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Unread 05/21/2015, 06:08 PM   #226
dave.m
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You should follow the manufacturer's recommendations on skimmer size for your system. The thing with external skimmers is that when they overflow they do it all over the floor. When an in-sump skimmer overflows it tends to stay in the sump.

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Unread 05/21/2015, 06:29 PM   #227
CuzzA
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I agree with Dave. In fact if a piece of equipment can be in or above the sump, that's where I put it. While your homes drain design saves your home from a flood, it may not save livestock, other equipment, etc. Better to just eliminate the potential risk. In fact, there was recently a post in this forum where a brand new external skimmer sprung a leak and created a mess. The company told him to put epoxy on it. :/

That said, I don't believe Royal makes a skimmer anywhere in the range of your tank. At least not according to their own specs from a brief look at their website.

I'll mention it again as another option to seriously look at. If I recall correctly, ATB created the cone skimmer. So every other cone skimmer out there copied them, that should speaks volumes. The bottom line is this, you want a skimmer from a manufacturer who has taken the time to match the air and water input.

I've had many conversations with a local skimmer manufacturer in my area that used to build some of the best skimmers on the market. I don't want to call out any companies, but through our conversations I learned a lot about skimmers and who out there just slaps a cheap Chinese pump on some acrylic and who has actually spent months testing and figuring out what design produces the maximum efficiency. Ultimately, from my conversations with him, I'll eventually be replacing the Reef Octopus 5000 that I currently have for the 300 gallon (tank shipped today, woohoo) and going with an ATB. But they aren't cheap.

And not to start a debate, I'm certainly not implying that there aren't other quality skimmers manufacturers out there. Just do a search on here for the best skimmer and see what comes up and if the company offers a product that will work for your size system. Then narrow it down and call the company and ask questions. This is a big tank and a big investment.

I hope this helps. Looking forward to some more pics.



Last edited by CuzzA; 05/21/2015 at 06:36 PM.
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Unread 05/21/2015, 07:13 PM   #228
Socaltoaz
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Leaks and drains are not a concern. Both the tank and the fish room are depressed 3 inches to control floods. So if the skimmer leaks, no big deal as the massive drain in the fish room will catch it all.

As far as size- bubble king makes skimmers up to 20,000 liters- much bigger than my tank. I have never heard of atb, not that means any thing- but I will check em out.

Also- with regards to cheap parts and cheap skimmers- just tell me who to avoid. ��. Private message is fine.


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Unread 05/21/2015, 07:35 PM   #229
CuzzA
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Yes, the house may be fine from an external leak, but what about the livestock? At least an internal leak would keep the water in the system and also protect other equipment from potential damage. Just something to think about, that's all.

The two largest skimmers I see from Royal is one up to 793 gallons (Too small) and the second is up to 5283 gallons (Way too big).

You may have mentioned it earlier, but do you know what your "total system volume" is going to be? You're going to definitely want to match the correct size skimmer to your system. Skimmers work exponentially better the dirtier the water is. If the skimmer is too small it will never keep up with the waste, if it's too big it won't produce skimmate until the water is dirty enough and at that point you'll be fighting nutrient issues. This is why I don't like recirculating skimmers. We want to be constantly skimming the dirty water coming from the tank, not recycling the same water in the skimmer until it's super clean.


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Unread 05/21/2015, 07:58 PM   #230
Socaltoaz
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Good point about the leaking. That makes more sense.

Total water volume will be roughly 1000 gallons. Final dimensions of the tank is 96 long, 48 deep, 40 high which equates to roughly 800 gallons. Add in a couple hundred gallons for the sump and the total volume is 1000 gallons.

Here are some photos from today:

Front Door



Here is the side door as you see it down the main hallway



A picture of the great room- shows the family room, where the tank will sit and the big glass sliding doors that can be fully opened for indoor outdoor living:



My wine cellar door. Perfectly matches the side door to the house. They are on opposite ends of the hallway:





All paint is scheduled to be finished next week. Cabinets and trim start June 1. Tank is scheduled to be delivered June 15th or so.


