Need help sourcing Led Drivers

R_Mc · 01/31/2015, 04:47 PM

Phoning the veterans on this one.

I'm planning on running either 2 or 4 drivers for the following configuration:

SPECIFICATIONS:
LED Configuration

Channel 1:
Cree XPE Royal Blue 5pcs
DC Forward Voltage (VF): 15V
DC Forward Current (IF): 350mA ~ 1000mA

Channel 2:
Cree XPE Red 3pcs
Epileds Cyan 2pcs
DC Forward Voltage (VF): 12V
DC Forward Current (IF): 350mA ~ 600mA

Channel 3:
XPE Cool White 6500K 5pcs
DC Forward Voltage (VF): 15V
DC Forward Current (IF): 350mA ~ 1000mA

Channel 4:
Cree XPE Blue 3pcs
Epileds 420nm Purple 2pcs
DC Forward Voltage (VF): 13V ~ 14V
DC Forward Current (IF): 350mA ~ 600mA

To drive everything at the lowest pricepoint I think i'd have to use one 600ma for channels 2 and 4, then a 1a driver for channels 1 and 3. The downside is control over color mixing.

I already have a 15-24V dc power source (70W), so I only need DC-DC drivers.

looking at this series right now: http://www.digikey.com/product-detai...FX1-ND/2303643 but they're $14/20 per driver

Anyone know a cheap DC-DC solution for driving each channel individually?

Thanks

O2Surplus · 01/31/2015, 05:22 PM

Use Meanwell LDD-H drivers. They're only 7-8 bucks each and available from most of the online DIY led sellers. They're a pretty popular driver choice around here. Rapid's got 'em-http://www.rapidled.com/dimmable-drivers/

zachts · 02/01/2015, 12:32 AM

Cheaper from powergate as long as you're ordering more than just 4......shipping is a little high...

theatrus · 02/01/2015, 01:18 AM

All in one solution? Meanwell LDD.

Custom PCB? You can do cheaper in quantity. But for a one-off build probably not.

R_Mc · 02/01/2015, 08:10 AM

Thanks - these look perfect. I want to start with simple analog dimming. Will have to look up an addon circuit for that.

zachts · 02/01/2015, 10:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by R_Mc

Thanks - these look perfect. I want to start with simple analog dimming. Will have to look up an addon circuit for that.

there are several floating around google "10 volt to pwm converter" works with a pot and a 10v power supply (some don't need the extra power supply)

or

make your own using a cheap arduino pro mini (or any arduino for that matter) and pots to do the conversion and dimming (actually all the boards use an arduino chip anyhow) a very basic sketch (attached) would do the conversion of the pot setting and output pwm to the drivers. you could convert it to a proper controller latter via revised sketch and adding an RTC, lcd screen, and buttons and such.

O2Surplus · 02/01/2015, 02:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zachts

there are several floating around google "10 volt to pwm converter" works with a pot and a 10v power supply (some don't need the extra power supply)

or

make your own using a cheap arduino pro mini (or any arduino for that matter) and pots to do the conversion and dimming (actually all the boards use an arduino chip anyhow) a very basic sketch (attached) would do the conversion of the pot setting and output pwm to the drivers. you could convert it to a proper controller latter via revised sketch and adding an RTC, lcd screen, and buttons and such.

Here's the simple dimmer that I build. 4 independent channels of 8bit dimming with just the twist of a knob.

perkint · 02/02/2015, 02:38 AM

You say you're thinking of 2 or 4 drivers.

If your PSU only goes to 24V, you need 4 drivers or to run the strings in parallel. 4 drivers is a much better bet...

Tim

SeargentSlice · 02/02/2015, 05:47 AM

I cant link source for some reason ill try pm

R_Mc · 02/02/2015, 03:42 PM

I'm thinking I can just use 4 of these for PWM on the cheap? would be <$15 to control all 4 channels. Cant find anything close to this out there.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/2A-Motor-Spe...item2ed86b08ce

If there's a better part at a similar price let me know. I'm not exactly sure how the output is controlled or...what it is with this item. Also seems totally overkill at 30W. There must be a cheaper/simpler pure PWM (no drive) solution.

R_Mc · 02/02/2015, 03:47 PM

Wait a minute:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/3-5-PC-Compu...item418fcc029d

This would be great! Is it a PWM controller? It's my understanding that that is how fan speed is modulated.

oreo57 · 02/02/2015, 03:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by R_Mc

I'm thinking I can just use 4 of these for PWM on the cheap? would be <$15 to control all 4 channels. Cant find anything close to this out there.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/2A-Motor-Spe...item2ed86b08ce

If there's a better part at a similar price let me know. I'm not exactly sure how the output is controlled or...what it is with this item. Also seems totally overkill at 30W. There must be a cheaper/simpler pure PWM (no drive) solution.

