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Old 07/27/2015, 05:17 PM   #1
tnias
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Persistant Cyno Need Advice

I have a 150 gallon aquarium and 40 gallon sump. I upgraded from my 75 gallon in January. I moved all the rocks over but changed out the sand. I had persistent red cyno in my 75 gallon when I moved everything over. The 75 was started in 2010. My setup is as follows:

(3) Radions - (2) gen 1 and (1) gen 2 - Turn on 8:00am off 6:00pm
Alk - Between 10-11dkh
Calc - Between 450-475
Salinty - 35ppm
Dose Vodka, alk, and calc (BRS alk and calc)
Feed quarter size Rod's food
Instant Ocean Salt
(2) MP40's in anti-synch on opposite sides

Typically did a 20% water change once a month.

Fish have been happy and the corals have been thriving. Upped the water change maintenance to bi-weekly for the last 3 months. The red turned to a brown slime but did not reduce at all. While I am very patient and have been battling this issue for 8+ months I decided to try Chemi-clean, which I was iffy on because it has gotten mixed reviews, but I had used it once on my home tank without any issues. Well it nuked all of my corals and it doesn't look like the brown slime is any better.

Put the chemicals in Thursday morning, didn't quite have enough for full potency but it was close. Did a water change at 36 hours and not the full 48 hours they recommend. I have a service do the water changes at the office cause I don't have the time and Friday afternoon was his scheduled trip. The water change was 30%, 10% more than recommended. Came to the office on Sunday are noticed that half of my SPS were bare and my LPS were melting so did an emergency 15% water change but first blew off the rocks and sucked out all the brown slime I could. Today did another 30% water change to see if I could save what's left.

The brown slime between yesterday afternoon and today has already covered the sand completely on one side. At this point I am frustrated and can't figure out what is causing the issue because I feel the maintenance is good and the chemistry is spot on.

Does anyone have any advice? Below is a picture of the condition before chemi-clean. I thought since it had changed from red to brown with the increased water changes we were making progress but I don't think so.

[IMG][/IMG]


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Old 07/27/2015, 05:24 PM   #2
ncaldwell
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How any fish and other things are in the tank now? Sounds like with the corals dead it might be benificial to take out the live rock, give them an acid bath and start over with it all


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Old 07/27/2015, 05:26 PM   #3
RussIV
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test nitrate and phosphate.

if phosphate > nitrate then you have your problem.


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Old 07/27/2015, 05:42 PM   #4
CStrickland
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How red was it? Tbh it looks a lot like dinos in the pic.


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Current Tank Info: 3/2016 upgrade to 120g. Chalk bass, melanurus, firefish, starry blenny, canary blenny, lyretail anthias, engineer gobys, kole tang. Softies / LPS / NPS. <3 noob4life <3
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Old 07/27/2015, 08:18 PM   #5
Lsufan
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That looks like dinoflagellates to me too


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Old 07/27/2015, 09:14 PM   #6
tnias
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I don't have many fish.
2 clowns
2 cardinals
1 yellow tang
4 chromis

When it was red it was deep maroon. When we moved in January it took about a month to get the calc and alk stabilized since I was dealing with more water volume. Once those stabilized the red turned to brown slime.

Phosphates and nitrates don't register at all. It is tested twice a month and never shows results, I am sure because the slime is consuming it.

Ok so if it's Dino's what are the best options? This maintenance of this tank is pretty vigilant so it's frustrating that it is having this many issues and loosing all my corals just exacerbated the frustration? Oh and I use RODI water and I changed the membranes when we moved and replenish the resin once it reads 001.

I have (1) unique 50lbs large rock with an arch that is important to me other than that I could care less if I replaced the rest. I was planning on getting a shipment from Tampa Bay but until this slime is under control I don't want to risk spreading to new rock.


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Old 07/27/2015, 09:14 PM   #7
Buzz1329
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RussIV View Post
test nitrate and phosphate.

if phosphate > nitrate then you have your problem.
But Hanna Low PO4 test goes down to .01ppm while most nitrate tests (API, Salifert, etc.) don't measure below .2 ppm. So assuming you're phosphate is below .2 ppm, there seems to be no way to determine whether PO4 > N03.

If there is a way to make this determination, I'd (all seriousness aside) would like to hear how to do it.

Mike


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Old 07/27/2015, 09:27 PM   #8
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Oh boy, that *really* looks like dinoflagellates. There's an ongoing thread in this forum about the [deleted] suckers.

ivy


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28g cube, CF 105watts! Tunze 9001. Tiny frags: Euphyllia, blasto, ricordea and a rock flower anemone. Lost fish and inverts due to ongoing outbreak of dinoflagellates.

