Reef Central Online Community

Go Back   Reef Central Online Community > General Interest Forums > Reef Discussion
Blogs FAQ Calendar Mark Forums Read

Notices

User Tag List

Reply
Thread Tools
Unread 02/08/2015, 04:06 PM   #1
jimrawr
Registered Member
 
jimrawr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Palm Beach County, FL
Posts: 1,887
Thinking of going barebottom - anyone have any regrets doing this?

I am thinking about removing my shallow sand bed and going bare bottom. The reason is the SB seems to be a magnet for the uglies. Diatoms, cyano, detritus collection, etc. None of these seem to collect on rock work, so I am thinking if I remove the sand, the tank will just be healthier overall and without cyano, etc.

Anyways, I am wondering if anyone went from having a sand bed, to BB, and regretted it?


__________________
Tank Info: 75g, 40g Sump, AquaMaxx Skimmer, Two Tunze 6095, ATI 8x52", Bubble Magus Dosing Pump, Apex Controller, Tunze ATO.
jimrawr is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 02/08/2015, 04:08 PM   #2
Sk8r
RC Mod
 
Sk8r's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Spokane WA
Posts: 34,628
Blog Entries: 55
Unless you maintain strong circulation at all levels the unsightliness will tend to collect at a spot on the bottom glass. There's not much escaping detritus of some sort.


__________________
Sk8r

Salinity 1.024-6; alkalinity 8.3-9.3 on KH scale; calcium 420; magnesium 1300, temp 78-80, nitrate .2. Ammonia 0. No filters: lps tank. Alk and cal won't rise if mg is low.

Current Tank Info: 105g AquaVim wedge, yellow tang, sailfin blenny,royal gramma, ocellaris clown pair, yellow watchman, 100 microceriths, 25 tiny hermits, a 4" conch, 1" nassarius, recovering from 2 year hiatus with daily water change of 10%.
Sk8r is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 02/08/2015, 04:27 PM   #3
jimrawr
Registered Member
 
jimrawr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Palm Beach County, FL
Posts: 1,887
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sk8r View Post
Unless you maintain strong circulation at all levels the unsightliness will tend to collect at a spot on the bottom glass. There's not much escaping detritus of some sort.
Right, but then its easier to siphon out. It seems like right now the SB is just collecting everything it can (po4, detritus). Then when it starts to leach out, the algae growth happens on the SB as well. If I can remove that, get the crud out, and let algae growth happen on my scrubber instead, that would be good. I wonder if people see a drastic decrease in cyano once the SB is removed, or if it just starts to grow on the rock instead?


__________________
Tank Info: 75g, 40g Sump, AquaMaxx Skimmer, Two Tunze 6095, ATI 8x52", Bubble Magus Dosing Pump, Apex Controller, Tunze ATO.
jimrawr is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 02/08/2015, 04:35 PM   #4
Sprink669
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: north canton
Posts: 73
I have a 60 cube that I siphoned the sand out and I am really happy with it. I have 2 MP10's. I sucked out as much as I could each water change, 20 gallons. No regrets at all and no dead spots.
I have a 40 breeder with "star-board" white bottom I am going to be setting up soon.


Sprink669 is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 02/08/2015, 05:03 PM   #5
whosurcaddie
Registered Member
 
whosurcaddie's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 2,354
Its not worth it. The amount of poop that piles up in a single day is enormous and becomes an eyesore. snails fish crabs all poop and it will all end up in one pile. If you don't mind siphoning every day then go for it otherwise your gonna be disappointed. Either that or having to siphon every day will get old fast.


whosurcaddie is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 02/08/2015, 05:18 PM   #6
whiteshark
Registered Member
 
whiteshark's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Bethlehem, PA
Posts: 3,024
I have absolutely no regrets with my solid epoxied sand bottom. All the advantages of the looks of sand and the benefits of BB.


__________________
Deep Blue 60 gallon cube: Setup in progress.
whiteshark is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 02/08/2015, 05:28 PM   #7
CStrickland
Registered Member
 
CStrickland's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: New England, U.S.
Posts: 4,595
You might want a little more flow than just the 2 tunzes in your sig if that's all you have. People seem happier with them if the flow keeps detritus floating until it's drawn into the sump. I cycled my tank bb to get an idea of the flow patterns and everything, it's crazy how much gross stuff will just rot in your sand if you let it. I would not have believed how much nasty is hiding on the bottom if I hadn't seen it myself.

Also, depending how old your sand is and how well it's been cleaned, sometimes it gets saturated with nutrients. If you take it out and you don't like bb, replacing it with fresh sand might help the algae (once the diatoms clear)


CStrickland is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 02/08/2015, 06:27 PM   #8
DaveRaz
Reef Rookie
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Memphis
Posts: 625
Personally I think BB is ugly. Don't get me wrong, I've seen many beautiful BB tanks but they look better with sand substrate. I vaccum it every other week while doing a water change. The bb have to be vaccumed as well so I don't see the advantage. With 1-2" of sand its cake to keep clean.