Not sure why nobody uses or mentions them but Buck pucks come like this:

Generally they are more expensive than Meanwells..
Or add a $50 Typhon from Steves for a 4 channel PWM dimmer...
But back to your orig problem..PWM signal based on a 555 timing chip..
http://www.ebay.com/itm/like/3211439...lpid=82&chn=ps

Quote:

Module Parameters:

Module Size: 45 * 24 * 25mm

Main Chip: NE555
Working Voltage: DC 4~16V
Working current: no higher than 10mA
Maximum Output Current: 225mA
Output Frequency: 10Khz ( buyer can change frequency by changing capacitor)
Output duty ratio adjustable 0~100%

add a 5V PS and you "should" be good to go.. (have others verify this though)
Problem is it 4 are 1/2 the price of a 4 channel Typhon.. and all "manual"...........

http://shop.stevesleds.com/Typhon-Ty...8794102479.htm

asdfghp · 02/02/2015, 04:05 PM

Hi,
I've had good luck with various components from stevesleds.com
Also Led group buy.com
Color mixing is done with an AB PLC and Maple Systems HMI via 0-10v output going thru a PWM converter. Dial up what ever color or mood suits your fancy. Can make some pretty sweet light shows, too!
J

R_Mc · 02/02/2015, 04:24 PM

Looks like the only reason I may not be able to use the fan speed controller is the PWM frequency... Anyone have a datasheet for the product linked? Looking at similar I'm seeing very high speed PWM for 4 pin fans and relatively low speed (30hz) for 3 pin?

I assume that these fan speed controllers are 555 based - if so It's likely that I could change the timing with a capacitor swap, right?

Spec for LDD pwm input is 100hz-1khz

oreo57 · 02/02/2015, 04:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by R_Mc

Wait a minute:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/3-5-PC-Compu...item418fcc029d

This would be great! Is it a PWM controller? It's my understanding that that is how fan speed is modulated.

no...

Quote:

Maximum Adjustable Range: 5-12V

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...9SIA3XT1R66878

Quote:

Input voltage :12V
Output voltage:5V to 12V

R_Mc · 02/02/2015, 04:54 PM

Not sure what you mean - the specs I'm seeing for fans: http://www.sanyo-denki.com/currentco...alog/index.pdf

indicate that they're controlled with a similar off @ 0-.4VDC on @ 2~5VDC like the meanwell. I believe that the 5~12V indicates the "high" voltage on the output, not the low-high.

\The real question is just the PWM frequency which looks to be 25KHZ based on the same datasheet above - 25x faster than the max spec provided by meanwell... hrmm...

Has anyone tried controlling with a much faster PWM frequency than specced? if so - how did the driver output behave?

oreo57 · 02/02/2015, 04:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by R_Mc

Not sure what you mean - the specs I'm seeing for fans: http://www.sanyo-denki.com/currentco...alog/index.pdf

indicate that they're controlled with a similar off @ 0-.4VDC on @ 2~5VDC like the meanwell. I believe that the 5~12V indicates the "high" voltage on the output, not the low-high.

you asked about a "pot" controller.. Doesn't matter what the fan wants..
That controller is simple voltage limiter via resistance AFAICT...

you know, I have to ask this.. Why are you trying to skimp on the very thing that makes LED's so desirable?.. dimming, programming and control.. Makes no sense..
The Typhon is just a pre-programmed aduino w/ "shields" like a clock chip ect.. Not pushing it per se.. just a bit baffled..

If you get PWM controlled fans you are still back at square one...

R_Mc · 02/02/2015, 05:03 PM

Man that wouldn't work... you're absolutely right. I guess I'm looking for a PWM based fan speed controller - which also seem to be out there and look almost identical...

http://www.frozencpu.com/products/15...-cAaAoss8P8HAQ

oreo57 · 02/02/2015, 05:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by R_Mc

Man that wouldn't work... you're absolutely right. I guess I'm looking for a PWM based fan speed controller - which also seem to be out there and look almost identical...

http://www.frozencpu.com/products/15...-cAaAoss8P8HAQ

worth a read:
http://www.swiftech.com/pwmcontrollers.aspx
http://www.overclockers.com/pwm-fan-controller/

Actually it "is" a bit more complicated than I orig. assumed..
But still leads me back to this:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/like/3211439...lpid=82&chn=ps

zachts · 02/02/2015, 06:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by R_Mc