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Unread 05/21/2015, 08:13 PM   #231
Socaltoaz
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Royal Exclusiv 300 Internal DC RD3 - up to 4000 liters. Perfect for my size:
http://royalexclusiv.net/Skimmers/Sk...edy::1459.html


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Unread 05/21/2015, 08:15 PM   #232
Socaltoaz
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Here is another. Not sure of the difference between the two. Need to spend some time on the net this weekend- up to 4000 liters
http://royalexclusiv.net/Skimmers/Sk...ernal::53.html


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Unread 05/21/2015, 08:38 PM   #233
CuzzA
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Good catch, I must have missed the 300. I was looking on their US site and I don't see the 400 on there. Looks like they put two pumps on the 400. Pretty big jump in price from the 300. I've heard nothing but good things about BK and especially the Red Dragon pumps. Same pump ATB uses. I don't have personal experience so hopefully others will chime in.

Houses is looking great. It's amazing how quick we build houses these days.


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Unread 05/21/2015, 09:18 PM   #234
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Amazing build. Following along.


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Unread 05/21/2015, 10:38 PM   #235
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Speechless. Following.


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Unread 05/24/2015, 02:48 AM   #236
lilise
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Socaltoaz View Post
Leaks and drains are not a concern. Both the tank and the fish room are depressed 3 inches to control floods. So if the skimmer leaks, no big deal as the massive drain in the fish room will catch it all.

As far as size- bubble king makes skimmers up to 20,000 liters- much bigger than my tank. I have never heard of atb, not that means any thing- but I will check em out.

Also- with regards to cheap parts and cheap skimmers- just tell me who to avoid. ��. Private message is fine.


Here is a comparaison between 3 of my skimmers. On right side you'll find the ATB, middle BBK 300 external, and an ATI 200 is on left.






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Unread 05/24/2015, 08:50 AM   #237
Socaltoaz
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Ok- I gotta ask- why 3 skimmers? And which one you like best?


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Unread 05/24/2015, 02:02 PM   #238
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Just wanted to say that it was a pleasure meeting you and having you over! I am looking forward to seeing your build progress! This is going to be one hell of a system!


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Unread 05/24/2015, 05:40 PM   #239
Socaltoaz
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Scott- thanks for your great hospitality and a chance to check out your amazing reef. One of the best systems Ive ever seen!


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Unread 05/25/2015, 11:55 AM   #240
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I'm designing the sump. I'm planning on filter socks, carbon, gfo, uv. I'll try to get a schematic up later today. I've modified it from my previous post as we have eliminated the closed loop in the system.


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Unread 05/25/2015, 04:16 PM   #241
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Im very excited that I think I finally have my sump and skimmer nailed down. Thanks to Silef for his help and hospitality in showing me his set up. If you recall previously from this thread, there was a lot of back and forth on deciding open vs closed loop and the exact filtration and piping. Attached is a schematic after numerous consultations, calculations and the sort of exactly what we decided to do.

In short, we eliminated the closed loop system. Just too many potential issues and maintenance can be problematic in case of a leak. I wont rehash the whole decision other than to say my goal is to keep the plumbing as simple and efficient as possible and this goes a long way towards accomplishing that goal.

As such, here is a new schematic of what Im planning on doing.



There will be 2 drains and two returns for the water flow plus plenty of power heads, wave makers and the such to ensure that through the filter and skimmer we get 10x flow (roughly 10,000 gph) and that we get roughly 40x flow through the whole tank. That will come from the power heads.

Im planning on getting a custom sump so that all the equipment (or atleast as much as possible) in the sump itself so that plumbing is minimal and maintenance is easy. The schematic shows plans for filter socks, skimmer, UV and media reactors.

At this time I don't know what else I need to run in terms of filtration but that should pretty much cover it. I know there are a 1000 different things you can do for filtration and everyone has their biases but in my opinion, sometimes simplicity is best and thats how we are planning it.