DaveRaz is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 02/08/2015, 06:35 PM   #9
rffanat1c
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Kenosha, WI
Posts: 693
Started bb and still love it. Everything collects in one corner behind one rock. I've got a 90G with one MP40. Plus I painted the underside of my tank with a sand colored paint to make it look nicer. Got coralline growing on the bottom glass too


rffanat1c is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 02/08/2015, 06:45 PM   #10
ShannyG
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Posts: 212
Absolutely no regrets. Blow out under the rocks a couple of times a week with a turkey baster and let your mechanical filtration pick it up. I have a pile of sand in one corner for my dragonet that stays more or less in place. I don't see much detritus and I feed a lot.


ShannyG is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 02/08/2015, 06:51 PM   #11
whiteshark
Registered Member
 
whiteshark's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Bethlehem, PA
Posts: 3,024
The biggest problem I've found with sand is not keeping it clean, but keeping it in place. I want my SPS tank blasting with flow, and no sand will stay put. If you don't need major flow, I think a sand bed is fine. For SPS to thrive, and to eliminate dead spots, well I think it's very difficult to achieve with loose sand.

I do much prefer the look of a tank with a sand bed, though. Again, this is why I'm so happy with the epoxied sand bottom.


__________________
Deep Blue 60 gallon cube: Setup in progress.
whiteshark is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 02/08/2015, 07:11 PM   #12
jimrawr
Registered Member
 
jimrawr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Palm Beach County, FL
Posts: 1,887
Thankss for all the feedback guys, lots of good info. Im not too conserned with detritus piling up, at least this way I can see it and remove it. I have two tunzes plus the mag12 return which puts a lot of movement in the water as well. Even if I turkey baster the detritus, hopefully they it will get into the overflow/skimmer.

I agree tanks look better with sand, but ONLY when its clean and white, which seems RARE to me. Every tank almost always seems to have some dirtyness to the sand, which becomes an eye sore to me, even if others don't notice it.

So far it seems like not one person regretting going BB, and thats the feeling I get when speaking with people about it as well.


__________________
Tank Info: 75g, 40g Sump, AquaMaxx Skimmer, Two Tunze 6095, ATI 8x52", Bubble Magus Dosing Pump, Apex Controller, Tunze ATO.
jimrawr is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 02/08/2015, 07:19 PM   #13
wetWolger
Registered Member
 
wetWolger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Colorado
Posts: 1,955
Any thoughts on using something like this for a bottom:

http://www.designsbynature.net/produ...s/rocky-sheet/

I am going BB on my current build. Right now I need to finally decide if I am going with starboard (either black or white, not sure)...or the above thing.

The worries I have about the above thing is it could leach something (though seems unlikely since it is designed for aquariums)...or that it would look weird having rocks just sitting on top of something like that.

What would others do, black starboard, or the above sort of fake rock thing?


__________________
cheers,
jent d-_-b

Current Tank Info: 66gal = 32x24x20
wetWolger is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 02/08/2015, 07:25 PM   #14
whiteshark
Registered Member
 
whiteshark's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Bethlehem, PA
Posts: 3,024
Quote:
Originally Posted by wetWolger View Post
Any thoughts on using something like this for a bottom:

http://www.designsbynature.net/produ...s/rocky-sheet/

I am going BB on my current build. Right now I need to finally decide if I am going with starboard (either black or white, not sure)...or the above thing.

The worries I have about the above thing is it could leach something (though seems unlikely since it is designed for aquariums)...or that it would look weird having rocks just sitting on top of something like that.

What would others do, black starboard, or the above sort of fake rock thing?
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/sh...d.php?t=392144
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/sh...392144&page=20


__________________
Deep Blue 60 gallon cube: Setup in progress.
whiteshark is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 02/08/2015, 07:33 PM   #15
GOSKN5
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 686
Is the tank new or empty? If so you can paint the underside white or use a textured spray paint... on the outside of the tank of course...

Looks great, I scrape mine to keep clean..






GOSKN5 is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 02/08/2015, 07:43 PM   #16
ExpensiveHobby
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Baltimore Metro
Posts: 834
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimrawr View Post
Thankss for all the feedback guys, lots of good info. Im not too conserned with detritus piling up, at least this way I can see it and remove it. I have two tunzes plus the mag12 return which puts a lot of movement in the water as well. Even if I turkey baster the detritus, hopefully they it will get into the overflow/skimmer.

I agree tanks look better with sand, but ONLY when its clean and white, which seems RARE to me. Every tank almost always seems to have some dirtyness to the sand, which becomes an eye sore to me, even if others don't notice it.

