever in reef keeping..
Like I said, go back to what your were doing before the issues and then wait... The patience will go a long way to fixing things.
Thanks Matt, and sorry again for the thread hijack.

I think I'll stop testing N & P for a while and go back to what I was doing, as suggested.

The only way to cleanup your thread now is to photo bomb us with pictures!


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Old 11/26/2014, 06:59 AM   #53
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I'll post some pics of my system later, today I hope.
I'm not advocating not testing.. Just don't get too concerned by the results if your tank has been doing fine that way..
I might even say that over the long term, you could benefit from the vinegar you were using, but maybe not in the Kalk, unless you take it off the outdo top off and put it on a doser so you can better control the additions..


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Old 11/26/2014, 08:01 AM   #54
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Good luck on the comeback.

Sidebar- Where do you get calcium nitrate and how are you dosing it?


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Old 11/26/2014, 08:12 AM   #55
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Good luck on the comeback.

Sidebar- Where do you get calcium nitrate and how are you dosing it?
Thanks for the luck.. Need as much of that as patience and knowledge.. I guess one has to strike the balance there as well..

I got my cano3 from a hydroponics shop in Montreal..
They are not thrilled to sell it to strangers because it's big sister, sodium nitrate can be used to make bombs, I guess. Maybe cano3 can as well..
When I called to inquire about it, the person on the phone said they had nothing like that, but once I went in and talked with the guys a bit and they learned what I needed it for, they sold me some..
People say sodium nitrate is easier/better to use because it doesn't impact calcium levels like cano3 but in my experience, the quantity needed, generally, to raise n to just above 0 has little effect on the calcium level.. Maybe in a huge system, you might have an issue..

Oops, as for dosing, I dissolve it in ro water along with my vsv mix and add two doses a day- morning and night.


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Old 11/26/2014, 05:05 PM   #56
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Ok! Lighting.. I personally believe that for sps specifically, mh/t5 is the gold standard. There is something, something missing in LEDs to keep SOME sps from colouring up to absolute perfection.
I also find that sps.. in general become more finicky about water conditions and nutrient levels under leds... Just my personal experience and opinion..
When I set up this system two years ago, I knew that heat was going to be an issue and I wanted to give leds a try. I bought 3 GHL Mitras. I think they are fantastic lights. I probably only needed two but since I was going sps and being a strong believer in multiple point sources of light to reduce shading and base die off, I got three. I also wanted to make sure I had a cr-p load of light. Well, these light could probably completely fry any coral if they were turned up to full blast. I never ran them much above 50% of their capacity..
This time around, I am revisiting what I know and love... But keeping the mitras as well..

And when on.. The iPhone doesn't handle all that light very well so it tuned it all way down..

The mh are only 150 w and the t5s are 2 giesemann actinic+ and two giesemann true actinic.
I will probably only run the mh for about 6 hours in 2 hour intervals. The t5 will run all day and the LEDs will ramp up and down and have cloud coverage so that the corals will get random peaks and valleys in intensity and spectrum... Much like actual weather over a reef..


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Current Tank Info: 53x32.5x26 190g dt 60g of sumps 3 tank-100 gal frag system 4x AI prime 6xt5 3x150w mh. 4x maxspect gyre. Skimz Dual internal sicce pump skimmer Deltec PF601s ca rx+Kalk stirrer
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Old 11/26/2014, 05:40 PM   #57
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So Mitras, MH, and T5?


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Current Tank Info: 250G SPS Mixed Reef. ATLAS 84x28x24. SuperMarin 250. Cebu Sun 3 x 250WMH Radiums 4 x 80W T5. Profilux 3 w/GHL dosing CA-ALK-MG. Moved by Tunze and Vertex. Reef Octopus 5K return.
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Old 11/26/2014, 06:00 PM   #58
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Yessir! I'm taking a global approach to this reef..
I probably won't be using the white leds in the mitras much over30% at any given time in the program.
Definitely going to run the tank on the blue side and attempt more deep water acros... They've always been my favorite.
I keep editing this post and adding more info..
This is all gear that I already had..
In a year or so, if/when I have the results I want, I will experiment with removing the t5 and mh..


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Current Tank Info: 53x32.5x26 190g dt 60g of sumps 3 tank-100 gal frag system 4x AI prime 6xt5 3x150w mh. 4x maxspect gyre. Skimz Dual internal sicce pump skimmer Deltec PF601s ca rx+Kalk stirrer

Last edited by reefmutt; 11/26/2014 at 06:07 PM.
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Old 11/26/2014, 06:26 PM   #59
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LOL, global approach . I like your style!


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Mixed reef emphasis on SPS. Tangs, Triggers, Bartlets, CBB, Goldflake Angel, and a Pigmy or two.