I will set up the RO/DI unit with automated water changes. The whole system will be likely apex controlled and the skimmer will have an auto wash feature so that cleaning the system will comprise of washing the filter socks as needed and keeping the glass clean on the aquarium.

Yes I understand that there are a ton of other duties required to maintain a large tank but this setup should accomplish my goal of simplicity.

With regards to the rest of the house, paint is scheduled to be completed later this week. Cabinets, trim, doors, tile all start a week from today. Fireplaces and other stone is going in the house.

Lots to show you guys in about 2 weeks when there will be significant changes made.


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Unread 05/25/2015, 08:19 PM   #242
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whatever you do, just make sure you got lots of unions and valves everywhere your system will change over time no matter how good you plan!


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Unread 05/25/2015, 08:51 PM   #243
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Curious, have you considered Ozone instead of UV?


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Unread 05/25/2015, 09:03 PM   #244
Socaltoaz
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rudimenta View Post
whatever you do, just make sure you got lots of unions and valves everywhere your system will change over time no matter how good you plan!
Agree that all systems evolve over time. However even if things evolve, the sump will remain the same. Water in, water out. I can always run a manifold off the sump to add stuff later.


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Curious, have you considered Ozone instead of UV?
I have but I hear that UV is more fool proof and ozone you have to fiddle with it more. Im assuming you are doing ozone? Im open to hearing about the benefits of ozone and not opposed to having ozone.


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Unread 05/25/2015, 10:05 PM   #245
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I have but I hear that UV is more fool proof and ozone you have to fiddle with it more. Im assuming you are doing ozone? Im open to hearing about the benefits of ozone and not opposed to having ozone.

I agree with you, the advantage of UV is that it is very foolproof....turn it on and change the bulb as needed. I am going to give Ozone a try on these systems, it will be my first time using it. I used UV for several years on my current 240, while I'm sure it was doing some good, when I stopped using it I noticed no difference in the tank.

My hope is that I will see a difference in water clarity from the Ozone. The skimmers I'm going to use allow Ozone to be pumped into the skimmer directly. I'm hoping this will make it very simple and low maintenance.

Chemistry was not my favorite science, so I found this article informative for me. Though several years old, it was the best info I could find.

http://www.reefkeeping.com/issues/2006-03/rhf/index.php


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Unread 05/25/2015, 10:39 PM   #246
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You could start a real battle royale over using UV. Some people swear their systems run better with it while others see no benefit to justify the cost. There are clear effects using ozone, but it is so powerful that you need to pay a lot more attention to it. Ozone not only kills whatever is in your water, it can also corrode pipes and hoses that aren't ozone-proof, and ozone leaking into the house's atmosphere is no joke at all. It can really hurt you. I have run ozone, but only at night to help keep the pH up and the water oxygenated.

Dave.M


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Unread 05/26/2015, 09:09 AM   #247
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Originally Posted by dave.m View Post
You could start a real battle royale over using UV. Some people swear their systems run better with it while others see no benefit to justify the cost. There are clear effects using ozone, but it is so powerful that you need to pay a lot more attention to it. Ozone not only kills whatever is in your water, it can also corrode pipes and hoses that aren't ozone-proof, and ozone leaking into the house's atmosphere is no joke at all. It can really hurt you. I have run ozone, but only at night to help keep the pH up and the water oxygenated.

Dave.M
Dave I'm curious which manufacturer you prefer for ozone?


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Unread 05/26/2015, 10:11 AM   #248
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The only tank I had ozone on was actually using a unit intended for swimming pools. No, I did not set that tank up, but the unit did its job just fine. I don't like to get into brand names too much as availability varies from country to country.

Dave.M


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Unread 05/26/2015, 11:41 AM   #249
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Spent a lot of time doing a lot of reading yesterday on ozone. For me right now, there are too many negatives to ozone over the positives. Im gonna stick with just UV for now.


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Unread 05/26/2015, 12:06 PM   #250
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Are you running a herbie with the two 2" drains or will they both be active?


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