So far it seems like not one person regretting going BB, and thats the feeling I get when speaking with people about it as well.
Just went barebottom TODAY after years of using sand. I found it was total pain using my Vortech pump as it would blow sand onto zoas and chalices then you have to turkey baster blast it off of them... You shift a rock and release trapped detritus, god knows how long that was building up. My plan is to crank up vortech each night for a few minutes to get any detritus into the column and hopefully into the overflows


__________________
-Custom 4'x3'x16" rimless display tank. 3 Ocean Revive T247's, BRS Dual Reactors, ASM G4XX Skimmer, Hydor Smart Wave System, JBJ A-T-O, BRS Dosers.
-Custom 6'x10"x10" fowlr, cadlights skimmer, Curr
ExpensiveHobby is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 02/08/2015, 07:48 PM   #17
Wazzel
Registered Member
 
Wazzel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Houma, LA
Posts: 4,743
I went bb three tanks ago and do not regret it at all. I have had better results in tanks with out sand.


__________________
Mark

Beware the light at the end of the tunnel. Sometimes it's a train.

Current Tank Info: 120, LED, Bare Bottom, SPS/LPS
Wazzel is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 02/08/2015, 09:20 PM   #18
swhobbie1
Registered Member
 
swhobbie1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: USA
Posts: 402
Quote:
Originally Posted by whosurcaddie View Post
Its not worth it. The amount of poop that piles up in a single day is enormous and becomes an eyesore. snails fish crabs all poop and it will all end up in one pile. If you don't mind siphoning every day then go for it otherwise your gonna be disappointed. Either that or having to siphon every day will get old fast.
+1

I also noticed that crabs looked like they had trouble walking across the glass.


swhobbie1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 02/08/2015, 10:40 PM   #19
hart24601
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 633
I went BB and love it. I really doubt I will ever setup a tank with sand again. Among other reasons I don't want to get sand under mag floats and scratch starfire. Not that it scratches more, just seems to be more apparent.


hart24601 is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 02/08/2015, 10:42 PM   #20
3yellowtangs
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Posts: 73
Love bb. Coraline or corals quickly cover the bottom


3yellowtangs is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 02/09/2015, 12:09 AM   #21
lhm nole
Registered Member
 
lhm nole's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 1,199
BB and love it .. Run 2 mp60 and a mp40 in my 8 ft 300 reef have occasional detritus I siphon in a suck every few days only takes a few minutes bottom stays very clean other than coraline growth..I can also put lots of flow in the tank without a sandstorm.. Only thing I dont like it does limit me on some types of wrasses


lhm nole is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 02/09/2015, 01:36 AM   #22
Typography
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: San Francisco
Posts: 41
My brother went bb, and he could crank his mp40s to the max and not worry about the holes in the sand.


Typography is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 02/09/2015, 07:46 AM   #23
Fade2White12
Registered Member
 
Fade2White12's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 271
The two reasons I wouldn't ever go BB are aesthetics and biodiversity.

Although there are BB tanks that look beautiful (like GOSKN5's above), I have yet to see a BB tank that doesn't look at least somewhat unnatural. Even with starboard, epoxied sand, textured paint, etc., up close they all look somewhat artificial. Don't get me wrong - if you can keep up with the detritus (which is a PITA, IMO) and scrape the bottom class clean from coralline, they can still look really nice. They just don't look "right" to my eye.

Also, I find just as much pleasure in the many different critters that inhabit our mini ecosystems as I do the corals or fish that I keep. Going BB means eliminating the sand-dwelling infauna that are not only beneficial, but interesting (and accurate) as well.


Fade2White12 is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 02/09/2015, 07:56 AM   #24
whosurcaddie
Registered Member
 
whosurcaddie's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 2,354
Quote:
Originally Posted by GOSKN5 View Post
Is the tank new or empty? If so you can paint the underside white or use a textured spray paint... on the outside of the tank of course...

Looks great, I scrape mine to keep clean..



How does your yellow corris do without the sand? Tank is beautiful by the way.


whosurcaddie is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 02/09/2015, 08:01 AM   #25
GOSKN5
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 686
Sorry I should have said... I have a 6"x4" or so place behind the rocks where I built an acrylic wall that holds 3" of sand... the coris and melanarus sleep there... works great

I wouldn't keep these wrasses in a barebottom without this... it's their security and comfort


GOSKN5 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On



All times are GMT -6. The time now is 03:05 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Powered by Searchlight © 2024 Axivo Inc.
Use of this web site is subject to the terms and conditions described in the user agreement.
Reef CentralTM Reef Central, LLC. Copyright ©1999-2022
User Alert System provided by Advanced User Tagging v3.3.0 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2024 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.