Current Tank Info: 250G SPS Mixed Reef. ATLAS 84x28x24. SuperMarin 250. Cebu Sun 3 x 250WMH Radiums 4 x 80W T5. Profilux 3 w/GHL dosing CA-ALK-MG. Moved by Tunze and Vertex. Reef Octopus 5K return.
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Old 11/26/2014, 08:47 PM   #60
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. Glad you like it..
I'll also be using the global approach to nutrient/bacterial maintenance as well.
As I've said, I am using aio biopellets atm with a mixture of vodka, vinegar and honey (to pull down nutrients) but mixed with my cano3 to keep n up a bit.
I am using all three carbon (or 4 if you include the pellets) sources to cultivate as many different types of bacteria as possible. It is my understanding that each type of carbon; acetic acid, sugar and alcohol get consumed by different types of bacteria... Please correct me if I am wrong..
As my aio pellets reduce a bit, I will replace about 1/3 of them with ecobak plus pellets, again so as to cultivate as many different types of nutrient reducing bacteria as possible..
Sounds pretty complicated, but really, the pellets are tumbling in a reactor and the liquid carbons are mixed in to ro water which will eventually go on a doser. I test once a week and adjust my mix as needed..


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Current Tank Info: 53x32.5x26 190g dt 60g of sumps 3 tank-100 gal frag system 4x AI prime 6xt5 3x150w mh. 4x maxspect gyre. Skimz Dual internal sicce pump skimmer Deltec PF601s ca rx+Kalk stirrer
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Old 11/26/2014, 09:22 PM   #61
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Sounds pretty complicated..
You lost me right after 'Glad you like it'..........

I put a bag of phosguard in the sump a week ago Matt so don't be thinking i'm not up with cutting edge reef stuff buddy, old farts like me take a while to come around but we do watch and learn from you young blokes

An hour after putting it in the sump i fished the instructions out of the bin and read them just to make sure my instinctual approach to the phosguard method of use was correct, apart from missing the 1 min tap water rinse which 'activates' it i had absolutely nailed the rest of the process - place bag in water.

I like that light rig Matt, i run halide, T5 & LED all together and it gives you the best of all worlds really. What 150W bulbs will run mate.


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Old 11/26/2014, 09:51 PM   #62
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stick with me, biggles. The old and blind leading the old and blind.. Please bring your humor along with you whenever you visit it is always appreciated..
If I could get away with using a bit of phosguard in my sump, I would jump at the opportunity.. When my old system was running, I was using a dual chamber fluidized reactor with both chambers holding about 750 ml of RowaPhos. I would change one out every other week! I was going through literally tons of RowaPhos to keep my p at .15...
Once I started carbon dosing and using cano3 to maintain n, my p dropped to .03 without the need for any RowaPhos.
I didn't choose that method out of the blue.. It's the only method that works for me.. Over time, I will try to revert back to dsbs and cheato for nutrient control but for now, I'm sticking to what is working for me..
I have 20 xm bulbs. Again, I'm going blue.. I may change the t5 to something a little less blue... We'll see when the system is all up..


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Current Tank Info: 53x32.5x26 190g dt 60g of sumps 3 tank-100 gal frag system 4x AI prime 6xt5 3x150w mh. 4x maxspect gyre. Skimz Dual internal sicce pump skimmer Deltec PF601s ca rx+Kalk stirrer
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Old 11/26/2014, 10:44 PM   #63
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Love the light! I myself have thought about doing that exact same thing, but with my Radions. An pics of the other side to see how it's all attached? Only thing holding me back is making it look clean since my light is suspended over my tank (no canopy). Thanks!


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Old 11/27/2014, 07:04 AM   #64
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Matt, glad you've started a journal. Your old tank was AMAZING! That would be my dream reef! Will be following your tank journal very keenly.

I like your lighting system. The combo should work out fine. I dont know about the Mitras, but I have seen VERY good SPS colours in my buddies tanks who use at least a Gen 2 Pro. I stopped following the GHL Mitras thread a while back...just wasnt seeing enough good results/colourful SPS photos posted there...nor have I come across anyone in the UK using this light and having good success (ie similar level of success I've seen in Radion lit tanks).

Your old tank signifies that you are clearly an SPS veteran of high calibre. Look forward to this build.


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Old 11/27/2014, 07:31 AM   #65
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That's a great light. I expect that you will get some great coloration in your tank. Your old tank was amazing too. Well worth the effort for sure!.......................Jim


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Old 11/27/2014, 11:01 AM   #66
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Love the light! I myself have thought about doing that exact same thing, but with my Radions. An pics of the other side to see how it's all attached? Only thing holding me back is making it look clean since my light is suspended over my tank (no canopy). Thanks!
It ain't pretty enough to be hanging out in the open, that's for sure.
The leds and mh are attached to a set of aluminum 'L' rods which are perpendicular to the L brackets on the back wall and the t5 fixtures are hanging seperately from the L brackets that are attached to the back wall. My fixture is hidden so it's not too pretty..



There is one dual t5 fixtur that hangs behind and one in front..