I'm thinking I can just use 4 of these for PWM on the cheap? would be <$15 to control all 4 channels. Cant find anything close to this out there.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/2A-Motor-Spe...item2ed86b08ce

If there's a better part at a similar price let me know. I'm not exactly sure how the output is controlled or...what it is with this item. Also seems totally overkill at 30W. There must be a cheaper/simpler pure PWM (no drive) solution.

arduino pro mini ~$5
4 pots either 5kohm or 10kom, dirt cheap ($1.50 from steves leds also all over the net)
.....plus, you then have the flexibility to turn it into a controller later.......
total cost ~$9, (but then you have some shipping or just get the leds from steves also....)
Just my two cents.

zachts · 02/02/2015, 06:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by oreo57

you asked about a "pot" controller.. Doesn't matter what the fan wants..
That controller is simple voltage limiter via resistance AFAICT...

you know, I have to ask this.. Why are you trying to skimp on the very thing that makes LED's so desirable?.. dimming, programming and control.. Makes no sense..
The Typhon is just a pre-programmed aduino w/ "shields" like a clock chip ect.. Not pushing it per se.. just a bit baffled..

If you get PWM controlled fans you are still back at square one...

Better than the typhon is the storm controller, about $10 more but way way better IMHO!

oreo57 · 02/02/2015, 06:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zachts

Better than the typhon is the storm controller, about $10 more but way way better IMHO!

Every time I look at that one .. I lean to the Storm X.......Currently the Storm is $15 more.. Storm X about..$50 more..

zachts · 02/02/2015, 08:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by oreo57

Every time I look at that one .. I lean to the Storm X.......Currently the Storm is $15 more.. Storm X about..$50 more..

LOL! how many really need more than 6 channels though?.......well other than me

perkint · 02/03/2015, 07:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zachts

arduino pro mini ~$5
4 pots either 5kohm or 10kom, dirt cheap ($1.50 from steves leds also all over the net)
.....plus, you then have the flexibility to turn it into a controller later.......
total cost ~$9, (but then you have some shipping or just get the leds from steves also....)
Just my two cents.

This!!!

As if it was designed for the LDDs and can easily update from manual dimming by adding a $1 RTC and have it control the LEDs automatically to add sunrise, sunset, moonlights, etc.

Tim

R_Mc · 02/03/2015, 07:59 AM

I'll have to read up on the arduino option. Any links to more detailed instruction would be very helpful.

but at the very least - it looks like I'll at least need a FTDI breakout board, breakaway headers:
https://www.sparkfun.com/products/9873 $15
https://www.sparkfun.com/products/116 $1.50

Which brings me back up to the mid $20's and about the same cost as just buying 4 pwm controllers again.

01/31/2015, 04:47 PM	#1
R_Mc Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2013 Posts: 204	Need help sourcing Led Drivers Phoning the veterans on this one. I'm planning on running either 2 or 4 drivers for the following configuration: SPECIFICATIONS: LED Configuration Channel 1: Cree XPE Royal Blue 5pcs DC Forward Voltage (VF): 15V DC Forward Current (IF): 350mA ~ 1000mA Channel 2: Cree XPE Red 3pcs Epileds Cyan 2pcs DC Forward Voltage (VF): 12V DC Forward Current (IF): 350mA ~ 600mA Channel 3: XPE Cool White 6500K 5pcs DC Forward Voltage (VF): 15V DC Forward Current (IF): 350mA ~ 1000mA Channel 4: Cree XPE Blue 3pcs Epileds 420nm Purple 2pcs DC Forward Voltage (VF): 13V ~ 14V DC Forward Current (IF): 350mA ~ 600mA To drive everything at the lowest pricepoint I think i'd have to use one 600ma for channels 2 and 4, then a 1a driver for channels 1 and 3. The downside is control over color mixing. I already have a 15-24V dc power source (70W), so I only need DC-DC drivers. looking at this series right now: http://www.digikey.com/product-detai...FX1-ND/2303643 but they're $14/20 per driver Anyone know a cheap DC-DC solution for driving each channel individually? Thanks

01/31/2015, 05:22 PM	#2
O2Surplus Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: "The Land of Fruits & Nuts" Posts: 879	Use Meanwell LDD-H drivers. They're only 7-8 bucks each and available from most of the online DIY led sellers. They're a pretty popular driver choice around here. Rapid's got 'em-http://www.rapidled.com/dimmable-drivers/ __________________ I love the smell of molten solder in the morning.