Current Tank Info: 28g aio, 105 watt CF lights, no sump or skimmer. 2 sexy shrimp, tiny frogspawn, tiny toadstool, tiny lps. Started Feb '15
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Old 07/27/2015, 09:38 PM   #9
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I have been reading that thread and it seems some do well with H2O2, other chemicals, no water changes, and lights out. If I loose all my corals then turning the lights out for 5+ days is really not an issue. I assume that the fish don't care and that the water won't become so toxic that it's an issue for them. Any thoughts?


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Old 07/28/2015, 01:53 AM   #10
Quiet_Ivy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tnias View Post
I have been reading that thread and it seems some do well with H2O2, other chemicals, no water changes, and lights out. If I loose all my corals then turning the lights out for 5+ days is really not an issue. I assume that the fish don't care and that the water won't become so toxic that it's an issue for them. Any thoughts?

I don't have any good advice unfortunately. I would certainly put in a big bag of carbon and some filter floss for insurance.
hth
ivy


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28g cube, CF 105watts! Tunze 9001. Tiny frags: Euphyllia, blasto, ricordea and a rock flower anemone. Lost fish and inverts due to ongoing outbreak of dinoflagellates.

Current Tank Info: 28g aio, 105 watt CF lights, no sump or skimmer. 2 sexy shrimp, tiny frogspawn, tiny toadstool, tiny lps. Started Feb '15
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Old 07/28/2015, 03:52 AM   #11
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This does not look like cyanobacteria growth. The mats tend to look like blistered mats or films. If you have a microscope take a look. Mat forming cyanobacteria should look like a tangle of long filaments.


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Old 07/29/2015, 09:49 PM   #12
tnias
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Since I have lost all my corals I turned off all the lights Tuesday morning and covered the tank on the visible side to block light. I peaked under the cover this afternoon and I am shocked that the brown is still very prominent. I have done lights out for 3 days in the past with great results. Does this further confirm that I am likely dealing with Dino's and not cyano?


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Old 07/30/2015, 06:25 AM   #13
heathlindner25
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Its dinos imo


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Old 09/15/2015, 01:47 PM   #14
tnias
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Just wanted to give an update and how it appears I beat the dino's.

First I shutoff my skimmer and vodka doser.
Second I stopped all water changes.
Third I cut the lights for almost a month. (since all of my corals had died except one duncan and 1 purple fan I figured it didn't matter if they didn't survive and I didn't want to take them home and risk spreading it to my home tank)

My nitrates rose from undetectable to .2, which was a strategy from another forum. At this time the rocks looked great and I restocked my CUC. What I didn't expect was an ammonia spike from all the die-off from the dino's and my base rock, since it was covered for so long, didn't have enough bacteria to counter the effects. Fortunately, with only 8 fish in 200 gallons the levels never rose high enough to stress the fish. Or at least I didn't perceive any stress. I did loose some of my CUC in the process and I am pleased that my (2) surviving corals survived the extreme lights out.

The lights have been back on full strength for the past 2-3 weeks and the sand and rocks look great so I think I beat the dino's. It's possible that just one of the strategies would have been sufficient but the all out guns blazing approach worked and I can now start restocking the tank.

Good luck if you are battling the same issues!


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Old 09/15/2015, 04:22 PM   #15
Billybatz9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tnias View Post
Just wanted to give an update and how it appears I beat the dino's.

First I shutoff my skimmer and vodka doser.
Second I stopped all water changes.
Third I cut the lights for almost a month. (since all of my corals had died except one duncan and 1 purple fan I figured it didn't matter if they didn't survive and I didn't want to take them home and risk spreading it to my home tank)

My nitrates rose from undetectable to .2, which was a strategy from another forum. At this time the rocks looked great and I restocked my CUC. What I didn't expect was an ammonia spike from all the die-off from the dino's and my base rock, since it was covered for so long, didn't have enough bacteria to counter the effects. Fortunately, with only 8 fish in 200 gallons the levels never rose high enough to stress the fish. Or at least I didn't perceive any stress. I did loose some of my CUC in the process and I am pleased that my (2) surviving corals survived the extreme lights out.

The lights have been back on full strength for the past 2-3 weeks and the sand and rocks look great so I think I beat the dino's. It's possible that just one of the strategies would have been sufficient but the all out guns blazing approach worked and I can now start restocking the tank.

Good luck if you are battling the same issues!
Did you cover the tank for a whole month? Or just keep the lights off and let ambient light reach the tank?


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Old 09/15/2015, 08:56 PM   #16
tnias
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I tried but the paper roll I put up kept falling so I just left it uncovered. It's an in the wall tank so the other sides are black anyways. Ambient light came in.


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