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Current Tank Info: 53x32.5x26 190g dt 60g of sumps 3 tank-100 gal frag system 4x AI prime 6xt5 3x150w mh. 4x maxspect gyre. Skimz Dual internal sicce pump skimmer Deltec PF601s ca rx+Kalk stirrer
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Old 11/27/2014, 12:59 PM   #67
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Matt, glad you've started a journal. Your old tank was AMAZING! That would be my dream reef! Will be following your tank journal very keenly.

I like your lighting system. The combo should work out fine. I dont know about the Mitras, but I have seen VERY good SPS colours in my buddies tanks who use at least a Gen 2 Pro. I stopped following the GHL Mitras thread a while back...just wasnt seeing enough good results/colourful SPS photos posted there...nor have I come across anyone in the UK using this light and having good success (ie similar level of success I've seen in Radion lit tanks).

Your old tank signifies that you are clearly an SPS veteran of high calibre. Look forward to this build.
Hey Sahin! Welcome!! Thanks for the compliments on my old tank..
I hope I can replicate the results I had with that tank, on purpose this time instead of by accident, like I did then..
I own a pair of radion pro g2 which I run over one of my frag tanks and I have found that either light is as capable of colouring up the corals.. The difference, I think is that the mitras is more powerful, and have more leds in the white spectrum and these leds are more capable of frying or stressing acros. I think one has to be more careful using the mitras because of this.. This is why my white leds probably won't get much over 30% in my light recipe.. Those white LEDs... They are tricky..
So.. The cycle has begun.. This is all my old rock (all dead).. I added some live rock from my system today as seed..



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Current Tank Info: 53x32.5x26 190g dt 60g of sumps 3 tank-100 gal frag system 4x AI prime 6xt5 3x150w mh. 4x maxspect gyre. Skimz Dual internal sicce pump skimmer Deltec PF601s ca rx+Kalk stirrer
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Old 11/27/2014, 01:01 PM   #68
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That's a great light. I expect that you will get some great coloration in your tank. Your old tank was amazing too. Well worth the effort for sure!.......................Jim
Thanks, Jim!


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Old 11/27/2014, 01:07 PM   #69
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Trying to post some more old shots but the phone is not cooperating. I'll reset and try again..


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Old 11/27/2014, 01:13 PM   #70
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Love the light setup, personally I would add two coral+ or similar bulbs in the t5s just to change a little of the spectrums. It shouldn't kill your blues either. I can't wait to see them burning! I love the xm 20k but I thought I remembered the par being low. Doesn't the xm brand have some 22k bulbs or something now? Which ballasts are you running the t5s and halides with?


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Old 11/27/2014, 02:00 PM   #71
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I will look at the coral plus.. Was also thinking of the giesemann lagoon blue..
Could be right about the par, but I'm not that concerned.
I'm leaning toward deep waters anyways..
Not sure about the 22k.
If I'm not mistaken (the ballasts have been around for several years, now) they are early generation electronic ice cap ballasts.. I'll verify tonight when I get home..
Ok. Another attempt at posting some of the good stuff..




Still makes me all warm and fuzzy..


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Current Tank Info: 53x32.5x26 190g dt 60g of sumps 3 tank-100 gal frag system 4x AI prime 6xt5 3x150w mh. 4x maxspect gyre. Skimz Dual internal sicce pump skimmer Deltec PF601s ca rx+Kalk stirrer
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Old 11/27/2014, 02:05 PM   #72
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... The t5 ballasts are advance..




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Current Tank Info: 53x32.5x26 190g dt 60g of sumps 3 tank-100 gal frag system 4x AI prime 6xt5 3x150w mh. 4x maxspect gyre. Skimz Dual internal sicce pump skimmer Deltec PF601s ca rx+Kalk stirrer
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Old 11/27/2014, 04:30 PM   #73
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Good luck with the new setup Matt. I will have frags for you when the tank is ready!


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Old 11/27/2014, 04:35 PM   #74
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Music to my ears, Eric!


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Current Tank Info: 53x32.5x26 190g dt 60g of sumps 3 tank-100 gal frag system 4x AI prime 6xt5 3x150w mh. 4x maxspect gyre. Skimz Dual internal sicce pump skimmer Deltec PF601s ca rx+Kalk stirrer
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Old 11/27/2014, 06:13 PM   #75
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I am using all three carbon (or 4 if you include the pellets) sources to cultivate as many different types of bacteria as possible. It is my understanding that each type of carbon; acetic acid, sugar and alcohol get consumed by different types of bacteria...
Hi mate,

This is an interesting idea. Where did you develop your understanding? Would you please share your source or provide citation to scientific literature?

I am not suggesting that you are wrong. I simply want to know more about how different bacteria utilise different carbon sources differently. I read extensively. However, I have not read about the affect of different carbon sources on bacteria strains.

Keep up the good work.

PS. If you used Luminarc mini reflectors you could get a lot better efficiency from your DE MH bulbs. Having said that I am not sure if they could be accommodated due to their shape, but they are arguably the best reflectors in my opinion.


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