02/01/2015, 01:18 AM	#4
theatrus 100-mile-commuter Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: almost nevada Posts: 4,721	All in one solution? Meanwell LDD. Custom PCB? You can do cheaper in quantity. But for a one-off build probably not. __________________ Custom electronics purveyor. blueAcro.com Current Tank Info: 90g SPS+mixed reef (10 yrs): LEDBrick LEDs, 40g custom sump, Ca reactor, chiller, Vortech, lots of custom electronics

02/02/2015, 05:47 AM	#9
SeargentSlice Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2012 Location: Weathersfield, OHIO Posts: 219	I cant link source for some reason ill try pm __________________ Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil: for thou art with me; thy rod and thy staff they comfort me. Current Tank Info: 150XH SPS, Alpha 170, Lumenbright, 250 Radium / ATI Blue Plus

02/02/2015, 04:05 PM	#13
asdfghp Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2014 Location: New England Posts: 89	Hi, I've had good luck with various components from stevesleds.com Also Led group buy.com Color mixing is done with an AB PLC and Maple Systems HMI via 0-10v output going thru a PWM converter. Dial up what ever color or mood suits your fancy. Can make some pretty sweet light shows, too! J Last edited by asdfghp; 02/02/2015 at 04:12 PM.

02/01/2015, 12:32 AM	#3
zachts Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: St. Louis, MO. Posts: 3,259	Cheaper from powergate as long as you're ordering more than just 4......shipping is a little high...

02/01/2015, 08:10 AM	#5
R_Mc Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2013 Posts: 204	Thanks - these look perfect. I want to start with simple analog dimming. Will have to look up an addon circuit for that.

02/02/2015, 02:38 AM	#8
perkint Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2014 Location: Robin hood country, UK Posts: 817	You say you're thinking of 2 or 4 drivers. If your PSU only goes to 24V, you need 4 drivers or to run the strings in parallel. 4 drivers is a much better bet... Tim

02/02/2015, 03:42 PM	#10
R_Mc Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2013 Posts: 204	I'm thinking I can just use 4 of these for PWM on the cheap? would be <$15 to control all 4 channels. Cant find anything close to this out there. http://www.ebay.com/itm/2A-Motor-Spe...item2ed86b08ce If there's a better part at a similar price let me know. I'm not exactly sure how the output is controlled or...what it is with this item. Also seems totally overkill at 30W. There must be a cheaper/simpler pure PWM (no drive) solution.

02/02/2015, 03:47 PM	#11
R_Mc Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2013 Posts: 204	Wait a minute: http://www.ebay.com/itm/3-5-PC-Compu...item418fcc029d This would be great! Is it a PWM controller? It's my understanding that that is how fan speed is modulated.

02/02/2015, 04:24 PM	#14
R_Mc Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2013 Posts: 204	Looks like the only reason I may not be able to use the fan speed controller is the PWM frequency... Anyone have a datasheet for the product linked? Looking at similar I'm seeing very high speed PWM for 4 pin fans and relatively low speed (30hz) for 3 pin? I assume that these fan speed controllers are 555 based - if so It's likely that I could change the timing with a capacitor swap, right? Spec for LDD pwm input is 100hz-1khz Last edited by R_Mc; 02/02/2015 at 04:43 PM.

02/02/2015, 04:54 PM	#16
R_Mc Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2013 Posts: 204	Not sure what you mean - the specs I'm seeing for fans: http://www.sanyo-denki.com/currentco...alog/index.pdf indicate that they're controlled with a similar off @ 0-.4VDC on @ 2~5VDC like the meanwell. I believe that the 5~12V indicates the "high" voltage on the output, not the low-high. \The real question is just the PWM frequency which looks to be 25KHZ based on the same datasheet above - 25x faster than the max spec provided by meanwell... hrmm... Has anyone tried controlling with a much faster PWM frequency than specced? if so - how did the driver output behave?

02/02/2015, 05:03 PM	#18
R_Mc Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2013 Posts: 204	Man that wouldn't work... you're absolutely right. I guess I'm looking for a PWM based fan speed controller - which also seem to be out there and look almost identical... http://www.frozencpu.com/products/15...-cAaAoss8P8HAQ

02/03/2015, 07:59 AM	#25
R_Mc Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2013 Posts: 204	I'll have to read up on the arduino option. Any links to more detailed instruction would be very helpful. but at the very least - it looks like I'll at least need a FTDI breakout board, breakaway headers: https://www.sparkfun.com/products/9873 $15 https://www.sparkfun.com/products/116 $1.50 Which brings me back up to the mid $20's and about the same cost as just buying 4 pwm controllers again. Last edited by R_Mc; 02/03/2015 at 08:30 AM.